The Rapture of the Church

[Retrobyter]

11 hours ago, Abdicate said:

Jesus said, 

Matthew 7:21-23 (KJV)
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 

Playing churchy churchy isn't a guarantee of freedom from hell. Only God knows the heart's true motives. Even David cried out,

Psalms 139:23-24 (KJV)
Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: And see if [there be any] wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting. 

The hymn has it right, "When we walk with the Lord in the light of His Word, What a glory He sheds on our way! While we do His good will, He abides with us still, And with all who will trust and obey.Trust and obey, for there’s no other way To be happy in Jesus, but to trust and obey."

Psalms 84:11-12 (KJV)
For the LORD God [is] a sun and shield: the LORD will give grace and glory: no good [thing] will he withhold from them that walk uprightly. O LORD of hosts, blessed [is] the man that trusteth in thee. 

The great deception began in the 1950's with easy believism.

Ephesians 5:5-6 (KJV)
For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 

Most people don't know what this verse means so for them, here's the ESV.

Ephesians 5:5-6 (ESV2011)
For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous ( that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 

Too many believe they have fire insurance and live the way they want instead of obeying the Lord. I'm no judge, only Jesus is. And praise Him for that!

 

Shalom, Abdicate.

Hmmm.... I'm hearing too much "doing" and not enough "being" in your response.

Let's flesh out your quotation of Ephesians 5:5-6 with the context:

Ephesians 5:1-21
1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
2 And walk in love, as Christ (the Messiah) also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints (holy ones);
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth
10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.
18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;
21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
KJV

First Corinthians 6 says the same thing:

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
KJV

One does not do good deeds to become a child of God; one does good deeds BECAUSE he or she is a child of God! God's justification of an individual comes FIRST; THEN he or she may do good works THROUGH the power of the Ruach haQodesh (the Holy Spirit). Don't get the cart before the horse.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Keras said:

Hi Rick,  I too, was a rapture believer, until I carefully studied the Bible and couldn't find any proof of that theory. What I did find, was the amazing promises of God to His people, of His protection during His wrath and how we will live in peace and prosperity, being the people in the holy Land He always wanted; His witnesses and a light to the nations. That is our hope and our destiny.

There is plenty of proof of the Rapture in Scripture. Just because the word Rapture is not used does not mean that it is not there. Like I said, there are many threads about the Rapture on this board, perhaps it would behoove you to seek them out and read them. None-the-less, the theology that you are teaching is not correct and should not be taught. One important issue, is about Christians living on Earth for Eternity. GOD promised the land of Israel to the Jews, with whom HE promised to live amongst. But the Church, the Bride of Christ, was not given such a Promise. We are to live in the New Jerusalem with Christ. The New Jerusalem will not be on Earth, but with be above it, to shine it's light upon the entire planet. So, unless you believe that the Earth will be flat, it cannot possibly sit upon the Earth. Not to mention the size of it. Besides the Church and the believing Jews, everyone else will spend Eternity in the Lake of Fire, so there will be no one but the Church in the New Jerusalem and the Jews in the Promised Land for Eternity.

[Retrobyter]

1 hour ago, Abdicate said:

It's funny you see my words like that because I was saying the exact opposite. Too many do and yet they don't believe. That is my point. They are stillborn "Christians" and they believe they're doing God's will without His guidance. They're doing what they think is right in their own eyes. That's false religion and they'll go to hell with their neighbor who's a serial killer. Then you have those who are indeed Christians who reject God's teaching in lieu of man's and will never grow beyond being saved by fire with their closeths smelling of smoke and their works burned up. You can expound on Paul's words, but in the end you must first trust and obey in order to actually "do" anything for God. You might want to reread what I wrote. You've understood me incorrectly.

Shalom, Abdicate.

Oops! Okay, sorry about that. I understand your position now, but "trusting and OBEYING" can sometimes translate in some people's minds to "trusting" and "doing something, like getting baptized or saying x number of Hail Mary's or ... whatever" in order to be "saved." That's all I'm sayin'.

[Keras]

2 hours ago, Giller said:

Totally agree Marcus, I too find that Keras seems to be wanting to believe what he wants to believe irregardless to what is said.

I believe what I do regardless of what those who teach other doctrines and theories think or say.

John 3:13 is a plain statement. It is simply a statement of fact: said to Nicodemus, as Jesus taught about the things of heaven. The truth of no human going to heaven, is confirmed by many other scriptures.

Why even think such a thing when God's promises to His people tell of an amazing future for us Christians on earth?

[Marcus O'Reillius]

3 minutes ago, Keras said:

John 3:13 is a plain statement. It is simply a statement of fact: said to Nicodemus, as Jesus taught about the things of heaven. The truth of no human going to heaven, is confirmed by many other scriptures.

John 3:13 is a plain statement which you misuse.

It is a simple statement of fact told to Nicodemus that no one can go to Heaven by their own power.

The truth is that humans DO go to Heaven.  John did.

And if you had other "scriptures" - you'd trot them out, and we'd find your interpretation is not anywhere close to what they have to say.

Again, the Greek active voice says the person does the action listed.

Has anyone decided to go to Heaven and got there by their own power?  NO.  No one has the ability to do it, much less know even where it lies.

But people have gone there and we will too - as the Great Multitude.

[Keras]

14 minutes ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

The truth is that humans DO go to Heaven.  John did.

A pathetic effort to prove an idea that Jesus refutes. Not just once, but many times we are told heaven is not our home. And to ignore the many prophesies saying what God really does plan for His people, is beyond foolishness.

18 minutes ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

But people have gone there and we will too - as the Great Multitude.

Dream on!   The vast multitude in Rev 7:9 is in Jerusalem. God's Throne is on Mt Zion- Rev 14:1-3  Heaven is not mentioned.     Also those in Rev 19:1-2 are the souls of the martyrs, allowed to cry out at times. Rev 6:9-11   Proved by how they praise God for taking vengeance for their murders.

A rapture removal to heaven for anyone today, is a false teaching and has led to many Christians having a complacent attitude and being careless about their faith.  Believe it if you must, but don't teach it. James 3:1

[Marcus O'Reillius]

7 hours ago, Keras said:

A pathetic effort to prove an idea that Jesus refutes. Not just once, but many times we are told heaven is not our home. And to ignore the many prophesies saying what God really does plan for His people, is beyond foolishness.

Pathetic?  How about re-writing Isaiah which you did before on another message board.
Pathetic?  How about misappropriating Millennium verses for Israel and inserting the Church into them.
Pathetic?  How about your misuse of Bible verse, citing them as proof, only to have anyone who takes the time to look, see that they don't mean what you say they mean.

Pathetic?  How about being a false teacher, trying to destroy a belief with which Paul says we should comfort each other: the Rapture.
 

7 hours ago, Keras said:

Dream on!   The vast multitude in Rev 7:9 is in Jerusalem. God's Throne is on Mt Zion- Rev 14:1-3  Heaven is not mentioned.    

Pathetic?  How about trying to relocate the scene in Heaven John lays out in Revelation chapters 4 and 5 - which is restated in the text which describes the Great Multitude - who have come out of the Great Tribulation just as Jesus said of the Elect in Mt 24:31, and are taken (paralambano) from the earth (to receive their inheritance) to the barn of Heaven (as He said in the parable of the wheat and tares in Mt 13).

God's throne is not on Mt Zion in Revelation 14:1-3.  That is the newly cleft Mount of Olives which Jesus splits when He touches down on the earth on the Day of the Lord - Zec 14:4

In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south. You will flee by the valley of My mountains, for the valley of the mountains will reach to Azel...

The second component of the Remnant Jews flee the coming battle around Jerusalem to join those in Judah who escaped the clutches of the King of the North on the eve of the midpoint of the one 'seven' when he surrounds Jerusalem with his army and encamps there.

It is on this mountain that God musters His Army for the coming battle - on the second half of the Day of the Lord!  Isaiah 13:3-5

I have commanded My consecrated ones,
I have even called My mighty warriors,
My proudly exulting ones,
To execute My anger.
A sound of tumult on the mountains,
Like that of many people!
A sound of the uproar of kingdoms,
Of nations gathered together!
The Lord of hosts is mustering the army for battle.
They are coming from a far country,
From the farthest horizons,
The Lord and His instruments of indignation,
To destroy the whole land.

Rev 14:1 Then I looked, and behold, the Lamb was standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His name and the name of His Father written on their foreheads.

There are two battles fought on the Day of the Lord, which is the context Isaiah cites in 13:6 for the mustering of this Army - one directed at Jerusalem, and the other in the "valley of decision," which scholars peg to the south around Bethlehem.

The Day of the Lord is not a "nice" day for Israel.  It is no place to be if you are not fighting with the Lord, and we do not march with Him on that Day; we're too precious.  A Man does not take His Bride to war, but protects her in a safe place.

Pathetic is saying we're all whisked to the center of the conflict between God and Man at this terrible time of suffering, dying, and death.  Fire consumes the earth before God's charging Army and blood will overflow.  It is a time of God's Judgment upon the nations and Israel's unbelief, sinful pride, and willing participation with the talking image abomination of desolation set up in the Temple.

[OneLight]

Keras, your theology seems to follow the teachings of Jehovah Witness doctrine.  Are you a Jehovah Witness?

[Keras]

5 hours ago, Giller said:

We are not called to be Changers of the word, we are called to be believers. God says not to add or take away from the word, no man means no man.

The Greek word 'oudeis' means 'no one'.  Man is not meant by that word and it is angels that live in heaven with God.

I assume you are a KJV only person?  This mis-translation is one of hundreds or other examples of KJV error.  Well proven and undeniable.

5 hours ago, Giller said:

I believe that you are in deep trouble with the Lord, and have you been born again? Do you know what salvation is?

Who are you to question my salvation? Don't do it, it judgmental - James 4:11-12    BTW, I am NOT a J.W. and I don't answer Marcus rants.

 

 

 

[Keras]

1 hour ago, eileenhat said:

What will happen has been forewarned and no human ideas will change the fact of that situation.

Thank you, Eileenhat for your useful comments.

We Christians have been well and truly forewarned of what God plans for our future. But sadly, many have chosen to believe theories and doctrines that are not scriptural. This may result in the loss of their faith when things don't happen as they expected.