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If we do not understand that all our sins, including future ones are already forgiven at rebirth there will also be inconsistency in understanding the permanency of faith and “eternal salvation” (Heb 5:9) and the promise that “all things works together” for the “good” of the believer.

When we are “accepted in the Beloved” (Eph 1:6) at rebirth God has taken into account what He knows concerning our present and future sins, and when considering His “work” (Phil 2:13, Rom 8:28), there can be no unforeseen element interrupting our union with Him.

The foundation of spiritual growth in the faith is in the surety concerning the permanency of redemption, which is actual in the life of all believers, even if this is yet to be understood! The significant disadvantage will be the inability to maintain a “clear conscience” concerning the guilt of sin, and the inability to “lay aside the weight and sin” in order to avoid being “beset” by them (Heb 12:1).

-NC

 

 

Bold Entrance

“Let us draw near” (Heb 10:22). It is into the presence of the Father that believers are invited to come with boldness. Our salvation is, of course, the first thing; and next come love and service toward Him who saved us: publishing the good tidings to all whom we should reach. Third, we become occupied with the Father’s plan of salvation, doctrinally; and if we are instructed right, we learn to expect the coming again of the Lord from heaven, to rapture His Body, the Church.

But all these things may be true of us without our entering into that fellowship and worship into which the epistle to the Hebrews introduces us. To have boldness to enter in the Holy place . . . draw near with a true heart in fullness of faith, involves an active godliness which superficial study of the Scriptures may not beget in us.

It will not do for us (concerning spiritual growth, i.e. Heb 6:1, 2—NC) to stop at the Cross where Christ shed His Blood for our sins, and where we have peace through that Blood, security from Divine judgment. For His Blood has a heavenly ever-present power and efficacy connected with our acceptance and worship, and this is the peculiar message of Hebrews. If we do not become worshippers, really occupied with the things of the Father, with the praises as well as prayers which the Blood of the Son has made a delight unto the Father, at which heaven wonders and worships (1 Pet 1:12—NC), this great epistle to the Hebrews has failed to reach our hearts. For the immediate presence of the all-holly God, whose name is LOVE, is where the Lord Jesus is now sitting; whither every true believer is going; and into which, by the principle of faith, every believer is exhorted to enter with boldness now.

Let us draw near “with a true heart.” “The heart is deceitful above all things.” Millions pray, even using the name of the Lord Jesus and speaking of His sacrifice, whose hearts are not true (IMO, not a full understanding of all that salvation provides—NC). Repentance of sin has not broken them up. “A broken and a contrite heart, O God, Thou wilt not despise.” A true heart does not mean a heart that trusts in itself, but one which genuinely comes to a holy God.

Let us draw near “in full assurance of faith.” This does not mean that here will be no consciousness of unworthiness, but rather, a confidence in a faithful Father, Who is sure to bless one who is trusting in the shed Blood of His Son.

Let us draw near, “having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience.” This is a beautiful picture of the same deliverance as in Hebrews 9:14: “The Blood of Christ, Who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish unto God, cleanesth our conscience from dead works to serve the Living God.” We are told in chapter 12:24 that “we are come to the Blood of sprinkling that speaketh better than Able” (Able was the first to show a blood-sacrificed faith—NC).

True faith brings about this Divine action of “sprinkling,” that is, of so appropriating the effect of the Blood of Christ shed on our behalf as to relieve our burdened consciences because we see that our sins have been laid on our Substitute. There is no other deliverance from an evil conscience, that is, a conscience that is accusing us. God “sprinkles” such believing hearts by reckoning to them the value and power of Christ’s shed Blood; and the heart has rest.

- Wm R Newell

 

 

Portion of MJS devotional for Jan 16:

“The true hope makes all the difference to us in our ministry. Our expectations have been personally proven. It makes possible joy in the midst of sorrow, confidence in the midst of defeat. It changes our attitude toward those to whom we minister. We see them not as they are at the moment but as we know the Lord is going to make them. Then patience and forgiveness are easy, for we already see the Lord’s finished work. It changes our prayer for them.

“We ask not for some little progress or partial blessing for them but for the Lord’s complete victory. It changes our teaching ministry to them. Instead of fearfully giving a little more of God’s truth, we confidently declare all the counsel of God. There is ever before us the joy of the finished work which we know the Lord is going to accomplish.”

-A.M.

 

“BEING CONFIDENT OF THIS VERY THING, THAT HE WHICH HATH BEGUN A GOOD WORK IN YOU WILL PERFORM IT UNTIL THE DAY OF JESUS CHRIST” (PHIL. 1:6).

http://www.abideabove.com/hungry-heart/

Edited by Word-Sword
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6 hours ago, Word-Sword said:

If we do not understand that all our sins, including future ones are already forgiven at rebirth there will also be inconsistency in understanding the permanency of faith and “eternal salvation” (Heb 5:9) and the promise that “all things works together” for the “good” of the believer.

This is not very easy, no matter what someone says is going to be an argument, and it must be, and here in seeking discussion and not just looking to separate the goats from the sheep that follow the pastor. 

And perhaps the wolf in sheep's clothing. 

For my indroduction you may have correctly guess that I am not in agreement with the statement "that all our sins, including future ones are already forgiven", 

"At rebirth". 

In the past at deferent times I have followed people who agree or agree with a twist to your above statements, for they are two different seperate statements. 

By searching the scriptures I have come to understand that, a believer in JESUS CHRIST, when he sins he still remains in the eternal life, and Jesus is the eternal life. 

His sins they can not be counted against the eternal life. 

The eternal life was inputted to him " WHEN ?", 

I have put in quotes " WHEN?", Because, It is not the same for every person. 

The eternal life that is in Jesus Christ is inputted to anyone who believes , but not all the time. (!!!). 

(The children of the believing parent(s), are born with the eternal life).

It was inputted when he believes and in any state the believer is found at that moment. 

Unless someone renounce his faith in Jesus Christ, the eternal life remains in him. 

I did not mention how sin can effect the light of Jesus in the life of a believer, and I will, but this state of being while effects and put darkness in the heart of the believer, he still remains in the inputted eternal life of Jesus Christ. 

(We know that does not  work for the devil, for Jesus provided redemption only for man, been in the form of man not only when he was conceived,  but also  when  he lived and  died. 

As Paul said, the first man lead us undo death, and the second Adam, the one from above lead us into his eternal life. 

Adam gave what he had and Jesus gives what he has, 

The parent(s) gave before the Cross what they had to their children, 

And the parent (s), give what they have to their children after the Cross. 

Before they did not have life, and they can not give life. 

The believer parent who does not have death , can not give death, by what the parent has gives , if life then gives life. .

(You can not harvest grapes out of thorns, and thorns out of grapes), 

And the life is above death, even if one parent only has life, the life pass to the children. 

The Jewish before they had righteousness of the sircoumsission which they pass to their children, but they did not have the life of their God in them , only the life of the Law. But that it mantains later on, on an individual basis. They still were seperated from God. 

Regarding Sins , it is made very clearly , that we are accountable for our sins, and it does effect not only our state with the Jesus, but if we persist Jesus Christ may put us on the list, for punishment that leads to repentance, and discipline us according to each one needs. 

Hope no one cares to bother some of his very precious ones. 

Because he want turn his back to them. 

We need to repent, acknowledge it to our selfs , and look towards to Rehabilitation. 

As the scripture says, if you have repented and have changed, you are to be commented by Jesus ,there is nothing to forgive anymore as to avoid (punishment, or discipline). 

Is not a game to say " forgive me, just to avoid the discipline if Jesus Christ, 

You can not tell him (command him),  how to manage you and bring you around. 

We must live with the fear of Our Judge and our LIFE Giver. 

Our dues to the society and others is another matter we have the general deterance and specific deterance and the family and civil law. 

Jesus is not a happy warrior to be in a harry to repay us for our sins , not at all, he waits out of love, and may we repent as not to have in our life the fellowship of evil spirits, and our anger, and revenge, and so on. 

But to have the fellowship of the holy Spirit more abanduntly . 

Thank for your post.

 

Quote

 

When we are “accepted in the Beloved” (Eph 1:6) at rebirth God has taken into account what He knows concerning our present and future sins, and when considering His “work” (Phil 2:13, Rom 8:28), there can be no unforeseen element interrupting our union with Him.

The foundation of spiritual growth in the faith is in the surety concerning the permanency of redemption, which is actual in the life of all believers, even if this is yet to be understood! The significant disadvantage will be the inability to maintain a “clear conscience” concerning the guilt of sin, and the inability to “lay aside the weight and sin” in order to avoid being “beset” by them (Heb 12:1).

-NC

 

 

Bold Entrance

“Let us draw near” (Heb 10:22). It is into the presence of the Father that believers are invited to come with boldness. Our salvation is, of course, the first thing; and next come love and service toward Him who saved us: publishing the good tidings to all whom we should reach. Third, we become occupied with the Father’s plan of salvation, doctrinally; and if we are instructed right, we learn to expect the coming again of the Lord from heaven, to rapture His Body, the Church.

But all these things may be true of us without our entering into that fellowship and worship into which the epistle to the Hebrews introduces us. To have boldness to enter in the Holy place . . . draw near with a true heart in fullness of faith, involves an active godliness which superficial study of the Scriptures may not beget in us.

It will not do for us (concerning spiritual growth, i.e. Heb 6:1, 2—NC) to stop at the Cross where Christ shed His Blood for our sins, and where we have peace through that Blood, security from Divine judgment. For His Blood has a heavenly ever-present power and efficacy connected with our acceptance and worship, and this is the peculiar message of Hebrews. If we do not become worshippers, really occupied with the things of the Father, with the praises as well as prayers which the Blood of the Son has made a delight unto the Father, at which heaven wonders and worships (1 Pet 1:12—NC), this great epistle to the Hebrews has failed to reach our hearts. For the immediate presence of the all-holly God, whose name is LOVE, is where the Lord Jesus is now sitting; whither every true believer is going; and into which, by the principle of faith, every believer is exhorted to enter with boldness now.

Let us draw near “with a true heart.” “The heart is deceitful above all things.” Millions pray, even using the name of the Lord Jesus and speaking of His sacrifice, whose hearts are not true (IMO, not a full understanding of all that salvation provides—NC). Repentance of sin has not broken them up. “A broken and a contrite heart, O God, Thou wilt not despise.” A true heart does not mean a heart that trusts in itself, but one which genuinely comes to a holy God.

Let us draw near “in full assurance of faith.” This does not mean that here will be no consciousness of unworthiness, but rather, a confidence in a faithful Father, Who is sure to bless one who is trusting in the shed Blood of His Son.

Let us draw near, “having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience.” This is a beautiful picture of the same deliverance as in Hebrews 9:14: “The Blood of Christ, Who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish unto God, cleanesth our conscience from dead works to serve the Living God.” We are told in chapter 12:24 that “we are come to the Blood of sprinkling that speaketh better than Able” (Able was the first to show a blood-sacrificed faith—NC).

True faith brings about this Divine action of “sprinkling,” that is, of so appropriating the effect of the Blood of Christ shed on our behalf as to relieve our burdened consciences because we see that our sins have been laid on our Substitute. There is no other deliverance from an evil conscience, that is, a conscience that is accusing us. God “sprinkles” such believing hearts by reckoning to them the value and power of Christ’s shed Blood; and the heart has rest.

- Wm R Newell

 

 

Portion of MJS devotional for Jan 16:

“The true hope makes all the difference to us in our ministry. Our expectations have been personally proven. It makes possible joy in the midst of sorrow, confidence in the midst of defeat. It changes our attitude toward those to whom we minister. We see them not as they are at the moment but as we know the Lord is going to make them. Then patience and forgiveness are easy, for we already see the Lord’s finished work. It changes our prayer for them.

“We ask not for some little progress or partial blessing for them but for the Lord’s complete victory. It changes our teaching ministry to them. Instead of fearfully giving a little more of God’s truth, we confidently declare all the counsel of God. There is ever before us the joy of the finished work which we know the Lord is going to accomplish.”

-A.M.

 

“BEING CONFIDENT OF THIS VERY THING, THAT HE WHICH HATH BEGUN A GOOD WORK IN YOU WILL PERFORM IT UNTIL THE DAY OF JESUS CHRIST” (PHIL. 1:6).

http://www.abideabove.com/hungry-heart/

 

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13 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

The eternal life that is in Jesus Christ is inputted to anyone who believes , but not all the time. (!!!). 

Hi YCF - Thanks for your meaningful reply! I'm not certain what you mean by "not all the time."

38 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Unless someone renounce his faith in Jesus Christ, the eternal life remains in him. 

 We have a disagreement here Friend in Christ. I believe Scripture teaches one cannot loose faith, for it is as permanent as that which came "through" it--salvation.

42 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

This is not very easy, no matter what someone says is going to be an argument, and it must be, and here in seeking discussion and not just looking to separate the goats from the sheep that follow the pastor. 

And perhaps the wolf in sheep's clothing. 

For my indroduction you may have correctly guess that I am not in agreement with the statement "that all our sins, including future ones are already forgiven", 

"At rebirth". 

In the past at deferent times I have followed people who agree or agree with a twist to your above statements, for they are two different seperate statements. 

By searching the scriptures I have come to understand that, a believer in JESUS CHRIST, when he sins he still remains in the eternal life, and Jesus is the eternal life. 

His sins they can not be counted against the eternal life. 

The eternal life was inputted to him " WHEN ?", 

I have put in quotes " WHEN?", Because, It is not the same for every person. 

The eternal life that is in Jesus Christ is inputted to anyone who believes , but not all the time. (!!!). 

(The children of the believing parent(s), are born with the eternal life).

It was inputted when he believes and in any state the believer is found at that moment. 

Unless someone renounce his faith in Jesus Christ, the eternal life remains in him. 

This is as far as I can reply to your post from which we might both benefit because our difference in beliefs concerning the eternal aspect of faith and salvation are not the same, but that'a okay, because regardless of our accepted doctrine, love to one another is always the priority.

Blessings!

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32 minutes ago, Yowm said:

I think some have trouble grasping the two facts of  Jesus dying for and forgiving our sins past present and future, then they assume that such things as repentance and confessing our sins are no longer needed for our walk...some have a hard time walking and chewing gum at the same time. Both are true.

Hi Yowm - Thanks for your reply and comment! I agree concerning the significance of understanding what you are sharing. As we maintain a heart and mind of perpetual repentance, it is more of an act (loose desire for the sin) which confirms its presence in our lives. We should also maintain confessing to God our wrongs when we are aware of them, but neither actually effects new forgiveness, which is already there, due to Christ's efficacy, and not anything we can do.

"He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins" because He has already done it for believers! We can and should admit (confess) our sins to God when we are made aware of them, but this is for the conscious awareness that we are always forgiven at all times. Just my opinion.

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When we accept Jesus as our Saviour we are washed clean and yes our sins past, present and future are under the blood of the Lamb, however just because our sins are under the blood and forgiven does not mean that we are not to ask to be forgiven each time or each day for the wrong (sin) we have committed. The Holy Spirit convicts us of that wrong and like obedient children who have gone against our parents' will, we go to the Father and ask for forgiveness. Is that not what Jesus taught us when He said to pray....Our Father who art in a Heaven....

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1 hour ago, Littlelambseativy said:

When we accept Jesus as our Saviour we are washed clean and yes our sins past, present and future are under the blood of the Lamb, however just because our sins are under the blood and forgiven does not mean that we are not to ask to be forgiven each time or each day for the wrong (sin) we have committed. The Holy Spirit convicts us of that wrong and like obedient children who have gone against our parents' will, we go to the Father and ask for forgiveness. Is that not what Jesus taught us when He said to pray....Our Father who art in a Heaven....

Hi LLEI - A kid'l eat ivy too! I remember that song from childhood, like it. Thanks for your reply, and my understanding of Matthew 6:12. i.e. forgive us as we forgive others, is that this is not to show that we are forgiven our sins by forgiving others (as though we can procure our own efficacy for guilt), but an indication that we have been forgiven by God in the showing of forgiveness to others, for those who forgive not, make a show that they have yet to experience the forgiveness of God in their mind and hearts.

Forgiveness of our sins from God can only derive from Christ’s expiation, which solely first “condemns sin” (Rom 8:3), then procures “forgiveness” solely “through His Blood” (Eph 1:7; Col 1:14).

God bless and God be blessed!

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When we forgive those who have done us wrong that is for us, for our mental and physical well being. The burden is no longer ours. But the Bible in Jesus words tells us to say to the Father, forgive me as I forgave the one who wronged me.

If I cannot forgive the one who wronged/sinned against me first, how can God forgive me? Are these the sins which will be brought before us at the white throne judgement? For surely we will be judged.

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1 hour ago, Littlelambseativy said:

When we forgive those who have done us wrong that is for us, for our mental and physical well being. The burden is no longer ours. But the Bible in Jesus words tells us to say to the Father, forgive me as I forgave the one who wronged me.

If I cannot forgive the one who wronged/sinned against me first, how can God forgive me? Are these the sins which will be brought before us at the white throne judgement? For surely we will be judged.

True, all are already judged by their lives in this world, and the next life will just be the carrying out the giving to each accordingly. To the believer, varying eternal rewards; the unbeliever, eternal damnation with varying levels of punishment.

A good example are those whom God knows will be unbelievers in this life, who are "condemned already" (Jhn 3:18), those who believe which are born again already have "eternal life."

Edited by Word-Sword
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On 1/16/2017 at 10:07 AM, Word-Sword said:

If we do not understand that all our sins, including future ones are already forgiven at rebirth there will also be inconsistency in understanding the permanency of faith and “eternal salvation” (Heb 5:9) and the promise that “all things works together” for the “good” of the believer.

When we are “accepted in the Beloved” (Eph 1:6) at rebirth God has taken into account what He knows concerning our present and future sins, and when considering His “work” (Phil 2:13, Rom 8:28), there can be no unforeseen element interrupting our union with Him.

The foundation of spiritual growth in the faith is in the surety concerning the permanency of redemption, which is actual in the life of all believers, even if this is yet to be understood! The significant disadvantage will be the inability to maintain a “clear conscience” concerning the guilt of sin, and the inability to “lay aside the weight and sin” in order to avoid being “beset” by them (Heb 12:1).

-NC

 

 

Bold Entrance

“Let us draw near” (Heb 10:22). It is into the presence of the Father that believers are invited to come with boldness. Our salvation is, of course, the first thing; and next come love and service toward Him who saved us: publishing the good tidings to all whom we should reach. Third, we become occupied with the Father’s plan of salvation, doctrinally; and if we are instructed right, we learn to expect the coming again of the Lord from heaven, to rapture His Body, the Church.

But all these things may be true of us without our entering into that fellowship and worship into which the epistle to the Hebrews introduces us. To have boldness to enter in the Holy place . . . draw near with a true heart in fullness of faith, involves an active godliness which superficial study of the Scriptures may not beget in us.

It will not do for us (concerning spiritual growth, i.e. Heb 6:1, 2—NC) to stop at the Cross where Christ shed His Blood for our sins, and where we have peace through that Blood, security from Divine judgment. For His Blood has a heavenly ever-present power and efficacy connected with our acceptance and worship, and this is the peculiar message of Hebrews. If we do not become worshippers, really occupied with the things of the Father, with the praises as well as prayers which the Blood of the Son has made a delight unto the Father, at which heaven wonders and worships (1 Pet 1:12—NC), this great epistle to the Hebrews has failed to reach our hearts. For the immediate presence of the all-holly God, whose name is LOVE, is where the Lord Jesus is now sitting; whither every true believer is going; and into which, by the principle of faith, every believer is exhorted to enter with boldness now.

Let us draw near “with a true heart.” “The heart is deceitful above all things.” Millions pray, even using the name of the Lord Jesus and speaking of His sacrifice, whose hearts are not true (IMO, not a full understanding of all that salvation provides—NC). Repentance of sin has not broken them up. “A broken and a contrite heart, O God, Thou wilt not despise.” A true heart does not mean a heart that trusts in itself, but one which genuinely comes to a holy God.

Let us draw near “in full assurance of faith.” This does not mean that here will be no consciousness of unworthiness, but rather, a confidence in a faithful Father, Who is sure to bless one who is trusting in the shed Blood of His Son.

Let us draw near, “having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience.” This is a beautiful picture of the same deliverance as in Hebrews 9:14: “The Blood of Christ, Who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish unto God, cleanesth our conscience from dead works to serve the Living God.” We are told in chapter 12:24 that “we are come to the Blood of sprinkling that speaketh better than Able” (Able was the first to show a blood-sacrificed faith—NC).

True faith brings about this Divine action of “sprinkling,” that is, of so appropriating the effect of the Blood of Christ shed on our behalf as to relieve our burdened consciences because we see that our sins have been laid on our Substitute. There is no other deliverance from an evil conscience, that is, a conscience that is accusing us. God “sprinkles” such believing hearts by reckoning to them the value and power of Christ’s shed Blood; and the heart has rest.

- Wm R Newell

 

 

Portion of MJS devotional for Jan 16:

“The true hope makes all the difference to us in our ministry. Our expectations have been personally proven. It makes possible joy in the midst of sorrow, confidence in the midst of defeat. It changes our attitude toward those to whom we minister. We see them not as they are at the moment but as we know the Lord is going to make them. Then patience and forgiveness are easy, for we already see the Lord’s finished work. It changes our prayer for them.

“We ask not for some little progress or partial blessing for them but for the Lord’s complete victory. It changes our teaching ministry to them. Instead of fearfully giving a little more of God’s truth, we confidently declare all the counsel of God. There is ever before us the joy of the finished work which we know the Lord is going to accomplish.”

-A.M.

 

“BEING CONFIDENT OF THIS VERY THING, THAT HE WHICH HATH BEGUN A GOOD WORK IN YOU WILL PERFORM IT UNTIL THE DAY OF JESUS CHRIST” (PHIL. 1:6).

http://www.abideabove.com/hungry-heart/

Hi WAS, I keep reviewing your post, it is not easy to connect, without having a lot of background information, so it takes time, to reach the port of mutual understanding, and I am not going to say Amen, just to get the chance to pour out my mind. 

This a post that make me think, the scripture says that Jesus took away the Sins of the WORLD. 

We must keep this in mind, no matter how uncomfortable, that, makes us feel, and we would rather turn a blind eye, or suggest some other meaning that excludes part of the WORLD. 

He was made the propitiation for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD. 

Jesus took away the Sins of the World. 

And at the same time the one who took the sins of the world upon himself, or was made the propitiation of the sins of the world, quess what , he is also the JUDGE of the Whole World. 

Not only in our countries but in every country of the world, the principal not to punish someone for the same offense twice is a fundamental principle in the Justice system. 

For making this comment , I am suggesting that our JUDGE , the one who sits on the Throne in Heaven,

(for they are many judges , and I guess if I stretch it a little bit, everyone one of us are some kind of a judge)

He is not going to punish someone for his sins , because he himself has received the punishment of the sins of the one he is about to judge. 

So if Jesus cannot send someone to Hell as a punishment for sins, 

Whom is he going to judge to Hell and for what reason? 

Maybe because of disobedience not to believe that Jesus is the Christ. 

And to be fair if it is so someone must have heard about the Gospel first in a fair way , so he can be judge by it. 

What about the people who never heard the Gospel, and what about those who die before the Gospel. 

I want to get to other part of your post, that is about a guilty conscience, and appearing before the Throne of Grace. 

How does a guilty conscience has anything to do for having an audition before the Throne of Grace. 

Who is sitting on the Throne of Grace. 

What does it mean appearing before the Throne of Grace and for what reason. 

Sorry about the questions. 

Blessings always 

 

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35 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Hi WAS, I keep reviewing your post, it is not easy to connect, without having a lot of background information, so it takes time, to reach the port of mutual understanding, and I am not going to say Amen, just to get the chance to pour out my mind. 

This a post that make me think, the scripture says that Jesus took away the Sins of the WORLD. 

We must keep this in mind, no matter how uncomfortable, that, makes us feel, and we would rather turn a blind eye, or suggest some other meaning that excludes part of the WORLD. 

He was made the propitiation for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD. 

Jesus took away the Sins of the World. 

Hi YCF - Thanks for your reply and questions, but we are of a different understanding concerning the phrase "takes away the sin of the world," which to me means that Jesus was making salvation available to the rest of the world, not just the Jews.

Blessings!

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