missmuffet Posted January 23, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.82 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, Keras said: Sorry, but I recommend you read it carefully so as to get the truth. No, no one goes to heaven, Jesus said so. John 3:13 We humans, made to live on earth, have the promises of God of great blessings, [provided we believe in Him and keep His Commandments] and eventually heaven will be on earth. Rev 21:1-4 If a person dies then where do they go? John 3:13 has nothing to do with people not going to heaven. Question: "Does John 3:13 mean that no one went to Heaven before Jesus?" Answer: In John 3:13 Jesus says to Nicodemus, “No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven–the Son of Man.” This verse is somewhat difficult to interpret and is often misunderstood. It is also frequently used by those who want to find contradictions in the Bible. We must keep the verse in context. In verses 10-12, especially, we see that Jesus is talking about His authority and the validity of His teaching. Jesus tells Nicodemus that He has been teaching what He knew firsthand: “We speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen” (verse 11). Then, in verse 13 Jesus explains why He is uniquely qualified to teach of the kingdom of God—namely, because He alone came down from heaven and possesses the knowledge to teach people about heaven. Jesus alone has seen the Father, and He alone is qualified to declare God and make Him known (John 1:18). The gist of John 3:13 is this: “None of your earthly teachers can really teach you about heaven, because none of them have actually been there. However, I have been there. In fact, it is My home. I have come to you from heaven, and I have brought with Me experiential knowledge of that place. My testimony carries weight; I can tell you the truth about salvation.” The NLT brings out the meaning well: “No one has ever gone to heaven and returned. But the Son of Man has come down from heaven.” In claiming a heavenly abode, Jesus was claiming deity. Nicodemus himself had already admitted that Jesus was extraordinary when he said, “We know you are a teacher who has come from God” (verse 2). Jesus was not teaching that no one had ever gone to heaven before. Obviously, the Old Testament saints had gone to heaven (or paradise) when they died (Mark 12:26-27), and Enoch and Elijah had been taken there without dying (Genesis 5:24; Hebrews 11:5; 2 Kings 2:11). Rather, He was teaching that, of all rabbis, He had the best credentials. Jesus has direct contact with heaven; He is an expert on the subject. https://www.gotquestions.org/John-3-13.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted January 23, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 23, 2017 51 minutes ago, Keras said: No, no one goes to heaven, Jesus said so. John 3:13 This is unbelievably funny (and also very sad). John 3:13 is NOT saying that no one goes to Heaven, but that no MAN has ascended to Heaven, which implies "of his own volition". Enoch and Elijah ascended to Heaven by the power of God. Christ alone had the power to both descend to earth and ascend to Heaven of His own volition, because He is the Son of Man, who is also the Lord from Heaven. This verse has nothing to contradict the Resurrection/Rapture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keras Posted January 23, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,686 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 301 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/07/1941 Share Posted January 23, 2017 47 minutes ago, missmuffet said: If a person dies then where do they go? John 3:13 has nothing to do with people not going to heaven. A very disingenuous answer. If you want Gotquestions to provide you with the truth: good luck with that! Many Bible verses state what happens when we die. It isn't going to be with the Lord, as pastors at funerals say. The Bible plainly says that the dead, excepting the saints killed for their faith; Rev 20:4, know nothing until they stand before God on His Great White Throne, Rev 20:11-15 You know, missmuffet, we are told that many false teachers will fool a lot of Christians in these end times. If a rapture to heaven simply isn't scriptural; why believe it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keras Posted January 23, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,686 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 301 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/07/1941 Share Posted January 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, Ezra said: This is unbelievably funny (and also very sad). John 3:13 is NOT saying that no one goes to Heaven, but that no MAN has ascended to Heaven, which implies "of his own volition". Enoch and Elijah ascended to Heaven by the power of God. Christ alone had the power to both descend to earth and ascend to Heaven of His own volition, because He is the Son of Man, who is also the Lord from Heaven. This verse has nothing to contradict the Resurrection/Rapture. What is sad, is people adding to scripture in order to fit a belief. The truth of no living human going to heaven is confirmed by; John 8:21-23, John 17:15, John 7:34, Rev 5:10 Also, the truth of what God actually does want His people to do: His witnesses, Isaiah 43:10, and His Light to the nations, Isaiah 49:8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted January 23, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 23, 2017 11 minutes ago, Keras said: The truth of no living human going to heaven is confirmed by; John 8:21-23, John 17:15, John 7:34, Rev 5:10 Actually you are seriously mistaken, as even John 14:1-3 confirms. To disbelieve this is to disbelieve God. JESUS IS GOD 1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. GOD'S HOUSE IS HEAVEN, THE PLACE OF HIS THRONE 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: CHRIST AFFIRMS THIS EMPHATICALLY if it were not so, I would have told you. THE CHRISTIAN'S PLACE IN IN HEAVEN I go to prepare a place for you. CHRIST IS NOW IN HEAVEN PREPARING THIS PLACE 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, CHRIST WILL COME AGAIN AT THE RAPTURE I will come again, TO RECEIVE ALL BELIEVERS TO HIMSELF and receive you unto myself; BECAUSE HE IS IN HEAVEN, WE WILL ALSO BE THERE that where I am, there ye may be also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted January 23, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 23, 2017 11 minutes ago, Abdicate said: Funny, there are eleven throughout the scriptures... http://abdicate.net/blog/?p=326 That's really stretching it, but if it makes you happy, who can complain? The truth is that there is only one Resurrection/Rapture of the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted January 23, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.82 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 23, 2017 53 minutes ago, Keras said: A very disingenuous answer. If you want Gotquestions to provide you with the truth: good luck with that! Many Bible verses state what happens when we die. It isn't going to be with the Lord, as pastors at funerals say. The Bible plainly says that the dead, excepting the saints killed for their faith; Rev 20:4, know nothing until they stand before God on His Great White Throne, Rev 20:11-15 You know, missmuffet, we are told that many false teachers will fool a lot of Christians in these end times. If a rapture to heaven simply isn't scriptural; why believe it? I suggest that you read the Bible literally with good hermeneutics. Because you are giving the passages a wrong meaning. That will allow for false teaching and allow a fellow Christian to stumble and fall. God does not want that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keras Posted January 23, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,686 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 301 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/07/1941 Share Posted January 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Ezra said: Actually you are seriously mistaken, as even John 14:1-3 confirms. To disbelieve this is to disbelieve God. What I am is not mistaken, as I have shown scripturally. But the truth conflicts with your beliefs, hence your objection. John 14:1-3 is often touted as a rapture proof. However careful study of that prophecy, firstly never mentions heaven and secondly is paralleled by Revelation 21:1-4, where the New Jerusalem comes down to earth and God dwells with mankind. 55 minutes ago, missmuffet said: I suggest that you read the Bible literally with good hermeneutics. Because you are giving the passages a wrong meaning. That will allow for false teaching and allow a fellow Christian to stumble and fall. God does not want that. The meaning I give to the prophesies is the simple understanding of the Word. In your opinion this isn't right and you want it to mean something else. Actually God has allowed Christians to be deceived. Some will listen to false teachers, 2 Timothy 4:3-4 and the wisdom of the wise is folly in God's sight. 1 Cor. 3:19 We see this happening all around, in the mega churches and on the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted January 23, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.82 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 23, 2017 Just now, Keras said: What I am is not mistaken, as I have shown scripturally. But the truth conflicts with your beliefs, hence your objection. John 14:1-3 is often touted as a rapture proof. However careful study of that prophecy, firstly never mentions heaven and secondly is paralleled by Revelation 21:1-4, where the New Jerusalem comes down to earth and God dwells with mankind. The meaning I give to the prophesies is the simple understanding of the Word. In your opinion this isn't right and you want it to mean something else. Actually God has allowed Christians to be deceived. Some will listen to false teachers, 2 Timothy 4:3-4 and the wisdom of the wise is folly in God's sight. 1 Cor. 3:19 We see this happening all around, in the mega churches and on the internet. What you believe is between you and God. Your brain and your eyes have digested the truth. It is then your choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrobyter Posted January 23, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,576 Content Per Day: 1.07 Reputation: 2,440 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/28/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/28/1957 Share Posted January 23, 2017 5 hours ago, Abdicate said: A few million in my thinking... easy-believeism has provided a false sense of who is Christian. Only those found worthy will escape as Jesus said, and if they pray so. I also believe there are multiple raptures, that's why there's no agreement. Just my two cents. Shalom, Abdicate. I've gotta ask: What constitutes being "found worthy," in your opinion? I'll admit that "easy believism" is a problem for some; they think they can say a few words, and they are magically "born again." On the other hand, it's important to understand that there are two ways to approach God. One works, and the other does not. Some think that they can do some good works (good deeds) and God will accept them "if their good deeds outweigh their bad deeds." This does not work. Others understand that there is NOTHING that we can do to merit God's favor; we must come humbly to God and admit that we are sinners and ask Him to do for us the impossible. Then, HE steps in and justifies us by His grace, declaring us "righteous" through His own righteousness in the righteousness of His Son, and we are TRULY "born again" or "born from above." (Read Luke 18:9-14.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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