Guest BacKaran Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) Alan Kurschner is a great Pre-Wrath author and brother in Christ. I was pre wrath before I even knew what it was and just a baby in Christ. Here are some charts he made as I'm a visual person. I'd like to debate but I'm not a debater and Scripture doesn't roll of my tongue so no debate needed, this is just for all who may be curious about Pre-Wrath and want to see how it differs from other views. Blessings, ? Karan Edited January 21, 2017 by BacKaran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted January 22, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 22, 2017 Revelation puts the New Jerusalem, New Heaven and New Earth after the Great White Throne Judgment, which is not even mentioned the charts and after the 1000 year reign. The charts also fail to show when Satan is released after being bound for 1000 years, to gather his army for the final battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BacKaran Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 (edited) Hi, The Great white throne judgement is where the sheep and goats are separated. Thats on the chart. As per Charles Cooper states Armageddon takes place thirty days after the completion of Daniels 70th week. I hope this makes sense. More info at the link http://prewrathrapture.com/the_prewrath_rapture_1/ Edited January 22, 2017 by BacKaran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BacKaran Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 http://www.redmoonrising.com/RMR Apocalypse Timeline.jpg Here's another timeline what shows the end of the devil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus O'Reillius Posted January 22, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,050 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 632 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/29/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 22, 2017 (edited) Sorry, I don't follow. Edited January 22, 2017 by Marcus O'Reillius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted January 22, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 22, 2017 13 hours ago, BacKaran said: Hi, The Great white throne judgement is where the sheep and goats are separated. Thats on the chart. As per Charles Cooper states Armageddon takes place thirty days after the completion of Daniels 70th week. I hope this makes sense. More info at the link http://prewrathrapture.com/the_prewrath_rapture_1/ Scripture places the Great White Throne Judgment, New Heaven, New Earth and the New Jerusalem after the 1000 year reign, not before or during. This is what we read in Revelation 20. Satan Bound 1,000 Years 20 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while. The Saints Reign with Christ 1,000 Years 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a[a] thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. Satanic Rebellion Crushed 7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where[b] the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. The Great White Throne Judgment 11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God,[c] and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.[d] 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted January 22, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 22, 2017 13 hours ago, BacKaran said: http://www.redmoonrising.com/RMR Apocalypse Timeline.jpg Here's another timeline what shows the end of the devil. Again, this is putting Satan thrown into the Lake of Fire in the wrong place on the time line. During the 1000 year Reign of Christ, Satan will be in the bottomless pit awaiting another chance to defeat Christ, as shown int eh scripture I provided above from Revelation 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted January 22, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 306 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,130 Content Per Day: 4.64 Reputation: 27,805 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 22, 2017 The chart clearly has the millenium taking place AFTER the Great White Throne Judgement?It does not line up with Scripture.....One Light has provided the Scripture that shows the chart is in error Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BacKaran Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Hi one light Yes I was confused... The sheep and the goats are not the white throne judgement and yes, Satan is done with at the end of the millennial reign. I had to ask my pastor because what you said sounded correct but why was the sheep and goats the white throne judgement not in the right it and they are two different things. Thanks for helping me clarify! Blessings Karan ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted January 22, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,990 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,688 Content Per Day: 11.84 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 22, 2017 Question: "What are the strengths and weaknesses of the pre-wrath view of the rapture?" Answer: There are many opinions regarding eschatology (the doctrine of future things). However, almost all Christians agree on three things: 1) there will be a future time of tribulation, 2) after that time of trouble, Jesus will return to establish His kingdom, and, 3) believers will be translated from their mortal state to an immortal one—in other words, there will be a rapture (John 14:1-3; 1 Corinthians 15:51-52; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17). One remaining question is, when will the rapture occur in relation to the tribulation and Christ’s second coming? The three basic theories concerning the timing of the rapture are pretribulationism, which places the rapture before the tribulation; midtribulationism, which places the rapture at or near the midpoint of the tribulation; and posttribulationism, which places the rapture at the end of the tribulation. Somewhat closely related to midtribulationism is the belief in a “pre-wrath” rapture, which is the subject of this article. The pre-wrath rapture theory says that the rapture occurs before the “great day of . . . wrath” (Revelation 6:17). According to the pre-wrath view, believers go through most of the tribulation but not the time of God's wrath just before the end of the tribulation (Matthew 24:21). The church will endure Satan’s fury and man’s persecution, but will be spared God’s wrath. Before God pours out His final judgment on the world, the church will be caught up to heaven. Here is a brief summary of the pre-wrath rapture position. The pre-wrath rapture theory views the trumpet and the bowl judgments (Revelation 7–16) as the wrath of God, from which the church is exempted (1 Thessalonians 5:9). However, the first six seal judgments (Revelation 6) are not considered the wrath of God; rather, they are viewed as “the wrath of Satan” or “the wrath of the antichrist.” This is because there is no direct mention of God’s wrath until after the sixth seal is broken (Revelation 6:17). According to the pre-wrath rapture theory, the church will be present to experience the first six seals. Comparing Revelation 6 with Matthew 24, the pre-wrath rapture theorists identify the first seal judgments with Jesus’ description of the end times in Matthew 24:4-7. Jesus then refers to these events as “the beginning of birth pains” (verse 8). In verses 29 and 30, “the sign of the Son of Man” appears in the sky, and it is at this time, according to the pre-wrath rapture theory, that the rapture of the church occurs. One weakness of the pre-wrath rapture position is its presumption that the “elect” mentioned in Matthew 24:22, 31 are church-age saints. These saints could just as easily be individuals saved during the seven-year tribulation; in fact, Jesus tells those who flee the antichrist’s persecution to pray that their flight does not occur “on the Sabbath” (verse 20). Since the church is not under the Mosaic law and does not keep the Sabbath, Jesus’ words cannot be directed to the church. Another flaw in the pre-wrath rapture theory is its teaching that the first seal judgments are not the wrath of God. Scripture shows that it is the Lamb who opens the seals (Revelation 5:5; 6:1). No other man is found worthy to open them (5:3-4). It would seem, then, these are not man’s judgments, but God’s. The tribulation begins when Jesus opens the first seal, and from that point on, the wrath of God is meted out on a sinful world. A final weakness of the pre-wrath rapture view is shared by the other theories: viz., the Bible does not give an explicit time line concerning future events. Scripture does not expressly teach one view over another, and that is why we have diversity of opinion concerning the end times and some variety on how the related prophecies should be harmonized. https://www.gotquestions.org/pre-wrath-rapture.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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