soonsister Posted January 16, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 647 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 283 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/31/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 16, 2017 13 hours ago, missmuffet said: Is that necessary? Two baptisms? It is not even a salvation issue to be baptized. How so? Mark 16:16 "He who believes and is baptized will be saved, but he who does not believe will be condemned." Triune process of salvation. Belief, baptism, salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted January 16, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 16, 2017 1 hour ago, soonsister said: How so? Mark 16:16 "He who believes and is baptized will be saved, but he who does not believe will be condemned." Triune process of salvation. Belief, baptism, salvation. Baptism is the result of salvation, not the means of salvation. Notice in the scripture you quoted above. The sentence is split by a comma. What is common on both sides of the comma? That is what is important. He who believes and he who does not believe, making faith in Christ the key, not baptism. The sentence does not end with "he who does not believe and is not baptized will be condemned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonsister Posted January 16, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 647 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 283 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/31/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 16, 2017 12 hours ago, Gary Lee said: A question for those who believe they can lose their salvation. What can a true born again forgiven believer do, or not do, to lose their salvation? Is there more than one thing they can do to lose it? What can you do, if anything, to be reborn again? Or, is it a one time only event. If anyone witnesses someone "falling away" or leaving the church,their faith, and fellowship etc, and would use that as an example as someone loosing their salvation, that would be a very poor proof/evidence. I personally have questioned my own salvation a few times over the years, after seeing other Christians laboring greatly for the Lord, in missionary work, evangelism, ministry work, street witnessing, etc. I didn't seem, at the time, to measure up. Was I only a lukewarm believer. I felt as if I wasn't working hard enough. But I remember God's word , that my salvation is a gift, not earned, not worked for, or maintained by working by some standard created by guilt/man. As a believer of about four decades, I have witnessed many what I thought were committed new believers, very involved in the church, only to fall away after the novelty wore off. I don't think they lost their salvation, just never found it. As quoted by someone earlier, like the sower of the seeds, some fell on ground that never grew to full life, or as I believe, as a parable, salvation. When a lost individual somehow hears/reads the word and repents, he is changing how he used to think, and considers this new information contained in the word.( As I did). He may continue to absorb more and more. If, he did not come to a point, of complete faith, yet professed he believed, and was told he was saved, he was still lost, but did not receive it. I have seen it said, by well known and respected pastors, that a large percentage of their congregation were lost, yet thinking/believing saved. Tragic. I have heard, firsthand, testimony of a visiting pastor at my church, addressing this very issue. He was a pastor for many years BEFORE he was saved. His goal/ministry was dealing with this very issue. ...............If it was up to me, yes, I could lose my salvation. ............But, fortunately, it's not up to me. .......2Ti_1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. Thank You Jesus.......... Gary Lee In Him Who is Semper Fidelis No one comes to God save the Father calls them.Jesus tells us that. Jesus also said that no one who is in his hand, those that are saved, can ever be removed from that place of redemption and rebirth. His hand. Therefore no, no one can ever lose their salvation because they did not work to achieve it. God's grace bestowed it upon those whom he called to receive the gift of his grace. This doesn't mean people won't backslide. Fall away and enter into the world and live as they want to live. There's a scripture about the son that leaves his Father and wants his inheritance to spend while he's in his youth and full of vigor. He blows all the money and ends up eating with the pigs because he's flat broke. He goes back home to his father and seeing his son return, the prodigal son, the father rejoices! And calls for a celebration. However, the son's brother is not happy at all about this. That parable is to tell us that while we may walk away from the Father as one of his grace filled chosen saved in Christ, we can always choose to return. And the Father will rejoice. This is why the question about baptism was posed as far as those who backslide and then return to the path of righteousness. Or, right living. Baptism is a ritual cleansing that washes away the old self that was of the world. And after immersion, like a newborn emerges from the waters of their mothers womb, they are newborn. Re-born, from sin unto redemption. So those that fall away will often be baptized again just to renew the covenant they have with Father. And to wash away the worldly side track that they took when they backslid. No, no one can ever lose what God gave them. God is more powerful in his eternal knowledge of who would come to his son than those who believe they can walk away from the faith and that severs their relationship for all time. When Jesus said no one can take us from his hand I believe that means not even we can choose to leave. Think of the power you'd have if you could do that. What? Become unregenerate? Evict God's Holy Spirit? Tell God He was wrong when He called us to him so as to give us the grace of salvation? I think that would be our worldly ego that thinks we know better than the God that knew his chosen even before he created this world in which we dwell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonsister Posted January 16, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 647 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 283 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/31/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 16, 2017 17 minutes ago, OneLight said: Baptism is the result of salvation, not the means of salvation. Notice in the scripture you quoted above. The sentence is split by a comma. What is common on both sides of the comma? That is what is important. He who believes and he who does not believe, making faith in Christ the key, not baptism. The sentence does not end with "he who does not believe and is not baptized will be condemned. Yes, I noticed the comma. At least you didn't say faith has nothing to do with salvation. I read someone claim that once. It should be said that Baptism is essential since Christ commanded it. Everything else about it is personal opinion as the scriptures promote either or. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted January 16, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 16, 2017 49 minutes ago, soonsister said: Yes, I noticed the comma. At least you didn't say faith has nothing to do with salvation. I read someone claim that once. It should be said that Baptism is essential since Christ commanded it. Everything else about it is personal opinion as the scriptures promote either or. If you mean essential to salvation, no it is not. Jesus tells us to be baptized just as Jesus told us "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.", but how many of use are perfect? Quick answer, none. Does that mean we are not saved? Nope, it means we are not perfect. I am also sure you heard about the thief on the cross, how Jesus told him that "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.", yet he was not baptized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonsister Posted January 16, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 647 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 283 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/31/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 16, 2017 11 minutes ago, OneLight said: If you mean essential to salvation, no it is not. Jesus tells us to be baptized just as Jesus told us "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.", but how many of use are perfect? Quick answer, none. Does that mean we are not saved? Nope, it means we are not perfect. I am also sure you heard about the thief on the cross, how Jesus told him that "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.", yet he was not baptized. Well, to be honest, you don't know if the thief was baptised or not. He knew who Jesus was and knew also that he had no business being crucified as they were. Which means the thief knew of Jesus. We cannot know if John baptized the thief . So baptism regarding the thief is irrelevant. When Jesus told him that today he would be with Jesus in paradise, that's exactly what happens because Jesus has the awesome power to make that so. Jesus in essence baptized the thief with his anointing him with the promise of paradise after life and for his faith in Jesus. Because faith is all that is required . What I said was that Baptism is a part of salvation. Baptism is part of the process of being obedient unto Jesus commands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonsister Posted January 16, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 647 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 283 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/31/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 16, 2017 71 Bible Verses about Baptism And Salvation Acts 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. And of course remember that Jesus himself was Baptized by John. And after when he raised from being immersed in the waters God's Holy Spirit appeared. And the Father said of Jesus, this is my Son in whom I Am well pleased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted January 16, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, soonsister said: 71 Bible Verses about Baptism And Salvation Acts 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. And of course remember that Jesus himself was Baptized by John. And after when he raised from being immersed in the waters God's Holy Spirit appeared. And the Father said of Jesus, this is my Son in whom I Am well pleased. Let me approach it from this direction. Do you believe if someone who asks Jesus to forgive them, accepts salvation according to scripture, but is not baptized, yet dies right away, is not saved? Point is, salvation comes first, then obedience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonsister Posted January 16, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 647 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 283 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/31/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 16, 2017 28 minutes ago, OneLight said: Let me approach it from this direction. Do you believe if someone who asks Jesus to forgive them, accepts salvation according to scripture, but is not baptized, yet dies right away, is not saved? Point is, salvation comes first, then obedience. Are you seeking information? Coming at it from a different direction? I've never made any other point than that salvation comes first and then obedience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted January 16, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 16, 2017 Just now, soonsister said: Are you seeking information? Coming at it from a different direction? I've never made any other point than that salvation comes first and then obedience. No, not seeking information, but perhaps a little confused by your replies. When you replied with the last two verses, it appeared to me that you were placing baptism as a necessity to salvation, as in without baptism, one is not saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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