HAZARD Posted January 16, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 320 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 6,830 Content Per Day: 0.84 Reputation: 3,570 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/16/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted January 16, 2017 The leader of the Scottish Anglican church has said he was “deeply distressed” at the “widespread offence” caused by a reading from the Qur’an at a service to mark the feast of the Epiphany at St Mary’s Cathedral in Glasgow. David Chillingworth, bishop of St Andrews, Dunkeld and Dunblane, and primus of the Scottish Episcopal Church, said in a statement: “We also deeply regret the widespread abuse which has been received by the cathedral community.” He has launched a review of interfaith work. His comments followed a row over the inclusion in the service of passages from the Qur’an read in Arabic from the cathedral’s lectern by a local Muslim student. The cathedral said it was part of efforts to build relationships between Christians and Muslims in Glasgow. The student, Madinah Javed, 19, read from the book of Maryam, which tells the story of Jesus’s birth. It includes the Islamic teaching that Jesus was not the son of God. Muslims, however, revere Jesus as a prophet. The reading triggered a backlash. The former bishop of Rochester, Michael Nazir-Ali, said: “Christians should know what their fellow citizens believe and this can include reading the Qur’an for themselves, whether in the original or in translation. This is not, however, the same thing as having it read in church in the context of public worship. The authorities of the Scottish Episcopal Church should immediately repudiate this ill-advised invitation and exercise appropriate discipline for those involved.” The cathedral said it became the target of offensive messages on social media, which it reported to the police. Last week, a Police Scotland spokesman said: “We can confirm we are investigating reports of offensive comments made towards St Mary’s Episcopal Cathedral in Glasgow and inquiries are ongoing. Police Scotland will not tolerate any form of hate and encourages all communities to work together to ensure no one feels threatened or marginalised.” The cathedral’s provost, Kelvin Holdsworth, defended the reading, saying similar events had “happened a number of times in the past in this and in other churches, and have led to deepening friendships locally, to greater awareness of the things we hold in common and to dialogue about the ways in which we differ”. The statement from the bishop said the Scottish Episcopal Church had a long commitment to interfaith work. “Over many years, we have sought to develop friendship, understanding and mutual respect between our Christian faith and the other great world religions,” he said Chillingworth added: “Those who seek to work in the area of interfaith relationships must weigh carefully whether the choices which they make are appropriate or otherwise. In today’s world, those judgments must give careful consideration to good relationships which have been carefully nurtured over many years in a local context. They must also weigh carefully the way in which national and international issues shape perceptions of what is appropriate or inappropriate. “The decisions which have led to the situation in St Mary’s Cathedral are a matter for the provost and the cathedral community but the Scottish Episcopal Church is deeply distressed at the widespread offence which has been caused. We also deeply regret the widespread abuse which has been received by the cathedral community.” Chillingworth said the church would bring together “all those who are involved in the development of interfaith relations ... to explore how, particularly in the area of worship, this work can be carried forward in ways which will command respect”. http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/bishop-distressed-by-row-following-quran-reading-at-cathedral/ar-AAlT7MY?li=AA5249&ocid=spartanntp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted January 16, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 16, 2017 7 minutes ago, HAZARD said: Police Scotland will not tolerate any form of hate and encourages all communities to work together to ensure no one feels threatened or marginalised. More PC nonsense. When will Scotland wake up? (or is it already too late?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonsister Posted January 17, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 647 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 283 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/31/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 17, 2017 The Bishop is offended by the reaction because he's ignorant about Islam. The attempt of ecumenism is fraud. And that he'd rather concede to Muslims entering the cathedral rather than hoping to save their souls from their false god and religion is what is distressing. Islam does not recognize Isa, which is the name for Jesus in Islam, as the divine son of God. Allowing a Muslim to read from the Quran during the feast of the epiphany is blasphemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Churchmouse Posted January 17, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 91 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,216 Content Per Day: 0.80 Reputation: 1,014 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/29/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/02/1958 Share Posted January 17, 2017 8 minutes ago, soonsister said: The Bishop is offended by the reaction because he's ignorant about Islam. The attempt of ecumenism is fraud. And that he'd rather concede to Muslims entering the cathedral rather than hoping to save their souls from their false god and religion is what is distressing. Islam does not recognize Isa, which is the name for Jesus in Islam, as the divine son of God. Allowing a Muslim to read from the Quran during the feast of the epiphany is blasphemy. He's offended that others don't dismiss God in the same fashion he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted January 17, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I read a report that the passage from the Koran that was spoken was the one that denied God having a son. In other words, the Muslim(s) read the one passage that directly defames Christianity. That this means nothing to the bishop is very, very telling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted January 17, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,061 Content Per Day: 7.55 Reputation: 27,803 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 17, 2017 this should not be a surprise to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonsister Posted January 17, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 647 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 283 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/31/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 17, 2017 Islam's Koranic sura, verses, refer to people of the book. Which would be Christians and Jews. The ideal way to understand the original writings in the Koran, or Qur'an, is to know the Arabic language. Because prior to Muhammad's death Islam was an oral tradition. He dictated what became the Qur'an to scribes in his service before his death. And the Koran/Qur'an itself became a book after. Because Muhammad was illiterate. Translation from the Arabic tends to lose a bit in the full textual import of the sura/scriptures. As such scholars and Imam's, spiritual leaders, can interpret the verses differently though the full context and import in their message remains. Jesus was referred to as Isa in the Qur'an. This source has various translations afforded Quote Sura/Verse 2:133 https://quran.com/search?q=son+of+god O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah aught but the truth. The Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, ("Be!" - and he was) which He bestowed onMaryam (Mary) and a spirit (Ruh) created by Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: "Three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allah is (the only) One Ilah (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs. Further, Imam's will teach that to claim Allah had a son is to belittle Allah. If you can bear the heavy accented English of the Imam in the short You Tube video entitled, Allah has no son nor a wife - Dr Zakir Naik , you will see there is an adamant passion behind refuting the claim that God, which is in Arabic translated as Allah, has a son. And it isn't like there are different denominations in Islam wherein group, say Sunni, will disagree and accept Isa is the son of the Muslim's god. It is and must be unanimous in Islam, because there no altering the text of the Koran being it is believed to have been recited to Muhammad directly by Allah himself, that Allah has no son. Also, as I mentioned there is a movement in the world that hopes to say that Christians and Jews worship the same God. This is not only absurd it is patently contrary to logic in matters of the timetable and context of the three faiths in question. I.E. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Islam arrived in the world in approximately 632 A.D. (Islam teaches Allah created the human race from a blood clot.That's the first contradiction in the Hebrew text of Genesis). When Judaism taught of God, and the prophesied Messiah, and later Christianity taught that Yeshua (Joshua) was that Messiah, who was born to take the sins of the world upon himself on the cross, which Islam also does not believe even about that messenger that Islam calls Isa, and then approximately 602 years later God called to himself an illiterate Arab merchant to appear before him at the behest of the Archangel Gabriel whom Allah sent forth to fetch Muhammad, and taught Muhammad something that completely contradicted all that Allah (god) had accomplished when he sent himself forth as his only begotten son Jesus some 602 years prior. Or, the 7th century. Dates will vary depending on the source you seek . Anywhere from 610 A.D. to 632. It just doesn't make any logical sense to argue that is true.However, ecumenicism promoters are doing that very thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted January 18, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,228 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,648 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted January 18, 2017 1Co 10:20 Rather, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice they sacrifice to demons and not to God, and I do not want you to have fellowship with demons. 1Co 10:21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the Lord's table and of the table of demons. 1Co 10:22 Or do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than He? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 2 Posted January 18, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 499 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 277 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/06/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 18, 2017 (edited) On 1/17/2017 at 9:31 AM, soonsister said: Also, as I mentioned there is a movement in the world that hopes to say that Christians and Jews worship the same God. This is not only absurd it is patently contrary to logic in matters of the timetable and context of the three faiths in question. I.E. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Soonsister are you saying there are 2 different Gods, one for Christians and one for Jews? Edited January 18, 2017 by Mike 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonsister Posted January 18, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 647 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 283 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/31/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 18, 2017 30 minutes ago, Mike 2 said: Soonsister are you saying there are 2 different Gods, one for Christians and one for Jews? No. My remarks to my knowledge never alluded to that. The Hebrew bible referred to the coming Messiah.And our Christian new testament is testament of that arrival. All by the will of the one God that both Christians and Jews worship. While there is a movement afoot that hopes to promote the (false) notion that Islam worships the same God as we. Hope that clears it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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