Does the gift of tongues still exist

[OakWood]

On 08/02/2017 at 6:45 PM, OneLight said:

1 Thessalonians 5:19

Do not quench the Spirit.

That is exactly what you are doing by denouncing He still gives gifts.  To say some abuse the gifts is one thing, yet to say they no longer exist is another.  To say they no longer exist is dishonoring the work of the Spirit as He does do nothing except what the Father tells him to do.  I am more then willing to accept that you would never accept a gift from the Holy Spirit due to your doubt, but remember, doubt is Satan's most valued tool to use against a believer in Christ.

No where in scripture does it tell us the gifts have ceased to exist today. 

Regardless of whether or not the gift of tongues still exists or not, it's easy to tell that these people are not really speaking in tongues because when they do I can't understand a word of it.

If you can't understand, it's not 'tongues'.

[OneLight]

1 hour ago, OakWood said:

Regardless of whether or not the gift of tongues still exists or not, it's easy to tell that these people are not really speaking in tongues because when they do I can't understand a word of it.

If you can't understand, it's not 'tongues'.

It does matter if one believes the gifts are for today or not.  Those who will, will receive, and those who do not, will not receive.  It really is that simple.  Just like if someone does not believe in Jesus, the gift of salvation is still real.  Those who do not believe in Jesus will feverishly claim that Jesus is not real.  Because they do not believe does not relinquish the truth of salvation through our Lord and Savior, Christ Jesus.  He still remains.  So with the gifts of the Holy Spirit. 

Why would there be a need for an interpreter if someone were to know the language spoken?  You have to realize that tongues are not just about Acts, but also 1 Corinthians 13 & 14 where Paul clearly states there are different tongues.  We cannot deny scripture if we hold scripture to be true ... all of it.

[OakWood]

23 minutes ago, OneLight said:

It does matter if one believes the gifts are for today or not.  Those who will, will receive, and those who do not, will not receive.  It really is that simple.  Just like if someone does not believe in Jesus, the gift of salvation is still real.  Those who do not believe in Jesus will feverishly claim that Jesus is not real.  Because they do not believe does not relinquish the truth of salvation through our Lord and Savior, Christ Jesus.  He still remains.  So with the gifts of the Holy Spirit. 

Why would there be a need for an interpreter if someone were to know the language spoken?  You have to realize that tongues are not just about Acts, but also 1 Corinthians 13 & 14 where Paul clearly states there are different tongues.  We cannot deny scripture if we hold scripture to be true ... all of it.

There is no need for an interpreter. Everybody can understand 'tongues' but only those with the gift can speak it. The whole point of speaking tongues is that whenever anybody hears it, they can understand it in their own language - a Frenchman will hear it in French, a German will hear it in German and so on. This is how the apostles spread the word of God. They travelled from nation to nation speaking to people who spoke different languages, yet they made themselves understood by speaking in 'tongues'.

If anybody claims to speak in 'tongues' and all you can hear is  foreign-sounding nonsense, then it's not 'tongues' but a demonic counterfeit.

There is no point in God creating a language that has no use. Those who claim to have a special relationship with God by praying to him in 'tongues' are deceiving themselves. They are not speaking' tongues', they just think that they are. It's a trick of Satan. God does not need a special language - he already understands every language in Earth. It's all based on pride where a person who speaks gibberish believes he has a special gift from God. If it sounds gibberish then it is gibberish.

The confusion with believing that an interpreter is needed to understand tongues is caused by the fact that the word tongue can also mean 'language' such as the Arabic tongue, or the Hebrew tongue,or the Russian tongue. So in this verse we have:

After these things I beheld, and lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations and kindreds, and people, and tongues stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with long white robes, and palms in their hands.

Revelation 7:9

It's clear that word in this passage is not referring to the language of 'tongues' but is referring to people who speak different languages.

Likewise:

And to another the operations of great works: and to another, prophecy: and to another, the discerning of spirits: and to another, diversities of tongues: and to another, the interpretation of tongues.

1st Corinthians 12:28

Notice the mention of diversity of tongues. If this is referring to the sacred language of 'tongues' then why would there be diversity? Does that mean that there are different versions of 'tongues'? Its referring to different languages - English, French, Spanish, Chinese etc.

We know that the disciples spoke a common language that could be understood by everybody where every man miraculously heard what was being said in his own language. This common language is the language known as 'tongues' and to be able to speak it is a gift from God.

And they wondered all, and marveled, saying among themselves, Behold, are not all these which speak, of Galilee?

How then hear we every man our own language, wherein we were born?Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the inhabitants of Mesopotamia, and of Judea, and of Cappadocia, of Pontus, and Asia,And of Phrygia, and Pamphylia, of Egypt, and of the parts of Libya, which is beside Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, and Jews, and Proselytes,Cretes, and Arabians: we heard them speak in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.

Acts 2:7-10

[OneLight]

9 minutes ago, OakWood said:

There is no need for an interpreter. Everybody can understand 'tongues' but only those with the gift can speak it. The whole point of speaking tongues is that whenever anybody hears it, they can understand it in their own language - a Frenchman will hear it in French, a German will hear it in German and so on. This is how the apostles spread the word of God. They travelled from nation to nation speaking to people who spoke different languages, yet they made themselves understood by speaking in 'tongues'.

If anybody claims to speak in 'tongues' and all you can hear is  foreign-sounding nonsense, then it's not 'tongues' but a demonic counterfeit.

There is no point in God creating a language that has no use. Those who claim to have a special relationship with God by praying to him in 'tongues' are deceiving themselves. They are not speaking' tongues', they just think that they are. It's a trick of Satan. God does not need a special language - he already understands every language in Earth. It's all based on pride where a person who speaks gibberish believes he has a special gift from God. If it sounds gibberish then it is gibberish.

The confusion with believing that an interpreter is needed to understand tongues is caused by the fact that the word tongue can also mean 'language' such as the Arabic tongue, or the Hebrew tongue,or the Russian tongue. So in this verse we have:

After these things I beheld, and lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations and kindreds, and people, and tongues stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with long white robes, and palms in their hands.

Revelation 7:9

It's clear that word in this passage is not referring to the language of 'tongues' but is referring to people who speak different languages.

Likewise:

And to another the operations of great works: and to another, prophecy: and to another, the discerning of spirits: and to another, diversities of tongues: and to another, the interpretation of tongues.

1st Corinthians 12:28

Notice the mention of diversity of tongues. If this is referring to the sacred language of 'tongues' then why would there be diversity? Does that mean that there are different versions of 'tongues'? Its referring to different languages - English, French, Spanish, Chinese etc.

We know that the disciples spoke a common language that could be understood by everybody where every man miraculously heard what was being said in his own language. This common language is the language known as 'tongues' and to be able to speak it is a gift from God.

And they wondered all, and marveled, saying among themselves, Behold, are not all these which speak, of Galilee?

How then hear we every man our own language, wherein we were born?Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the inhabitants of Mesopotamia, and of Judea, and of Cappadocia, of Pontus, and Asia,And of Phrygia, and Pamphylia, of Egypt, and of the parts of Libya, which is beside Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, and Jews, and Proselytes,Cretes, and Arabians: we heard them speak in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.

Acts 2:7-10

You are incorrect with your opening statement above.  Please read the follow passages in scripture found in 1 Corinthians 12 - 14  In here, you will see that there are different tongues.  You will also see that nobody understands a tongue given in another earthly language unless it is in a language one knows, which is why there needs to be an interpretation.  If someone speaks in a tongue of an angels, they will always need an interpretation. 

1 Corinthians 12:1-11

Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant:  You know that you were Gentiles, carried away to these dumb idols, however you were led.  Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.  There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.  And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.  But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

1 Corinthians 13:1-3

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.  And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.  And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned,[a] but have not love, it profits me nothing.

 

1 Corinthians 14

Prophecy and Tongues

Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.  For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.  But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men.  He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.  I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.

Tongues Must Be Interpreted

But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you unless I speak to you either by revelation, by knowledge, by prophesying, or by teaching?  Even things without life, whether flute or harp, when they make a sound, unless they make a distinction in the sounds, how will it be known what is piped or played?  For if the trumpet makes an uncertain sound, who will prepare for battle?  So likewise you, unless you utter by the tongue words easy to understand, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air.  There are, it may be, so many kinds of languages in the world, and none of them is without significance.  Therefore, if I do not know the meaning of the language, I shall be a foreigner to him who speaks, and he who speaks will be a foreigner to me.  Even so you, since you are zealous for spiritual gifts, let it be for the edification of the church that you seek to excel.

Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.  For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.  What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.  Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will he who occupies the place of the uninformed say “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you say?  For you indeed give thanks well, but the other is not edified.

I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all; yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.

Tongues a Sign to Unbelievers

Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature.

In the law it is written:

“With men of other tongues and other lips
I will speak to this people;
And yet, for all that, they will not hear Me,”

says the Lord.

Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe.  Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind?  But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an uninformed person comes in, he is convinced by all, he is convicted by all.  And thus the secrets of his heart are revealed; and so, falling down on his face, he will worship God and report that God is truly among you.

Order in Church Meetings

How is it then, brethren?  Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.  If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret.  But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.  Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge.  But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent.  For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged.  And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.  For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says.  And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.

Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached?  If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord.  But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant.

Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues.  Let all things be done decently and in order.

[OakWood]

22 minutes ago, OneLight said:

You are incorrect with your opening statement above.  Please read the follow passages in scripture found in 1 Corinthians 12 - 14  In here, you will see that there are different tongues.  You will also see that nobody understands a tongue given in another earthly language unless it is in a language one knows, which is why there needs to be an interpretation.  If someone speaks in a tongue of an angels, they will always need an interpretation. 

1 Corinthians 12:1-11

Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant:  You know that you were Gentiles, carried away to these dumb idols, however you were led.  Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.  There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.  And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.  But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

1 Corinthians 13:1-3

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.  And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.  And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned,[a] but have not love, it profits me nothing.

 

1 Corinthians 14

Prophecy and Tongues

Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.  For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.  But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men.  He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.  I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.

Tongues Must Be Interpreted

But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you unless I speak to you either by revelation, by knowledge, by prophesying, or by teaching?  Even things without life, whether flute or harp, when they make a sound, unless they make a distinction in the sounds, how will it be known what is piped or played?  For if the trumpet makes an uncertain sound, who will prepare for battle?  So likewise you, unless you utter by the tongue words easy to understand, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air.  There are, it may be, so many kinds of languages in the world, and none of them is without significance.  Therefore, if I do not know the meaning of the language, I shall be a foreigner to him who speaks, and he who speaks will be a foreigner to me.  Even so you, since you are zealous for spiritual gifts, let it be for the edification of the church that you seek to excel.

Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.  For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.  What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.  Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will he who occupies the place of the uninformed say “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you say?  For you indeed give thanks well, but the other is not edified.

I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all; yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.

Tongues a Sign to Unbelievers

Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature.

In the law it is written:

“With men of other tongues and other lips
I will speak to this people;
And yet, for all that, they will not hear Me,”

says the Lord.

Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe.  Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind?  But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an uninformed person comes in, he is convinced by all, he is convicted by all.  And thus the secrets of his heart are revealed; and so, falling down on his face, he will worship God and report that God is truly among you.

Order in Church Meetings

How is it then, brethren?  Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.  If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret.  But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.  Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge.  But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent.  For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged.  And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.  For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says.  And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.

Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached?  If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord.  But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant.

Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues.  Let all things be done decently and in order.

But what's the point of it. Why would God give somebody a gift that has no use? And how can we be sure that somebody is really speaking in tongues if we can't understand it without an interpreter? They could be making it up.

And why in the book of Acts did all these people understood what the apostles said in their own language? There were no interpreters. How can you be sure that the above scripture is not referring to language. If you substitute the word 'language' for 'tongue' in the above examples that you have given then it still makes sense. In fact it makes more sense.

It is telling us, for example, that anybody speaks in a different language then an interpreter is needed, and if an interpreter is not available then that man should keep quiet (makes sense), and it is also telling us that with men who speak different languages, only God can understand them all.

And how can speaking in tongues be a sign for the unbeliever? That makes no sense at all. All an unbeliever would hear would be gibberish unless he has an interpreter to translate for him. Anybody can do that. I could pretend to speak in a made-up foreign language, and you could pretend to translate it for me. Who would be convinced of that?

But if tongues is a miraculous language that everybody understands in their own language then that would truly astonishing... a sign to an unbeliever that there is something spiritual taking place.

 

 

[OneLight]

10 hours ago, OakWood said:

But what's the point of it. Why would God give somebody a gift that has no use? And how can we be sure that somebody is really speaking in tongues if we can't understand it without an interpreter? They could be making it up.

And why in the book of Acts did all these people understood what the apostles said in their own language? There were no interpreters. How can you be sure that the above scripture is not referring to language. If you substitute the word 'language' for 'tongue' in the above examples that you have given then it still makes sense. In fact it makes more sense.

It is telling us, for example, that anybody speaks in a different language then an interpreter is needed, and if an interpreter is not available then that man should keep quiet (makes sense), and it is also telling us that with men who speak different languages, only God can understand them all.

And how can speaking in tongues be a sign for the unbeliever? That makes no sense at all. All an unbeliever would hear would be gibberish unless he has an interpreter to translate for him. Anybody can do that. I could pretend to speak in a made-up foreign language, and you could pretend to translate it for me. Who would be convinced of that?

But if tongues is a miraculous language that everybody understands in their own language then that would truly astonishing... a sign to an unbeliever that there is something spiritual taking place.

 

 

The point is this is one way that God uses these gifts to bring messages to the body.  This is what He has set up.  It takes faith in the gifts, including being close enough to feel the Holy Spirit in order to determine if the message is real or not.  I would venture to say that this is why so many false teachers and prophets go wrong, they are not close enough to Him to know test the spirits.

The book of Acts portrays the gift when addressing people of other tongues, foreigners.  Those who spoke did so in the native language of those who were listening without even knowing the language.  This is one way the Holy Spirit bring forth His message to all.

Unbelievers would see the faith in those who believe through the use of the gifts, yes, even tongues.  They wold be like everyone else if there were nobody to interpret.  Yes, you could fake it, as many do, and that would be an offense against God, not man. 

I would also add that there is one more way the Spirit speaks using tongues.  That is in prayer.  I pray a lot in tongues and have the faith in Him that it is for my best, even if I never know what is being prayed for.

[Anonymous Aristotle]

On 2/3/2017 at 1:56 PM, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

Does the gift of tongues still exist today? Charismatics make a big deal of the gift of tongues. But does it still exist today and WHAT is it?

Now in Acts 2:6, and 9-11 you see very clearly that the gift of tongues was in known earthly languages.

WHAT was the gift of tongues for? To edify the church before the unbeliever (1 Cor 14:4,22). This was necessary in a time when Scripture hadn’t been fully committed to paper. Many commentators generally believe that the gift didn’t last much more than 20 years or so. At worst it didn’t last beyond the writing of Revelation.

When Revelation was written, the canon was completed, closed, and since that time Scripture edifies ITSELF without any other help.

Many Charismatics believe that you need tongues as a sign of salvation. But salvation is solely dependent on your profession of faith. Also many people in the bible did NOT receive the gift of tongues and tongues was pretty much at the bottom of the list of importance to begin with (Romans 10:9-10, 1 Cor 12:30, 1 Cor 14:19, 1 Cor 12:28)

Charismatics will use 1 Cor 14 to defend their stance on unknown prayer tongues. They will also use Paul’s reference to tongues of angels (1 Cor 13:1) to the same effect.

Paul was basically rebuking the Corinthians for being too showy, seeking only the showy signs gifts because they wanted to look good in the eyes of the unbelievers. The Corinthian church may also have taken part in the excesses of the modern Charismatic church, with their pagan babbling nonsense and other ungodly practices prevalent on some of today’s Charismatic churches, blasphemously called “the anointing”.

Paul in 1 Cor 14 speaks of an unknown tongue, a word that doesn’t exist in the original Greek but was added to separate EARTHLY tongues where there were translators immediately present from EARTHLY tongues where no translator was present.

Paul here is clear that if a tongues speaker wishes to speak, they must speak only with an interpreter, and not all at once. (1 Cor 14:23,27)

GUYS... YOU CANT INTERPRET BABBLING GIBBERISH!!! Someone show me please where in the bible do you see references to tongues as babbling nonsense? Such a thing has long since been PROVEN as being pure paganism

There are Charismatics who believe they have the “gift” of interpretation, but THAT IS PURE FANTASY.

Paul’s reference to tongues of angels also doesn’t work because there are no tongues of angels. Paul was merely using hyperbole in making his point about doing all sorts of great and wonderful things which don’t mean a blessed thing without love.

I hope here I have thus proven my point. The gift of tongues was only a first century gift and doesnt legitimately exist today. Do not be like the wicked and adulterous generation who seeks after signs.

God can do anything.   Therefore, my answer to your question is yes. 

Though there are a lot of fakers out there. And the one's I've seen are on TV. So that it becomes really obvious when they launch into that misleading performance for $ not the salvation of lost souls. 

[JohnD]

Does the gift of tongues still exist?

Anyone who has read my uncorrected typing never has any doubt.