Diaste Posted May 21, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,627 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,366 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Da Puppers said: I feel like the resulting aftermath of the great tribulation will be final impetus for implementing the mark. Instead of "make America great again", I believe the motto will be "Make the world great again". The horrific destruction that takes placer during that time [such as never been before] will have worldwide support. But, I really think that there is a hidden agenda there. The A/C & false prophet will know that God's people, the elect of Israel, will never accept such an idolatrous policy, and will not take the mark, thus targeting them. Though few will probably agree with me, tho the church will experience the ravaging effects of tree G.T., I don't feel like they will be here to make a decision about the mark. The vials, which mentions judgment upon those that take the mark, are part of the fullness of the wrath of God. Those who refuse, will have to die, but they will be only from among those who were not saved at the time of the rapture. If the mark is the strong delusion that God sends to them (2 Thess 2), then all who are subject to that, even if it is by refusal, are experiencing the wrath of God, prior to when the fullness of that wrath shall come in the pouring out of the vials. One final note. Being that the mark will be implemented sometime during the reign of the beast (42 months), my personal opinion is that the time of the mark is equated to the 2300 evenings and mornings of Daniel 8. I.e., 1150 days, or about 110 days after the beginning of the 1260 days of Rev. 12, and will last until the end. A couple of key phrases: "transgression of desolation", and "... shall the sanctuary AND the host to be trodden under foot". The "host" could be referring to the people of God, or the city itself. Rev. 11 refers to Jerusalem being trodden down for 42 months. Whereas, Daniel 7 says that his people will be given into his hand for "time, times & the dividing of time". So, either way, whether the host refers to the city or the people of God, the maximum time could only be about 3.5 years. This would be less than 2300 days, but it would be more than 1150. What does that mean? It means that the sanctuary being trodden under foot has to be less than the 3.5 years that the people or the city will be downtrodden. Therefore the 2300 days prophecy, if it is an endtimes prophecy, [Daniel 8 indicates that several times by the use of the words "time of the end, etc "], can only mean 1150 days of time. It must mean that the 1150 days and the 1260 day prophecies either 1. Don't end at the same time, OR 2. Don't begin at the same time. I choose the latter. Blessings The PuP Pretrib? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted May 22, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,627 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,366 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 22, 2018 12 hours ago, Da Puppers said: No. Prewrath. Though few will probably agree with me, tho the church WILL experience the ravaging effects of the G.T., I don't feel like they will be here to make a decision about the mark. In a nutshell, the rapture will take place after the seals (the great tribulation) but before the mark is instituted, which will be institited after the trumpets->in this order: Seals, rapture, trumpets, mark. The PuP If I understand, the idea is all the seals are opened before the gathering, then the gathering, then all the trumpets sound before the mark of the beast is required, then the mark is forced on the people then the vials of wrath are poured out. Is that about right? If that is the case then I don't think it fits well with scripture. Associated with the end of the age and the coming of Jesus, and the gathering, there are 7 trumpets. Now there may be other trumpets throughout scripture but for us, in this time, there are only these coming trumpets and the all important last trump. This is true, and so we are gathered at the last trump of these 7 trumps or, when the 7th trump sounds the Lord appears in the clouds of the air, the dead are raised and the living are caught up to meet the Lord in the air. As we are told in scripture the 2nd coming of Jesus is not only the time we are gathered but also the Day of the Lord, on which day the wrath of the Lamb and God begins. In any scenario the dead are raised first and the living caught up before the wrath begins, as we are not appointed to wrath. Paul teaches us through Thessalonians these events occur at nearly the same time, as does Jesus in Matt 24, always associated with the trumpet and Paul says, "...at the last trump...", which would be the 7th of the 7 associated with the end of the age. If all that is true then the 7th trump must sound at the time the 6th seal is opened, as the 6th seal is the wrath of the Lamb. Therefore, the seals and trumps run in a concurrent fashion. As an aside, I'm not yet convinced the seals are opened in any particular way. It could be the seals are broken with a pause between each, of varying lengths. Or it could be the scroll is torn open all at once like an instant unveiling and events then take their course. It looks like the former but in any case they are opened in order from 1-7. Proof of this concurrence: Rev 6 12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For "the great day of his wrath is come"; and who shall be able to stand? Rev 11 15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah, and he will reign for ever and ever.” 16 And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17 saying: “We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty, the One who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and have begun to reign. 18 The nations were angry, "and your wrath has come." The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your people who revere your name, both great and small— and for destroying those who destroy the earth." So the 6th seal and the 7th trump are the harbingers of the day of the Lord and the wrath of God. Meaning seals and trumps are opened or sounded successively while the events of each are concurrent. I'm not saying the 1st seal is opened and the 1st trump sounds with the opening of the 1st seal. The trumps begin sounding at some point during the opening of the seals, however the Father has that planned. The only certainty I see is that the 6th seal and the 7th trump herald the wrath of God and the Lamb; with the 7th seal as a solemn moment of silence, sadness, regret, before the terrible duty of the horrors that must be unleashed on mankind, as through the bowls of wrath, the Father pleads with them that are left. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted May 22, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 22, 2018 2 hours ago, Diaste said: 17 For "the great day of his wrath is come"; and who shall be able to stand? 2 hours ago, Diaste said: 18 The nations were angry, "and your wrath has come." I'm not sure that these verses have to be seen as concurrent. The sixth seal is more of a "party's over, the plagues are coming" kind of statement. It announces the arrival of the plagues. That pronouncement is also declared in this verse: For this reason in one day her plagues will come, pestilence and mourning and famine, and she will be burned up with fire; for the Lord God who judges her is strong. Revelation 18:8 Famine doesn't come in one day but there is a day or time that it all begins. That's what the sixth seal declares. It announces that the time for the seven plagues of the seventh seal has arrived. I expect that the seventh seal is opened on the same day as the sixth and the plagues begin that day. The seventh trumpet statement indicates that God's wrath ends with the seventh plague (trumpet / bowl). The sixth seal announces the beginning of the plagues, the seventh trumpet announces their completion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adstar Posted May 22, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,399 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,307 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted May 22, 2018 On 1/11/2017 at 1:30 PM, idono said: Humanlike robot Jia Jia draws attention at World Robot Conference China's realistic robot Jia Jia can chat with real humans Human like robot – Jia Jia. It has facial expressions, can wink her eyes, and can speak. It makes me related it to Revelation 13:15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. I think the image of the beast could be something similar to this human like robot. What do you think? I do not think so.. A robot is not an image.. It is more like a statue that and speaks not an image that speaks.. People over complicate their interpretations of prophecy when all they need to do is read what it says on the surface and believe it.. An images that speak is what we see every day on our TV screen.. People speaking on TV fulfill what the Bible describes..It is the actual fulfillment of an image that speaks.. I believe the Anti-christ will be televised all over the world live and people will bow down before their TVs and in public before the larger public screens to worship him as god on earth.. Anyone doing so will be rewarded by receiving the mark of the beast and anyone discovered refusing to do so will be caught and beheaded.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted May 22, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,627 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,366 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Last Daze said: I'm not sure that these verses have to be seen as concurrent. The sixth seal is more of a "party's over, the plagues are coming" kind of statement. It announces the arrival of the plagues. That pronouncement is also declared in this verse: For this reason in one day her plagues will come, pestilence and mourning and famine, and she will be burned up with fire; for the Lord God who judges her is strong. Revelation 18:8 Famine doesn't come in one day but there is a day or time that it all begins. That's what the sixth seal declares. It announces that the time for the seven plagues of the seventh seal has arrived. I expect that the seventh seal is opened on the same day as the sixth and the plagues begin that day. The seventh trumpet statement indicates that God's wrath ends with the seventh plague (trumpet / bowl). The sixth seal announces the beginning of the plagues, the seventh trumpet announces their completion. Concurrency is more a refutation of the common idea of succession in breaking, sounding of the various events and judgements. Concurrent is meant to show the events and judgments occur in the same period of time. Not simultaneously, but both sets realizing their destiny, in the same alloted span of time. I don't see what else it could be as the wrath of God is said 'come' at the 6th seal (very specific) and the 7th trump (not as dramatically as Rev 6 but still eternally obvious) I agree the 6th seal will indeed allow the plagues to begin; wrath has come. The 7th trump is the harbinger of the appearance of Jesus, the gathering and wrath. Revelation 11 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. Here the time has come for wrath, judging the dead, rewarding the saints, prophets and defeating all opposition. The 7th trump certainly encompasses everything from taking back the earth, rewarding the righteous, to the valley of decision, and the time when the dead are judged. It's the great herald of Christ's return and the dawn of a new age of a 1000 years. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted May 22, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 22, 2018 2 hours ago, Da Puppers said: Who gives the beast from the earth, aka the false prophet, his power and authority to do miracles? A: The evil angel beast from the abyss (sea). He is the one who provides the supernatural fireworks for false prophet to deceive the world. That's why it always says that the signs are performed "in the presence of" the beast. He is integral to making it happen. 2 hours ago, Da Puppers said: You cannot show anywhere in revelation that the beast from the sea, the antichrist, does any kind of miracles, signs, or wonders. It is the beast from the earth that is the man of sin. I am going to be honest with you. I did not see this until I started this reply to you. The false prophet is the man of sin! Absolutely correct. Of the evil trio (dragon, beast, false prophet) only the false prophet is a human. The other two are evil angels. The interplay between the evil trio is that Satan gives his power, throne, and great authority to the angelic beast for the purpose of entering the false prophet (who speaks like a dragon) and performing signs and wonders with the support of the beast (in his presence) to thereby deceive those of the world. I've put together a short video on the evil trio and how they interrelate if you're interested. You can find it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted May 22, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Diaste said: Concurrency is more a refutation of the common idea of succession in breaking, sounding of the various events and judgements. Concurrent is meant to show the events and judgments occur in the same period of time. Not simultaneously, but both sets realizing their destiny, in the same alloted span of time. I don't see what else it could be as the wrath of God is said 'come' at the 6th seal (very specific) and the 7th trump (not as dramatically as Rev 6 but still eternally obvious) I agree the 6th seal will indeed allow the plagues to begin; wrath has come. The 7th trump is the harbinger of the appearance of Jesus, the gathering and wrath. Revelation 11 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. Here the time has come for wrath, judging the dead, rewarding the saints, prophets and defeating all opposition. The 7th trump certainly encompasses everything from taking back the earth, rewarding the righteous, to the valley of decision, and the time when the dead are judged. It's the great herald of Christ's return and the dawn of a new age of a 1000 years. We may have a different understanding of what "concurrent" means but I agree. The 7th plague (trumpet & bowl) is the return of Jesus and the beginning of the millennial kingdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted May 22, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,627 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,366 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 22, 2018 46 minutes ago, Last Daze said: We may have a different understanding of what "concurrent" means but I agree. The 7th plague (trumpet & bowl) is the return of Jesus and the beginning of the millennial kingdom. Just to clarify; not simultaneous, running in parallel, converging toward a single point, with successive elements. Except for the bowls, it seems they must stand alone at last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted May 23, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,627 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,366 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 23, 2018 On 1/10/2017 at 7:30 PM, idono said: Humanlike robot Jia Jia draws attention at World Robot Conference China's realistic robot Jia Jia can chat with real humans Human like robot – Jia Jia. It has facial expressions, can wink her eyes, and can speak. It makes me related it to Revelation 13:15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. I think the image of the beast could be something similar to this human like robot. What do you think? Greetings! This is an interesting topic. Horrifying and fascinating. From prophetic words we are going to see an inanimate object filled with life. That's beyond modern experience. But it's not a robot. And it's not a single idol. Isaiah 2 19 People will flee to caves in the rocks and to holes in the ground from the fearful presence of the Lord and the splendor of his majesty, when he rises to shake the earth. 20 In that day people will throw away to the moles and bats their idols of silver and idols of gold, which they made to worship. 21 They will flee to caverns in the rocks and to the overhanging crags from the fearful presence of the Lord and the splendor of his majesty, when he rises to shake the earth. 22 Stop trusting in mere humans, who have but a breath in their nostrils. Why hold them in esteem? A day of the Lord passage, exactly like Rev 6 and the 6th seal. But the important point is the people are throwing the idols of precious metals away. Notice, "...people will throw...their idols...which they made". Everybody has one. A personal image to a false god. Not a single image, not a robot. Rev 13 tells us the beast from the land will have the power to give life to the image of the beast, after he causes the people to make an image to the beast. This 'life' given to the image is 'spirit', so it's the spirit of life probably much like the life that's in everything. A robot does not have 'spirit'. A robot imitates 'spirit' through clever programming. But it's still just 1's and 0's and algorithms, not 'spirit'. Everyone cannot build a single image to the beast, "to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast". I heard this was the interpretation of this verse; that all the people would build a single giant image of the beast. Not everyone could have a hand in that. Then, how could that single image cause all who do not worship the image to be killed? From afar? By itself? The image doesn't kill, it causes the death of those who refuse to worship the image. It speaks and likely incites those who do worship the image to kill those who do not. So it's not telepathy. That means the image would be in proximity to those who do not worship the beast. That fits with Isaiah 2 and the personal icons they throw away when the Lord rises. Rev 9 speaks to the same personal individual icons made by their own hands. 20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: These icons to the beast are made from all materials and are the works of the hands of individual persons. There might be all the materials listed in a robot, but robots are not made entirely of any of the materials in Rev 9:20. But you see it's mankind here, in a singular sense. They 'repented not'; repentance is an individual act, as is the the 'works of their hands' in this case. So it's going to be hand made icons, by each person, and each icon given life by the false prophet, with the ability to speak and cause the death of those who refuse to worship the beast. I know this is truly shocking. Not even Outer Limits or Twilight Zone came up with something this horrifyingly terroristic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted May 23, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Diaste said: Everyone cannot build a single image to the beast, "to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast". Unless perhaps the image is a glorified, weaponized "pledge of allegiance" that everyone votes on when they get his mark. Who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. 2 Thessalonians 2:4 It doesn't make sense that the man of sin would force people to worship anything other than himself. I think the icons you mention would play more of a secondary / optional role. 1 hour ago, Diaste said: Not even Outer Limits or Twilight Zone came up with something this horrifyingly terroristic. You're showing your age. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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