SavedByGrace1981 Posted January 15, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 104 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,923 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 462 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/02/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/22/1953 Share Posted January 15, 2017 On 1/12/2017 at 9:01 AM, SavedByGrace1981 said: It's going to take a while because they'll have to figure out a way to 'sell' a new healthcare entitlement. 3 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: Well, they need to do what the Democrats refused to do. The Democrats refused to debate the Obamacare bill. They rammed it through with no debate and without reading what was in it. They didn't care what was in it. All that mattered to them was getting 'something' passed The legislative process is slow and the founders wanted it to be a slow process so that Congress could debate and hash things out. We do not and should not make laws impulsively the way Obama wanted to do it. We would not buy a car the way the Congress "bought" Obamacare, which was basically sight unseen. That depends. It's true if we wanted a car to actually function as a car. If we want one just to park in our driveway and look at, however, it suffices Obamacare was the way to say we had government healthcare - something shiny and superficially good to look at. It didn't matter that it did not work. Back 2010 there were other options, but the Democrats controlled all three levers of power and refused to entertain any suggested alternative to Obamacare. This, while the claim that Republicans didn't offer a plan. The Dems would not allow another plan to see the light of day. Now we get to see what our other options would have been and which of those will work the best and can be made even better. Unfortunately we cannot turn the clock back to 2010. Obama, the democrats, and the 'republican' justices on the Supreme Court have sufficiently entrenched the idea of government healthcare in the minds of the masses. It is now seen as a right. I agree that it will now be up to Trump and the republicans to come up with a plan. I do not see the democrats aiding in any meaningful way. Whatever the plan is, I'm pretty sure it will have to take the form of something along the lines of Social Security - complete with new taxes. It just cannot be done with insurance. Blessings, -Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted January 15, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 28 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,696 Content Per Day: 2.46 Reputation: 8,515 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Online Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted January 15, 2017 17 hours ago, other one said: I don't think people understand that the insurance industry is the most regulated industry in the US. Because of thier business practices back in the 60's it was made obvious that they could not be trusted. Each state is a little different, but in most states the premium limits are decided by state agencies and they have to have permission to raise the rates over a certain percentage each year and even then justify them. The insurance company starts out with a rather large sum of money and sell policies to individual people. As they pay out the expenses of peoples medical needs they use premiums to replace the money in the big pot that pays the medical bills. most states demand that they spend a certain percentage of premium money for those expenses. So there really is very little that can be saved by competition.... what would help would be across state lines so the pool of premium payments are scattered across a very large number of people of all ages and health so that each member would pay less each month.... but there may well be unintended consequences from all that also..... New York and California would be setting the rules for all insurance and I have a problem with democrats in those two states setting up those rules..... and me paying for illegal's. I think you'd be surprised. I mean yes in our current system your spot on, that is how they work and competition wouldn't change anything. However if health care costs were dropped, even by 50% I think it would be a different story, because if they dropped, more people would be able to afford medical care out of pocket and not need health insurance, and these people are the ones who can afford health insurance now. So basically dropping health care costs will eliminate a good portion of their current clientele. So, if they want to keep making money they will have to expand their market, to the people who previously couldn't afford insurance and still can't afford medical care, and to do that they are going to have to lower their rates, and since the customer pool is smaller work harder at being better than the competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedByGrace1981 Posted January 16, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 104 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,923 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 462 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/02/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/22/1953 Share Posted January 16, 2017 8 hours ago, The_Patriot2017 said: I think you'd be surprised. I mean yes in our current system your spot on, that is how they work and competition wouldn't change anything. However if health care costs were dropped, even by 50% I think it would be a different story, because if they dropped, more people would be able to afford medical care out of pocket and not need health insurance, and these people are the ones who can afford health insurance now. So basically dropping health care costs will eliminate a good portion of their current clientele. So, if they want to keep making money they will have to expand their market, to the people who previously couldn't afford insurance and still can't afford medical care, and to do that they are going to have to lower their rates, and since the customer pool is smaller work harder at being better than the competition. Reducing health care costs would be nice, but I cannot see it happening: 1. Simple supply and demand. Even now, there is a shortage of medical personnel - doctors, nurses, PAs, etc. And that is with the current level of demand. You cannot just 'churn out' new health care professionals - given the level of training they must have. It's going to take years to increase the supply. 2. Demand is already high - it will only increase once healthcare is 'free' to a sizable number of recipients. Finite supply with increased demand will only increase costs - not reduce them. Obama and the democrats have done a couple of things successfully, even though on the surface Obamacare appears to be a train wreck. First, in trying to 'fix' the current healthcare system, they did the equivalent of using a grenade to swat a fly. Rather than just address the number of uninsured, they decided to blow up the entire system. They've now left it to their political opponents to fix the broken system. Second, they created in the masses the idea that free healthcare is a right. It's become another entitlement. And once something becomes an entitlement, it never goes away Blessings, -Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted January 16, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 28 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,696 Content Per Day: 2.46 Reputation: 8,515 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Online Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted January 16, 2017 1 hour ago, SavedByGrace1981 said: Reducing health care costs would be nice, but I cannot see it happening: 1. Simple supply and demand. Even now, there is a shortage of medical personnel - doctors, nurses, PAs, etc. And that is with the current level of demand. You cannot just 'churn out' new health care professionals - given the level of training they must have. It's going to take years to increase the supply. 2. Demand is already high - it will only increase once healthcare is 'free' to a sizable number of recipients. Finite supply with increased demand will only increase costs - not reduce them. Obama and the democrats have done a couple of things successfully, even though on the surface Obamacare appears to be a train wreck. First, in trying to 'fix' the current healthcare system, they did the equivalent of using a grenade to swat a fly. Rather than just address the number of uninsured, they decided to blow up the entire system. They've now left it to their political opponents to fix the broken system. Second, they created in the masses the idea that free healthcare is a right. It's become another entitlement. And once something becomes an entitlement, it never goes away Blessings, -Ed most of those I agree with, but your ignoring the point I keep bringing up-the malpractice insurance, which the doctors HAVE to have to protect them from lawsuits-most of them frivolous. youd be surprised just how much of every dollar you pay the doctors, hospitals, etc goes to malpractice insurance, which actually ruins the point of a lawsuit anyway-if they make a mistake, and you sue them, they dont pay a dime-their malpractice insurance pays for it, then when their malpractice insurance goes up, so does the rates for everyone else, so all it does when someone sues a doctor-is punish everyone else. Now, if we found an alternative solution then lawsuits to hold doctors accountable-they can do without the malpractice insurance, which would drop rates drastically, while not even cutting into the doctors paychecks, or the cost of doing business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted January 16, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 595 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,027 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,769 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 16, 2017 and that's not even getting into the processes that everyone has to jump through to bring out a new drug..... and we all pay for that also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedByGrace1981 Posted January 16, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 104 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,923 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 462 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/02/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/22/1953 Share Posted January 16, 2017 10 hours ago, The_Patriot2017 said: most of those I agree with, but your ignoring the point I keep bringing up-the malpractice insurance, which the doctors HAVE to have to protect them from lawsuits-most of them frivolous. youd be surprised just how much of every dollar you pay the doctors, hospitals, etc goes to malpractice insurance, which actually ruins the point of a lawsuit anyway-if they make a mistake, and you sue them, they dont pay a dime-their malpractice insurance pays for it, then when their malpractice insurance goes up, so does the rates for everyone else, so all it does when someone sues a doctor-is punish everyone else. Now, if we found an alternative solution then lawsuits to hold doctors accountable-they can do without the malpractice insurance, which would drop rates drastically, while not even cutting into the doctors paychecks, or the cost of doing business. Your response prompted me to do some searching. Here's a couple things I found (one is from 2010 so not very recent; the other is from 2014): http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2010/09/07/the-true-cost-of-medical-malpractice-it-may-surprise-you/#368e244f9ccd http://truecostofhealthcare.net/malpractice/ I cannot say for sure whether or not the sources are unbiased - I just present them as is. The second article also presented the following chart: Blessings, -ED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted January 16, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 28 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,696 Content Per Day: 2.46 Reputation: 8,515 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Online Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted January 16, 2017 It's a bit biased...it's taking the doctors malpractice insurance and comparing to to healthcare as a whole (like comparing one person's wages against the entire hospital basically) sure the hospital will have their own, but in the large scheme of things, that matters little. But, if you cut it out the cost for the doctors themselves go down drastically, which will make it far cheaper. It may not be the entire solution, in fact it probably is not. But it would be a step in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted January 16, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 595 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,027 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,769 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 16, 2017 3 hours ago, The_Patriot2017 said: It may not be the entire solution, in fact it probably is not. But it would be a step in the right direction. and a very large step at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 When you remove cancer from the body, what do you replace it with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted January 18, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 28 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,696 Content Per Day: 2.46 Reputation: 8,515 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Online Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted January 18, 2017 23 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: When you remove cancer from the body, what do you replace it with? Knowing our government, a different type of cancer. Just saying.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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