ZacharyB Posted January 31, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 410 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 175 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted January 31, 2017 It’s all about free-will choices … to believe God, to believe His warnings, and to obey Him … or not. Just like it all started in the Garden of Eden and continued through the ages. Adam and Eve were given a fabulous life in the Garden. Their lives were filled with great delight and promise for all of eternity. Their part was just simply to obey God. Their love and appreciation for God and their obedience were tested. Satan, the tempter, was the medium for this. He said don’t believe God and obey Him for “You will not surely die.” He deceived them into choosing to follow their wishes over God’s wishes. The result of their sin was death … physical and spiritual. Born-again believers are given God’s free gift of grace. Their lives are filled with great delight and promise for all of eternity. Ah, you say, and they can do whatever they please! But, no … their part is simply to obey God. Their love and appreciation for God and their obedience will be tested. Satan, the tempter, is the medium for this. He says don’t believe God and obey Him for “You will not surely die.” He deceives many into choosing to follow their wishes over God’s wishes. The result of their sin is death … physical and spiritual. It’s Adam and Eve all over again every day for us! It’s all about free-will choices to believe and obey God, or not. “Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. … But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.” (James 1:12-16) Many Christians today like to insist that this “death” is merely physical. So, they are saying that Jesus is going around killing believers who fail the James test. Notice that those who love Jesus endure the temptation to sin, and are thus “approved”. (Jesus says 4 times in John 14 that those who love Him will obey His commandments.) And those who fail to overcome the temptation to sin are faced with eternal death. “I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.” (Romans 12:1) “you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves) of sin leading to death, or (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness … so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.” (Romans 6:16-19) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted January 31, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,157 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,444 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Understanding the deliverance from Law and a mind of works to earn-> to a mind renewed by The Grace of God: Read Romans 7 flowing into the statement Romans 8:1 (KJV) [8:1] There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. [2] For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. [3] For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: [4] That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. There are many remnants of Catholicism where works are brought as a necessity to salvation yet God says Romans 4:6 (KJV) [6] Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Titus 3:5 (KJV) [5] Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; It could not be any clearer than this and if expansion to this may be said: We all were born into a world given over to satan... and all first born in this place practices and accepts sin as okay, (all are first born in this world), yet some would suggest that you can manipulate the things of satan, (world), and practice a work with these things and gain righteousness into the right to be with a Holy God Who has zero to do with sin or anything that even has been next to the sin (Jude 23) ... the miracle of Grace 'IS', in and of itself, 'of God alone' and it's purchase price was God's Own Son The Christ 'Jesus'... Now when The Son asked as perfect Man for any other way, than have to bear our sin in Himself, to The Father 'There was none' thus the only way to The Father 'IS' through The Son John 14:6 (KJV) [6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. When a man or woman come to the place where they realize they are rejected by God because of where and what they are 'and believe' in what Jesus 'IS' and what He 'HAS DONE' repentance of their very being is possible and a broken and contrite heart call from a condemned heart is heard through God's mercy by His Work of Grace & fully justified to do so by The Work of The Son ... find the perfect here and all I have said is null and void. Find the perfect on the right Hand of God and you have found The Living Christ... Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted January 31, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.81 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 31, 2017 Question: "Is God sovereign or do we have a free will?" Answer: When we talk about free will, we are usually concerned with the matter of salvation. Few are interested in whether we have the free will to choose salad or steak for our dinner tonight. Rather, we are troubled over who exactly is in control of our eternal destiny. Any discussion of man’s free will must begin with an understanding of his nature because man’s will is bound by that nature. A prisoner has the freedom to pace up and down in his cell, but he is constrained by the walls of that cell and can go no further, no matter how much his will might desire it. So it is with man. Because of sin, man is imprisoned within a cell of corruption and wickedness which permeates to the very core of our being. Every part of man is in bondage to sin – our bodies, our minds, and our wills. Jeremiah 17:9 tells us the state of man’s heart: it is “deceitful and desperately wicked.” In our natural, unregenerate state, we are carnally minded, not spiritually minded. “For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace because the carnal mind is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the Law of God, neither indeed can it be” (Romans 8:6-7). These verses tell us that before we are saved, we are at enmity (war) with God, we do not submit to God and His law, neither can we. The Bible is clear that, in his natural state, man is incapable of choosing that which is good and holy. In other words, he does not have the “free will” to choose God because his will is not free. It is constrained by his nature, just as the prisoner is constrained by his cell. How then can anyone be saved? Ephesians 2:1 describes the process. We who are “dead in our trespasses and sins” have been “made alive” through Christ. A dead man cannot make himself alive because he lacks the necessary power to do so. Lazarus lay in his tomb four days unable to do a thing to resurrect himself. Christ came along and commanded him to come to life (John 11). So it is with us. We are spiritually dead, unable to rise. But “while we were yet sinners Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8). He calls us out of our spiritual graves and gives us a completely new nature, one undefiled by sin as the old nature was (2 Corinthians 5:17). God saw the desperate and helpless state of our souls, and in His great love and mercy, He sovereignly chose to send His Son to the cross to redeem us. By His grace we are saved through the gift of faith which He gives us so that we can believe in Jesus. His grace is a free gift, our faith is a free gift, and our salvation is a free gift given to those whom God has chosen “before the foundation of the world” (Ephesians 1:4). Why did He chose to do it this way? Because it was “according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace” (Ephesians 1:5-6). It’s important to understand that the plan of salvation is designed to glorify God, not man. Our response is to praise Him for the “glory of His grace.” If we chose our own salvation, who would get the glory? We would, and God has made it clear that He will not give the glory due to Him to anyone else (Isaiah 48:11). The question naturally arises, how do we know who has been saved “from the foundation of the world”? We don’t. That is why we take the good news of salvation through Jesus Christ to the ends of the earth, telling all to repent and receive God’s gift of grace. Second Corinthians 5:20 tells us we are to be pleading with others to be reconciled to God before it is too late. We cannot know whom God will choose to release from their prison cells of sin. We leave that choice to Him and present the gospel to all. The ones who come to Jesus He “will in no way cast out” (John 6:37). https://www.gotquestions.org/is-God-sovereign.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted January 31, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,136 Content Per Day: 4.63 Reputation: 27,816 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 31, 2017 Blessings BroZ Good to see you here......lol,you know where this is going but God Bless you for giving it another go.......you know I do not support the OSAS so all I can say is "I pray the Word be Well REceived... Its funny,I just had a brief conversation with OotS in another Thread on the same Topic,it is wonderful when someone who doe not agree with you can still see what you are saying & understand,as I can see what they are saying also We concluded that rather than go back & forth provider Scripture to supports our beliefs that we would just agree to disagree......He did understand perfecftly & respectfully,it is just delightful to REASON together It goes back to the same Merry -go-Round ride......the OSAS quickly assume you are saying it is WORKS added & not Gods Grace alone or they say what they always say "Well,then they were not Saved in the first place".... THey will not consider a 3rd option,its always an "either/or" answer & it is just not quite that simple.....satan is indeed the deceiver,father of lies,he convinced a third of Gods Heavenly Angels that the grass was greener on the other side....& unlike us ,they actually stood in the very Presence of God,in ALL His Glory in HEAVEN...& yet thy"fell" for his deception And humans,wow,we were made a little lower than the Angels....Can anyone pluck us from Jesus Hand,Absolutely NOT!!!!But the lures,traps & snares the enemy sets are certainly not to be disregarded & neither are Gods Warnings to be careful,to be diligent,vigilant,sober minded to stay awake,alert......Why would He warn us,the Believer Oh,I know it is hard to imagine ever living without Jesus but the Truth is that we must FEED the spirit that has been brought to LIFE,it is not that Sallvation can be "lost"....not at all...but that Treasure,that Precious Gift of Salvation can be returned to the GIVER,rejected.......willingly,deliberately,by choice...this is not something that just "happens"...there is no 'ooops,did I lose my Salvation?" After very slow,subtle,continual,waxing & waxing cold of the heart will eventually harden to the hardness of the Rebrobate,the Apostate...the one that makes the choice,a freewill decision to no longer serve GOD Salvation is the most Precious Gift I could have ever Received from my FATHER,His Grace has placed me in the Hands of Jesus,where no one can ever take me,,,,,,,& I will never take that for granted,I will simply stay near Him so I cannot stray or be tempted of the world and walking in Spirit & in Truth that cannot happen,keep your eyes on Jesus! All that glitters is not gold! .......Consider this friends Praise Jesus! With love-in Christ,Kwik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted January 31, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 31, 2017 1 hour ago, missmuffet said: The Bible is clear that, in his natural state, man is incapable of choosing that which is good and holy. In other words, he does not have the “free will” to choose God because his will is not free. It is constrained by his nature, just as the prisoner is constrained by his cell. Unfortunately, Got Questions is presenting Five Point Calvinism, which teaches that the power of the Gospel and the power of the Holy Spirit are insufficient to bring sinners to salvation, therefore men do NOT freely receive Christ as Savior. IOW, they teach that the elect first receive the Holy Spirit, and they they are saved. The non-elect are by-passed. This is the contrary to what the Bible teaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted January 31, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,136 Content Per Day: 4.63 Reputation: 27,816 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 31, 2017 Quote Unfortunately, Got Questions is presenting Five Point Calvinism, which teaches that the power of the Gospel and the power of the Holy Spirit are insufficient to bring sinners to salvation, therefore men do NOT freely receive Christ as Savior. IOW, they teach that the elect first receive the Holy Spirit, and they they are saved. The non-elect are by-passed. This is the contrary to what the Bible teaches. Ezra Yes ,thats one of the first things I noticed when I used to sometimes see what they had to say,then I realized it was just an answer Forum similar to Worthy & I found at what I could about "who is writing" ,so many people,volunteers etc..... seems they may have a bit different Statement of Faith than ours,"Ill stick to the Bible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted February 1, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted February 1, 2017 On 1/31/2017 at 2:12 PM, missmuffet said: Question: "Is God sovereign or do we have a free will?" Answer: When we talk about free will, we are usually concerned with the matter of salvation. Few are interested in whether we have the free will to choose salad or steak for our dinner tonight. Rather, we are troubled over who exactly is in control of our eternal destiny. Any discussion of man’s free will must begin with an understanding of his nature because man’s will is bound by that nature. A prisoner has the freedom to pace up and down in his cell, but he is constrained by the walls of that cell and can go no further, no matter how much his will might desire it. So it is with man. Because of sin, man is imprisoned within a cell of corruption and wickedness which permeates to the very core of our being. Every part of man is in bondage to sin – our bodies, our minds, and our wills. Jeremiah 17:9 tells us the state of man’s heart: it is “deceitful and desperately wicked.” In our natural, unregenerate state, we are carnally minded, not spiritually minded. “For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace because the carnal mind is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the Law of God, neither indeed can it be” (Romans 8:6-7). These verses tell us that before we are saved, we are at enmity (war) with God, we do not submit to God and His law, neither can we. The Bible is clear that, in his natural state, man is incapable of choosing that which is good and holy. In other words, he does not have the “free will” to choose God because his will is not free. It is constrained by his nature, just as the prisoner is constrained by his cell. How then can anyone be saved? Ephesians 2:1 describes the process. We who are “dead in our trespasses and sins” have been “made alive” through Christ. A dead man cannot make himself alive because he lacks the necessary power to do so. Lazarus lay in his tomb four days unable to do a thing to resurrect himself. Christ came along and commanded him to come to life (John 11). So it is with us. We are spiritually dead, unable to rise. But “while we were yet sinners Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8). He calls us out of our spiritual graves and gives us a completely new nature, one undefiled by sin as the old nature was (2 Corinthians 5:17). God saw the desperate and helpless state of our souls, and in His great love and mercy, He sovereignly chose to send His Son to the cross to redeem us. By His grace we are saved through the gift of faith which He gives us so that we can believe in Jesus. His grace is a free gift, our faith is a free gift, and our salvation is a free gift given to those whom God has chosen “before the foundation of the world” (Ephesians 1:4). Why did He chose to do it this way? Because it was “according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace” (Ephesians 1:5-6). It’s important to understand that the plan of salvation is designed to glorify God, not man. Our response is to praise Him for the “glory of His grace.” If we chose our own salvation, who would get the glory? We would, and God has made it clear that He will not give the glory due to Him to anyone else (Isaiah 48:11). The question naturally arises, how do we know who has been saved “from the foundation of the world”? We don’t. That is why we take the good news of salvation through Jesus Christ to the ends of the earth, telling all to repent and receive God’s gift of grace. Second Corinthians 5:20 tells us we are to be pleading with others to be reconciled to God before it is too late. We cannot know whom God will choose to release from their prison cells of sin. We leave that choice to Him and present the gospel to all. The ones who come to Jesus He “will in no way cast out” (John 6:37). https://www.gotquestions.org/is-God-sovereign.html 3 Do you agree with gotquestions? . Quote We cannot know whom God will choose to release from their prison cells of sin. We leave that choice to Him and present the gospel to all. The ones who come to Jesus He “will in no way cast out” (John 6:37). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted February 1, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted February 1, 2017 Alive with Christ …7in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast. Eph 2:8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacharyB Posted February 2, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 410 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 175 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 2, 2017 (edited) On 1/31/2017 at 10:56 AM, kwikphilly said: I will never take that (salvation) for granted ... Kwikster, welcome back to the goat fold. We here in the goat fold do NOT believe, heed, etc. God's warnings to believers, which resideth (butski somewhat hidden) in the NT! (Somewhat hidden to NOT frighten the baby believers too much who are on milk. (Jesus also gives a ton of warnings also ... butski to everyone!) We are proud to belong to the great and wonderful Laodicean church, who thinks it's all good whilst habitually sinning on the narrow road to heaven. Edited February 2, 2017 by ZacharyB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacharyB Posted February 2, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 410 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 175 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 2, 2017 (edited) On 1/31/2017 at 11:20 AM, Ezra said: The non-elect are by-passed. This is the contrary to what the Bible teaches. God knows who His elect (chosen ones) are. He chooses ... man does not choose. Because God must give a little seed of faith for one to be able to believe. But, the gospel has to be presented to the elect for them to accept the gospel. Ditto for the non-elect, so Jesus won't have to hear them complain, "No one ever told me!" That's why Jesus said He was sending me to evangelize both types/groups. Note: Much spiritual Truth is hidden in the NT because ... it is too unpopular, discouraging, etc. for most people to handle. Edited February 2, 2017 by ZacharyB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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