"All Believers Taken" In The Pre-Tribulation Rapture is a False Teaching!

[Keras]

30 minutes ago, OneLight said:

And then what?  This world and heaven is coming to an end.

No, at the end of the Millennium, the earth will be renewed and restored and a new Jerusalem will be on it.

But before that, soon after the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster: Zephaniah 3:8, 2 Peter 3:7 + 100 other prophesies, we Christians will go to live in a regenerated holy Land, Ezekiel 36:8, Isaiah 35:1-10

27 minutes ago, OneLight said:

I have been in a Pentecostal faith for years and never head them teach this doctrine.  I appreciate your explanation.

Right; my Pastor refuses to even look at my writings. I attend for the prayer, worship and fellowship.

[OneLight]

10 hours ago, Keras said:

No, at the end of the Millennium, the earth will be renewed and restored and a new Jerusalem will be on it.

But before that, soon after the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster: Zephaniah 3:8, 2 Peter 3:7 + 100 other prophesies, we Christians will go to live in a regenerated holy Land, Ezekiel 36:8, Isaiah 35:1-10

Right; my Pastor refuses to even look at my writings. I attend for the prayer, worship and fellowship.

Scripture does not tell us we will have a renewed earth or heaven.  They all say new.  Isaiah 65:17, 66:22; 2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 21:1-2.

Neither do I believe in the replacement theory.

[Lawlord]

I have amended the video title on my youtube video to "All Believers Taken" In The Pre-Tribulation Rapture is a False Teaching! BE WARNED! for the following reason:

As Rev (3:8-10) says, the Lord will keep true believers from the trial that comes upon the world. There is Word that says this can be delivering them from evil (2 Peter 2:8-9, Lot being delivered from the trials of destruction of Soddom and Gomorrah by warning), and the Lord prays to His Father we not be taken from the earth but be kept from evil (John 17:15), but I cannot say ABSOLUTELY the Lord won't take true believers from the earth. I don't believe I will be taken from the earth, but I can't say for certain others wont be. If the Lord wants to take true believers who have served Him well from the earth I will be all too glad.

As such, if the Lord decides to do so, I cannot say the Lord is false or lying if He decides to do so, thus I MUST amend the title of my video. The content of my video, and the discussion still stands, but the certainty of my stating the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine is a FALSEHOOD only applies to the belief that all believers will be taken from the earth before tribulation. This is blatantly FALSE and is a FALSE TEACHING.

However, the Lord can keep true believers from the trials (Rev 3:8-10) in whatever way HE CHOOSES TO DO SO. I cannot say with certainty the way the Lord will do so, thus I had to amend my video title and description. Note that I don't believe there is much support for a pre-trib rapture in the Word, I am simply saying it is not impossible for those described in (Rev 3:8-10). I apologise for any misunderstandings or problems this may have caused. I want to be accurate and faithful to God's Word. But I also cannot assert absolute certainties where there are uncertainties. This is the reason for my editing of the video title and description, and though my discussion still stands I must curtail it to what I know is a certain falsehood, and not say that something is impossible where it MAY be possible. I hope you understand. Thank you, Christopher

Edited January 28, 2017 by Lawlord

[Daniel 11:36]

Think about this:

The Lord is capable of doing His will, and He will keep all of those of both the dead in Christ and those living at the time from His wrath and judgment of the coming tribulatin

All of them have already been saved buy His grace .... those who do not believe this, are not saved

Most today are not saved, but they give witness as though they are saved

Give witness to them so that they will not miss His calling

The next thing will be His wrath and the tribulation of His judgment upon all who do not believe .... not one believer will be upon the earth at this juncture of Revelation 6:12-17

You can be saved after, but you will be in the minority .... most will killed by the time He is finished

And few will be left to be judged .... some to everlasting punishment, and a few will be found believing

All who are found believing will enter and populate His millennial kingdom as mortals upon the earth  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 28, 2017 by Daniel 11:36

[Marcus O'Reillius]

On ‎1‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 10:29 PM, Keras said:

not all Christians will experience the Great Tribulation of the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls, as all the faithful ones will be taken to a place of safety on earth for the 1260 days of the G.T. Revelation 12:14

rabbi keras says that the Great Tribulation is 42 months or 1260 days, or 3 1/2 years.
Jesus says otherwise:

Mt 24:15 Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),
Mt 24:21-22 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
Mt 24:29 But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

In the context of the second half of the one 'seven' - begun at the midpoint abomination Jesus references here in verse 15 - the Great Tribulation is "shortened."

The word Jesus uses has its root in an agricultural term familiar with the culture in which Matthew wrote: "docking" an animals tail.

Now when you "dock" an animals tail - to do not trim the hairs on it so that it retains its full length.
No.  You abruptly, and violently cut it off to but a nub, a stubby bit of a tail with only a few vertebrae.

And this is done by the sudden arrival of the "unknown" Day: the Day of the Lord.
_________________________________________________________

The Great Tribulation is as most understand it: a time when we are forced to worship the talking image - which is the abomination(s)-desolation as revealed in Revelation chapter 13:14-15 - or die -- or alternatively, take the 'mark' of the beast, which is an impression, or face not being able to get shelter, food, or water.  This fact of end-time prophecy is laid out right after the revelation of the talking image - which is an idol, and thus abominable, and this one is so great because unlike the silent idols of the past - this one speaks! -- in Revelation 13:15-16.

Jesus is consistent:
In both accounts which He gives - the sequence-of-events is the same: midpoint abomination and then Great Tribulation.
__________________________________________________________

The reason the Great Tribulation is cut short is that the Elect cannot survive for three and half years when they are being hunted down, and can't provide for themselves.

rabbi keras answers this by misappropriating a clause for the Remnant Jews of Israel for the Church - Rev 12:14.

HOWEVER!

Jesus' Revelation to John distinguishes this body of people, who are protected, from her "offspring" in 12:17 - and those "children" who come from Judaism are us: those "who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus."  We do not take the mark of the beast nor do we worship the talking image of the anti-Christ and so we are persecuted to near extinction by Satan and his minions.

[Keras]

6 hours ago, OneLight said:

Scripture does not tell us we will have a renewed earth or heaven.  They all say new.  Isaiah 65:17, 66:22; 2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 21:1-2.

Neither do I believe in the replacement theory.

A new earth is fine by me, however I believe the earth existed before Adam, [tohu and bohu = formless and void] and the God will again remake it.

It isn't 'replacement theology' that I espouse. It is 'grafting into' the tree trunk; that is Jesus. This is clear NT teaching and the idea of Two People, Two Promises, is refuted by there being only one people of God. John 17:22-23, Ephesians 4:4-6, Galatians 3:26-29

The Jewish people have the same opportunity as everyone else to accept the salvation offered by Jesus.

[OneLight]

Just now, Keras said:

A new earth is fine by me, however I believe the earth existed before Adam, [tohu and bohu = formless and void] and the God will again remake it.

It isn't 'replacement theology' that I espouse. It is 'grafting into' the tree trunk; that is Jesus. This is clear NT teaching and the idea of Two People, Two Promises, is refuted by there being only one people of God. John 17:22-23, Ephesians 4:4-6, Galatians 3:26-29

The Jewish people have the same opportunity as everyone else to accept the salvation offered by Jesus.

Yes, we are grafted in, but when God promised Israel anything in the OT, He was not including the NT church, but the tribes of Israel.  I am sure when it all comes down to His promises, we will be happy with what we have, so I don't even consider what He may or may not be giving me, as long as I am in Him and He in me, that is enough. 

[Keras]

1 hour ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

rabbi keras answers this by misappropriating a clause for the Remnant Jews of Israel for the Church - Rev 12:14.

HOWEVER!

Jesus' Revelation to John distinguishes this body of people, who are protected, from her "offspring" in 12:17 - and those "children" who come from Judaism are us: those "who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus."  We do not take the mark of the beast nor do we worship the talking image of the anti-Christ and so we are persecuted to near extinction by Satan and his minions.

Rev. 12:17 says: Furious with the woman, the dragon went off to wage war on the rest of her offspring, those who keep God's commandments and maintain their witness to Jesus. 

Wrong again, Marcus, both the woman and those who must remain are Christians. This truth is confirmed by Daniel 11:32 and Zechariah 14:2, when all true Christians are living in the holy Land and the Anti-Christ conquers them. Revelation 13:7, Daniel 7:25   All this again disproves the rapture to heaven theory.

[Keras]

8 minutes ago, OneLight said:

Yes, we are grafted in, but when God promised Israel anything in the OT, He was not including the NT church, but the tribes of Israel.  I am sure when it all comes down to His promises, we will be happy with what we have, so I don't even consider what He may or may not be giving me, as long as I am in Him and He in me, that is enough. 

You have the right attitude.

Yes the OT prophesies are specific to Israel.  Jesus came and offered the Kingdom to them, they rejected and killed Him. Therefore, the Kingdom was taken from them and given to a people who bear the proper fruit. Matthew 21:43  We Christians are those people; called from Jews and Gentiles alike, those who were no people of Mine, will be called the sons of the Living God. Romans 9:24-26

We are the Israelites of God, Galatians 6:16, His Overcomers; what 'Israel' means. And we are the inheritors of God's promises to Israel, the people from every tribe, race, nation and language, bought by Jesus' blood, Rev 5:9-10  and soon to be gathered into the holy Land. Isaiah 66:15-21, Ezekiel 34:1-31, Zechariah 8:1-8 plus many other prophesies of the amazing redemption of the Lord's Christian believers.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

22 hours ago, Keras said:

my Pastor refuses to even look at my writings. I attend for the prayer, worship and fellowship.

Your Pastor won't even look at your writings?  That's amazing.  What - someone who writes Bible Study Guides isn't even validated by his own pastor?  That says a lot about your writing.

Like your confusing the Remnant of Israel who are protected by God from the rest of her offspring who hold onto God's Commandments and the testimony of Jesus.

He won't listen to your mixed-up Replacement Theology.  Good for him.

God saves a few of the Jews to come to Him in the Millennium.
Those in Judea, Jews, are told to flee at the midpoint.
God doesn't tell the Elect to flee.

But we face persecution that is greater by far than anything in history.
When Satan can't destroy the Jews, he comes after us.
God tells the Elect that we will be nearly eliminated.

And that Great Tribulation doesn't last 1260 days.
It is shortened or the Elect - who are subject to it and who are not protected as the Jews are - aren't all killed off.

Yet Paul tells us that some of us will remain and still be alive when He comes on the Day of the Lord.
And the sun won't be exploding on that Day either.