Keras Posted January 23, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,684 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 301 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/07/1941 Share Posted January 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Giller said: Hmmm these were men. and they shall go to heaven, hmmm, is that true that no man goes to heaven? I do not see it in this scripture. Paul visited heaven. Just as John did; in the Spirit. The two Witnesses are murdered first, just as all the martyrs have and will be. Their souls are under the heavenly Altar and Jesus will bring them with Him and resurrect them at His Return. Making these facts into a general rapture of living Christians is an impossible stretch. For sure, I do not see a rapture of anyone until Jesus Returns and gathers we who remain, the surviving Christians, as described in Matthew 24:31 and 1 Thess 4:15-17 Then it is simply a transportation to where Jesus is; in Jerusalem. 1 hour ago, Giller said: The first ones to be born again were the old testament saints which were born again when Christ rose from the dead, and they rose after him, and then were able to go to heaven. That those resurrected with Jesus went to heaven with Him is not in the Bible, you have made it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Keras, your theology is seriously flawed. There are numerous threads concerning the Rapture on this site. May I suggest that you read some of them to get your facts straight. You are advocating a false theology which won't go unchallenged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted January 23, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.36 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 23, 2017 12 hours ago, Abdicate said: I'll bet you didn't even read the link... you're choice to remain in your thinking. God bless. I read the link and I still say "that is stretching it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted January 23, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.36 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 23, 2017 11 hours ago, Keras said: ...firstly never mentions heaven... This kind of reasoning is becoming more and more prevalent, and that is why we see so much error being promoted today. But anyone who studies Scripture knows that: 1. Jesus is the Son of God, therefore "my Father" means God. 2. "God" generally means "God the Father" in the NT. 3. The Father's "house" can be none other than God's Heaven (the third Heaven) since Scripture says "Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool" (words said by God). 4. Christ is now in Heaven, where He said He would go. So to say "firstly never mentions heaven" is to either (a) reveal abysmal ignorance about Scripture or (b) deliberately avoid the truth about Heaven to promote false doctrine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Teditis Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 I have a question... Where is God's house? John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keras Posted January 23, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,684 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 301 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/07/1941 Share Posted January 23, 2017 3 hours ago, Giller said: I personally was not referring to the rapture, I was just speaking on the fact, you said no one goes to heaven, and showing forth proof that people do, and I must admit you have really strange beliefs, and yes I do believe in the rapture, a pre trib rapture, which happens before the 7 year tribulation period, and does not occur at the second coming. My beliefs are strictly what the Bible says. I oppose the 'rapture to heaven' theory because it isn't Biblical. If a pre-trib removal of Christians is scriptural, such a thing must be mentioned somewhere in the Bible. But it isn't, so I don't believe it. What the Prophetic Word does say about our future, is that all true Christian believers, God's holy people are present in the holy Land during the time of the Anti-Christ. Daniel 7:25, Revelation 13:7 Your quotes in no way prove that humans are in heaven; Rev 21:2, Happens after the Millennium, when God Himself comes to dwell in earth. Rev 5:3, says.... there was no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth..... meaning, no angel, no human, no whatever lives underground, is worthy to open the Scroll. The KJV mistranslates the Greek word 'oudeis' as 'no man', but other Bibles correctly say: no one. 1 Peter 1:3-4, Our inheritance [and citizenship] is kept in heaven, but heaven comes to us, not the other way. Same for Col 1:5 Revelation 19:1 The great multitude heard are the souls of the martyrs, allowed to speak ta times. Rev 6:9-11 Proved by Rev 19:2, where they thank God for taking vengeance for their blood. 4 hours ago, Teditis said: I have a question... Where is God's house? John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. God lives in heaven, a spiritual place in another dimension. It can be seen from earth, as Ezekiel 1:1 and Acts 7:56 tell us. Jesus went to heaven and He is preparing a place for His people. That place, the New Jerusalem will come to earth and humans will live in it, after the Millennium. Exactly as Revelation 21 & 22 describe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keras Posted January 23, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,684 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 301 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/07/1941 Share Posted January 23, 2017 5 hours ago, Rick_Parker said: Keras, your theology is seriously flawed. There are numerous threads concerning the Rapture on this site. May I suggest that you read some of them to get your facts straight. You are advocating a false theology which won't go unchallenged. Hi Rick, I too, was a rapture believer, until I carefully studied the Bible and couldn't find any proof of that theory. What I did find, was the amazing promises of God to His people, of His protection during His wrath and how we will live in peace and prosperity, being the people in the holy Land He always wanted; His witnesses and a light to the nations. That is our hope and our destiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted January 23, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 23, 2017 33 minutes ago, Keras said: Hi Rick, I too, was a rapture believer, until I carefully studied the Bible and couldn't find any proof of that theory. What I did find, was the amazing promises of God to His people, of His protection during His wrath and how we will live in peace and prosperity, being the people in the holy Land He always wanted; His witnesses and a light to the nations. That is our hope and our destiny. I am not Rick, but need to inquire your thoughts on 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18? But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keras Posted January 23, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,684 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 301 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/07/1941 Share Posted January 23, 2017 16 minutes ago, OneLight said: I am not Rick, but need to inquire your thoughts on 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18? But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words. This prophecy by Paul, refers to the Return of Jesus, as per Revelation 19:11-21 and Matthew 24:30-31 Verse 31 says Jesus will send out His angels to gather those who remain, that is: the survivors of the Great Trib. They will meet and greet the Lord in the clouds, when and where I believe the wedding supper of the Lamb will take place. Revelation 19:6-9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus O'Reillius Posted January 23, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,050 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 632 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/29/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) 20 hours ago, Keras said: No one goes to heaven, Jesus said so. John 3:13 No, He didn't say no can go to Heaven. He said no one has the capacity to take themselves to Heaven. No one has ascended into heaven - is in the Greek active voice. The subject does the action. No one CAN ascend themselves to Heaven. No one has ascended into heaven - yet Enoch and Elijah were not to be found on the earth. No one has ascended into heaven - yet Ezekiel was shown a vision in Heaven. Enoch, Elijah, and Ezekiel all ascended into Heaven by God - and the Greek passive voice would be used to indicate that. God did the ascending in their cases, not the person who ascended. Only Jesus has the power to ascend Himself into Heaven. To use John 3:13, as rabbi keras repeatedly does so as to say we cannot be taken to the barn of Heaven; is in error. It is an error I have corrected him before many times. It is an error he wantonly and willingly repeats. He will not correct himself, and he stubbornly refuses to be corrected. Edited January 23, 2017 by Marcus O'Reillius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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