apostasy question

[enoob57]

20 hours ago, The_Patriot2017 said:

To be the contrary one here, I believe yes, a believer can choose to walk away from their faith. I don't believe God will ever kick them out, but that doesn't mean we cant choose to leave. I feel personally like at one point in my life I did leave the walk, and came back, and the doctrine of free choice has always been a biblical concept all the way back from Genesis all the way to Revelation.

1 John 2:19 (KJV)

[19] They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

How do you answer this Scripture then?

[LadyKay]

I copy this from a reply I gave a day ago along with same topic. 

 

Speaking from my own experience. I think that things can and will happen in our lives that will shake our faith to the very core. In those times we can choice to cling to God or run from him  thinking that he has forgotten us.  For the ones who run I do not think that for all of them their salvation experience was less then what it should have been. But I think what may have happen is that they never grew in their faith. So when trouble came along, they became uprooted. This is why it is so very important for new Christians to do every thing they can to grow in their faith, and have the support of old Christians around them. 

[The_Patriot21]

3 hours ago, enoob57 said:

1 John 2:19 (KJV)

[19] They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

How do you answer this Scripture then?

I would have to do some more research, but one possibility is Paul was addressing a very specific set of people-because even from the standpoint one could walk away from their salvation, it doesnt mean that someone wasn't saved to begin with, and its possible the people Paul was referring to was never saved to begin with.

[Guest shiloh357]

On 1/13/2017 at 8:48 AM, creativemechanic said:

What do u think?

No.  An apostate is not an ex-Christian.  Truly born again Christians do not apostatize and we have no biblical examples of that happening. 

An apostate is someone who has acknowledge the truth, they assent to what the Bible says about Jesus, but choose to walk away from it.  They never embraced Christ.  So they are not really rejecting their faith. They never really had anything to lose as far as faith.  They might have had religion for a while, not biblical faith.

They are not necessarily rejecting it because they no longer think it is true.  They simply do not want what Christ offers, for whatever reason.  At that point, they become what the writers of Hebrews describes in Heb. 10:26-27.

[warrior12]

Romans 6King James Version (KJV)

⁴ Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

⁸ Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

When one is a believer some acts took place like the above.  Can this be undone.?

Also what is backsliding ?. I don't like that term. A believer can have a period of troubles and such, but that should not let a believer let the devil get strongholds to the point of not walking in Biblical ways.  

Romans 8King James Version (KJV)

³⁵ Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

[4LdKHVCzRDj2]

7 hours ago, enoob57 said:

1 John 2:19 (KJV)

[19] They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

How do you answer this Scripture then?

Well, it may be related to people who heard of the Gospel, believed in it or not, then they disappeared or decided to go another way or not.

 

If you take into account what Jesus said:

"And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

 

It makes you think.

[Willa]

Perhaps in depends on whether the person has come to the understanding by the Holy Spirit that they have no hope of being saved in their own power and are totally lost, and then clinging only to God's grace, totally surrendered to Him and worship Him in Spirit and in truth.  

Remember the story of the 10 lepers that Jesus healed?  Only one went back to Jesus, glorified God, and fell at the feet of Jesus in thanksgiving.  All of them had experienced a miracle and an encounter with God.  I wonder how many people want to use God for their own purposes instead of allowing themselves to be used by God and give God the glory.  But that doesn't mean that God is through with them; He may still bring them to a better understand just what they are and just Who God is.  But are we truly saved before we have abandoned our lives to God?  I don't know.  I can't say I wasn't a christian when I repented when I was in the 8th grade.  Certainly a lot of growth and teaching was needed.  But after I surrendered to God in 1970 there was no place else to go. 

Joh 6:63  It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.  Joh 6:64  But there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.  Joh 6:65  And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."

Joh 6:66  From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.  Joh 6:67  Then Jesus said to the twelve, "Do you also want to go away?"  Joh 6:68  But Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. Joh 6:69  Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

At some point we come to see that there are no alternatives and God's word becomes a living part of our lives.  We hunger for the spiritual food in scripture.  We totally trust in God's character as revealed in the Bible.  We stop questioning Him.

 

[gdemoss]

Those seeking to use 1 John to support their claim that one cannot fall away who is born again miss the point of Johns writing.  John was working to make sure that the ones he was writing too would not also fall away through the seduction of those who went out from them.

The warnings are all throughout scripture but due to certain doctrinal positions held people have to alter them so that they can keep their doctrines.  

Yes, a person who once believed and partook in the Holy Spirit can fall away.  The word for apostate is closely related to the word for divorce.  Not keeping their eyes on Christ but being seduced by the lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh and the pride of life people fall and never make it back.  It is tragic.

[enoob57]

We can be a lie never transformed to the truth...

Philippians 2:12 (KJV)

[12] Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

fear of The Lord while working through life in personal interaction with The Lord by obedience through action tranfers to perfect Love

1 John 4:18 (KJV)

[18] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

This is the sanctification/ this is the assurance... we do not do to get~ we simply are and do...  

Matthew 7:16 (KJV)

[16] Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

[17] Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

[18] A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

[19] Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

[20] Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Love, Steven

[missmuffet]

I can really see this today

Question: "Will there be a great apostasy / falling away during the end times?"

Answer: The Bible indicates that there will be a great apostasy during the end times. The “great apostasy” is mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:3. The KJV calls it the “falling away,” while the NIV and ESV call it “the rebellion.” And that’s what an apostasy is: a rebellion, an abandonment of the truth. The end times will include a wholesale rejection of God’s revelation, a further “falling away” of an already fallen world.

The occasion of Paul’s writing to the Thessalonians was to correct some of the errors concerning the end times that the believers had heard from false teachers. Among the falsehoods was that “the day of the Lord has already come” (2 Thessalonians 2:2). The Christians in Thessalonica were afraid that Jesus had already come, they had missed the rapture, and they were now in the tribulation. Paul had already explained the rapture to them in his first letter (1 Thessalonians 4:16–17). Paul writes his second letter to assure them that, contrary to what they had heard, and despite the persecution they were enduring, the “day of Christ” had not yet come.

In 2 Thessalonians 2:3, Paul makes it clear that the day of the Lord, a time of worldwide judgment (Isaiah 13:6; Obadiah 1:15), will not transpire until two things happen. First, the falling away, or great apostasy, must occur. Second, the “man of lawlessness” must be revealed, he who is called the “son of perdition,” also known as the Antichrist. Once this person makes himself known, the end times will indeed have come. Numerous speculations about the identity of the man of sin, beginning in the first century, have included Caligula, Caius Caesar, Mohammed, Napoleon, and any number of Roman popes. None of them were the Antichrist.

The man of lawlessness, according to 2 Thessalonians 2:4, is the one “will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.” Clearly, this has not yet happened; no one since Paul’s time has set himself up as God in the Jewish temple. Two thousand years have passed since the epistle was written, and the “day of the Lord” has not yet come. Paul assures us that it will not come until the falling away comes first.

The Greek word translated “rebellion” or “falling away” in verse 3 is apostasia, from which we get the English word apostasy. It refers to a general defection from the true God, the Bible, and the Christian faith. Every age has its defectors, but the falling away at the end times will be complete and worldwide. The whole planet will be in rebellion against God and His Christ. Every coup requires a leader, and into this global apostasy will step the Antichrist. We believe this takes place after the church has been raptured from the earth.

Jesus warned the disciples concerning the final days in Matthew 24:10–12: “At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold.” These are the characteristics of the great apostasy of the end times.

https://www.gotquestions.org/great-apostasy.html