The Abomination of Desolation

[Retrobyter]

On 3/11/2017 at 9:01 PM, Sister said:

Hello Retrobyter

I mentioned Enoch.  You said I was being gullible for even considering his writings and to be careful.  Careful of what?  I say man has taken over the kingdom by trying to dictate and set their own rules, what we can read and what we cannot.  Man will not let us search for ourselves, because they say this is the canon and do not venture outside.  Not only have they done this with the other books, but also with the canon. 

Careful of what?! Of believing what is NOT TRUE! Of using what is NOT TRUE to add to your doctrinal belief system, which will invariably mess up your doctrinal belief system!

Secondly, WHAT "kingdom?!" It's NOT HERE, YET! We are in anticipation for the Kingdom's arrival, but the Kingdom does not begin until the KING returns!

Quoting Yeshua`, I remind you:

Luke 19:11-15
11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
...
KJV

Quote

Well I am not venturing outside, because Enoch was a great prophet in his time and God mentioned him. 

To be mentioned does NOT mean that God endorsed writings attributed to him (which were probably NOT written by him)! Don't you understand, yet? We are talking about THOUSANDS of years ago! It's hard to find ANYTHING that is still recognizable, let alone writing! Even the bones of dinosaurs are rare! Most are casts of those bones filled in with sedimentary rock! And, we are talking about a catastrophic, world-wide Flood in between! Even if his writings were preserved in the Great Pyramid, they would not be so preserved once unsealed from that stone ediface.

Quote

Now the scribes and pharisees thought they had it all figured out before Jesus was even killed.  They said Christ was a deceiver.  They said this because they hate truth.  They prefer their traditions and have the people come to them for instruction instead of "the Word".  The same is happening today.  You think that we cannot understand simple scripture unless we go through the learned who know the Hebrew and the Greek?  They are doing the same and cannot see it.  The spirit of God reveals the truth to us, not men.  God does not speak only one or two languages, but speaks to us all in our own tongue regarding truth.  The truth is a universal language, but no we have to go through the learned?  They are still claiming to have authority over the kingdom. 

This is all chaos Retro.  You take one thing I say, and write a long post going all over the place, distracting from our original conversation.  What you used to back yourself up was interpreted incorrectly on both points.  The kingdom of God was not only offered to the Jews.  They rejected Christ yes, but the gentiles today also refuse.  They are making the same mistake in trusting the modern day scribes and pharisees.  History is repeating itself but on a much larger scale.

I've said what I've said and I'll say no more. You can believe what you choose to believe, but I've told you what the gospel of the Kingdom is and that should be our focus, not this misdirection.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

12 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Secondly, WHAT "kingdom?!" It's NOT HERE, YET!.

“But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.” Luke 11:20

“Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” Mt 3:2

“And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'” Mt 10:7

“Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” Luke 17:21

The various Kingdom passages do not define the bounds of space and time for God's Kingdom with any accuracy.  These verses contradict your attempt to limit the Kingdom of God to the future only.

The quotes I have provided show that the realization of God's Kingdom with Jesus' victory over the Rule of Man, while not achieved, still does not mean that we are not surrounded by His Kingdom in other ways.

As far as the Book of Enoch, since the Apostles reference it, it is Scripture.  Our only problem is that we don't have a reliable copy of it so that it was included in the Council of Nicea and subsequent rulings.  It is not Canonical only according to Man.

You cannot define the boundaries of the Kingdom of God and Heaven in Scripture.

[Sister]

10 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

“But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.” Luke 11:20

“Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” Mt 3:2

“And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'” Mt 10:7

“Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” Luke 17:21

The various Kingdom passages do not define the bounds of space and time for God's Kingdom with any accuracy.  These verses contradict your attempt to limit the Kingdom of God to the future only.

The quotes I have provided show that the realization of God's Kingdom with Jesus' victory over the Rule of Man, while not achieved, still does not mean that we are not surrounded by His Kingdom in other ways.

As far as the Book of Enoch, since the Apostles reference it, it is Scripture.  Our only problem is that we don't have a reliable copy of it so that it was included in the Council of Nicea and subsequent rulings.  It is not Canonical only according to Man.

You cannot define the boundaries of the Kingdom of God and Heaven in Scripture.

Thank you Marcus.

[Sister]

On 07/03/2017 at 0:54 PM, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Sister.

Please don't be gullible. We do NOT "know Enoch was taken up in the spirit to heaven." What we KNOW from the Scriptures (and ONLY from the Scriptures) is that Enoch "walked with God: and he was not; for God took him," and that Enoch "was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him."

Hello Retrobyter

Please consider, this is not just for you, but for anyone else that might want to consider;

 

No man can see the face of God and live.

Exodus 33:20   And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

As God said to Moses, this is true.  "Flesh" cannot behold the face of God.  (God's face is too bright, and that brightness would kill us)

Only spirit can see God's face, ie the angels and heavenly creatures.  Those in the spirit realm.

.....but Enoch testifies that he saw God's face?

Secrets of Enoch

 

22:1  On the tenth Heaven, Aravoth, I saw the appearance of the Lord's face, like iron made to glow in fire, and brought out, emitting sparks, and it burns.

22:2  Thus I saw the Lord's face, but the Lord's face is ineffable, marvellous and very awful, and very, very terrible.

 

So you see a contradiction, but I don't....

For God had to "translate" Enoch from "flesh to spirit"  in order to show him his face. 

 

 

 

22:8  And the Lord said to Michael: 'Go and take Enoch from out his earthly garments, and anoint him with my sweet oinment, and put him into the garments of My glory.'

22:9  And Michael did thus as the Lord told him.  He anointed me, and dressed me, and the appearance of that ointment is more that the great light, and his ointment is like sweet dew, and its smell mild, shining like the sun's ray, and I looked at myself, and was like one of his glorious ones.

Enoch's earthly garments is his "skin", ...."flesh".

That "flesh" was taken off Enoch, and he was dressed in "spirit".  He is now "translated" from flesh to spirit, and is like an angel now in heaven, standing before God.  He can behold God's face now.

Which is why he doesn't "see death", because he's "translated.  If not "translated" he would of DIED.

 

 Hebrews 11:5   By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

 

Now before Enoch was taken up, he was sleeping on his couch, and dreaming in distress, also crying in his sleep.  Then 2 angels appeared to him and told him that God sent them to take him up to heaven that day.  He wasn't to be taken up in a vision or dream, like all the other prophets, but IN REAL.   The angels instructed Enoch to tell his family not to look for him, so when they left Enoch informed his family that he would be departing soon, and not to look for him because he was not going to be around.  That's why he was not found.

Enoch walked with God whilst he was alive.  Which is why he was chosen. 

68:1.  Enoch was born on the sixth day of the month Tsivan, and lived three hundred and sixty five years.

68:2  He was taken up to heaven on the first day of the month Tsivan and remained in heaven sixty days.

68:3  He wrote all these signs of all creation, which the Lord created, and wrote three hundred and sixty six books, and handed them over to his sons and remained on earth thirty days, and was again taken up to heaven on the sixth day of the month Tsivan, on the very day and hour when he was born.

68:4  As every man's nature in this life is dark, so are also conception, birth, and departure from this life.

68:5  At what hour he was conceived, at that hour he was born, and at that hour too he died.

68:6  Methosalam and his brethren, all the sons of Enoch, made haste, and erected an altar at the place called Achuzan, whence and where Enoch had been take up to heaven.

68:7  And they took sacrifical oxen and summoned all people and sacrificed the sacrifice before the Lord's face.

68:8  All people, the elders of the people and the whole assembly came to the feast and brought gifts to the sons of Enoch.

68:9  And they made a great feast, rejoicing and making merry three days, praising God, who had given them such a sign through Enoch, who had found favour with him, and that they should hand it on to their sons from generation to generation, from age to age.

68:10  Amen.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Sister

[Retrobyter]

6 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

“But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.” Luke 11:20

“Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” Mt 3:2

“And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'” Mt 10:7

“Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” Luke 17:21

The various Kingdom passages do not define the bounds of space and time for God's Kingdom with any accuracy.  These verses contradict your attempt to limit the Kingdom of God to the future only.

The quotes I have provided show that the realization of God's Kingdom with Jesus' victory over the Rule of Man, while not achieved, still does not mean that we are not surrounded by His Kingdom in other ways.

As far as the Book of Enoch, since the Apostles reference it, it is Scripture.  Our only problem is that we don't have a reliable copy of it so that it was included in the Council of Nicea and subsequent rulings.  It is not Canonical only according to Man.

You cannot define the boundaries of the Kingdom of God and Heaven in Scripture.

Shalom, Marcus.

Okay, I know I've said this before, but it's been a while. I know that the forum needs to hear it again from time to time, but it is frustrating and disappointing, nonetheless. How many times ...?

First, one needs to understand that "AT hand" does NOT mean "IN hand" as though God's Kingdom was already IN hand. It means that it is "within one's grasp." It means that it is close enough for someone to reach out and take it.

The Greek word translated as "is at hand" in Matthew 3:2; 4:17; and Mark 1:15 is "eeggiken," a form of "eggus" (NT:1451), which means "has drawn near."  These Greek words comes from...

NT:1448 eggizoo (eng-id'-zo); from NT:1451; to make near, i.e. (reflexively) approach:
KJV - approach, be at hand, come (draw) near, be (come, draw) nigh.

NT:1451 eggus (eng-goos'); from a primary verb agchoo (to squeeze or throttle; akin to the base of NT:43); near (literally or figuratively, of place or time):
KJV - from at hand, near, nigh (at hand, unto), ready.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

 

Second, one must realize that this offer of the Kingdom was to ISRAEL, particularly to the JEWS (the tribe of Y'HUDAH or JUDAH) first, since they were HIS tribe and should have realized that He was THEIR Messiah - the Anointed One to be King from THEIR tribe.

Matthew 15:24
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
KJV

 

Third, when the offer was rejected, the offer was RESCINDED! It WON'T be offered again UNTIL THEY can welcome Him back!

Matthew 23:29-39
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell (Greek: ge-enna = Hebrew: gei-Hinnom = the Judgment of the King in the valley of Hinnom)?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
KJV

 

Now, let's open up some of your quotes to their contexts:

Luke 11:14-32
14 And he was casting out a devil, and it was dumb. And it came to pass, when the devil was gone out, the dumb spake; and the people wondered.
15 But some of them said, He casteth out devils through Beelzebub the chief of the devils.
16 And others, tempting him, sought of him a sign from heaven.
17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.
18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.
19 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges.
20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.
21 When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:
22 But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.
23 He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.
24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
25 And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
26 Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.
27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.
28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.
30 For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation.
31 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
32 The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
KJV

So, Yeshua` was still in a battle with the leaders of the Jews and had not, as yet, been totally rejected nor had He denounced them as "desolate," rescinding His offer of the Kingdom. This verse comes BEFORE the rejection; so, His offer was still on the table: The Kingdom was still within their reach.

The Greek word for "is come" is "efthasen," the aorist, indicative, active-voice participle of fthanoo in the 3rd person, singular form:

NT:5348 fthanoo (fthan'-o); apparently a primary verb; to be beforehand, i.e. anticipate or precede; by extension, to have arrived at:
KJV - (already) attain, come, prevent.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

Thus, it was LOOMING OVER them! But, these were not the "good guys," here! These were the ones leaning toward REJECTING God's Choice for their King! Why would THEY already be in His Kingdom?! No, again, this just proves that they never had a closer chance to accept the Kingdom ... which they ultimately rejected!

 

Matthew 10:1-11:1
1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach (Greek: keerussete = "you-herald"), saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand (within your grasp).
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, inquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.
12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.
13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.
24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.
25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?
26 Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.
27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.
32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
41 He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.
42 And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.
11 And it came to pass, when Jesus had made an end of commanding his twelve disciples, he departed thence to teach and to preach in their cities.
KJV

Mark 6:1-32
1 And he went out from thence, and came into his own country; and his disciples follow him.
2 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?
3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
4 But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.
5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.
6 And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.
7 And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;
8 And commanded them that they should take nothing for their journey, save a staff only; no scrip, no bread, no money in their purse:
9 But be shod with sandals; and not put on two coats.
10 And he said unto them, In what place soever ye enter into an house, there abide till ye depart from that place.
11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.
13 And they cast out many devils, and anointed with oil many that were sick, and healed them.
...  (Later,...)
30 And the apostles gathered themselves together unto Jesus, and told him all things, both what they had done, and what they had taught.
31 And he said unto them, Come ye yourselves apart into a desert place, and rest a while: for there were many coming and going, and they had no leisure so much as to eat.
32 And they departed into a desert place by ship privately.
KJV

Luke 9:1-10
1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.
2 And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.
3 And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece.
4 And whatsoever house ye enter into, there abide, and thence depart.
5 And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.
6 And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where.
... (Later,...)
10 And the apostles, when they were returned, told him all that they had done. And he took them, and went aside privately into a desert place belonging to the city called Bethsaida.
KJV

The message of the Kingdom of God being offered to the children of Israel (especially the Jews) was punctuated by the miracles that His disciples could now do. These miracles were the authentication and the verification that God Himself gave to the message they heralded!

I've gotta go for now, but Luke 17:21 is TOTALLY ripped ... no, YANKED ... out of context and misapplied to give it this interpretation! I'll speak to that later.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

18 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Marcus.

Okay, I know I've said this before, but it's been a while. I know that the forum needs to hear it again from time to time, but it is frustrating and disappointing, nonetheless. How many times ...?

First, one needs to understand that "AT hand" does NOT mean "IN hand" as though God's Kingdom was already IN hand. It means that it is "within one's grasp." It means that it is close enough for someone to reach out and take it.

The Greek word translated as "is at hand" in Matthew 3:2; 4:17; and Mark 1:15 is "eeggiken," a form of "eggus" (NT:1451), which means "has drawn near."  These Greek words comes from...

NT:1448 eggizoo (eng-id'-zo); from NT:1451; to make near, i.e. (reflexively) approach:
KJV - approach, be at hand, come (draw) near, be (come, draw) nigh.

NT:1451 eggus (eng-goos'); from a primary verb agchoo (to squeeze or throttle; akin to the base of NT:43); near (literally or figuratively, of place or time):
KJV - from at hand, near, nigh (at hand, unto), ready.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

 

Second, one must realize that this offer of the Kingdom was to ISRAEL, particularly to the JEWS (the tribe of Y'HUDAH or JUDAH) first, since they were HIS tribe and should have realized that He was THEIR Messiah - the Anointed One to be King from THEIR tribe.

Matthew 15:24
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
KJV

 

Third, when the offer was rejected, the offer was RESCINDED! It WON'T be offered again UNTIL THEY can welcome Him back!

Matthew 23:29-39
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell (Greek: ge-enna = Hebrew: gei-Hinnom = the Judgment of the King in the valley of Hinnom)?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
KJV

 

Now, let's open up some of your quotes to their contexts:

Luke 11:14-32
14 And he was casting out a devil, and it was dumb. And it came to pass, when the devil was gone out, the dumb spake; and the people wondered.
15 But some of them said, He casteth out devils through Beelzebub the chief of the devils.
16 And others, tempting him, sought of him a sign from heaven.
17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.
18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.
19 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges.
20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.
21 When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:
22 But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.
23 He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.
24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
25 And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
26 Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.
27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.
28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.
30 For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation.
31 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
32 The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
KJV

So, Yeshua` was still in a battle with the leaders of the Jews and had not, as yet, been totally rejected nor had He denounced them as "desolate," rescinding His offer of the Kingdom. This verse comes BEFORE the rejection; so, His offer was still on the table: The Kingdom was still within their reach.

The Greek word for "is come" is "efthasen," the aorist, indicative, active-voice participle of fthanoo in the 3rd person, singular form:

NT:5348 fthanoo (fthan'-o); apparently a primary verb; to be beforehand, i.e. anticipate or precede; by extension, to have arrived at:
KJV - (already) attain, come, prevent.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

Thus, it was LOOMING OVER them! But, these were not the "good guys," here! These were the ones leaning toward REJECTING God's Choice for their King! Why would THEY already be in His Kingdom?! No, again, this just proves that they never had a closer chance to accept the Kingdom ... which they ultimately rejected!

 

Matthew 10:1-11:1
1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach (Greek: keerussete = "you-herald"), saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand (within your grasp).
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, inquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.
12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.
13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.
24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.
25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?
26 Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.
27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.
32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
41 He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.
42 And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.
11 And it came to pass, when Jesus had made an end of commanding his twelve disciples, he departed thence to teach and to preach in their cities.
KJV

Mark 6:1-32
1 And he went out from thence, and came into his own country; and his disciples follow him.
2 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?
3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
4 But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.
5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.
6 And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.
7 And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;
8 And commanded them that they should take nothing for their journey, save a staff only; no scrip, no bread, no money in their purse:
9 But be shod with sandals; and not put on two coats.
10 And he said unto them, In what place soever ye enter into an house, there abide till ye depart from that place.
11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.
13 And they cast out many devils, and anointed with oil many that were sick, and healed them.
...  (Later,...)
30 And the apostles gathered themselves together unto Jesus, and told him all things, both what they had done, and what they had taught.
31 And he said unto them, Come ye yourselves apart into a desert place, and rest a while: for there were many coming and going, and they had no leisure so much as to eat.
32 And they departed into a desert place by ship privately.
KJV

Luke 9:1-10
1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.
2 And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.
3 And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece.
4 And whatsoever house ye enter into, there abide, and thence depart.
5 And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.
6 And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where.
... (Later,...)
10 And the apostles, when they were returned, told him all that they had done. And he took them, and went aside privately into a desert place belonging to the city called Bethsaida.
KJV

The message of the Kingdom of God being offered to the children of Israel (especially the Jews) was punctuated by the miracles that His disciples could now do. These miracles were the authentication and the verification that God Himself gave to the message they heralded!

I've gotta go for now, but Luke 17:21 is TOTALLY ripped ... no, YANKED ... out of context and misapplied to give it this interpretation! I'll speak to that later.

Brevity is the soul of wit, and I think you lose the forest looking so close at the tree bark.

The Kingdom of God is already here, and is still to be in place.  It's kind of like God in my way of thinking: timeless.

And the Book of Enoch, from what I remember of it, did describe a topography to Heaven.  And I have always thought Heaven to be just as "real" as the earth God created, and again, despite all your long-winded arguments delving into the minutia of words to the contrary.

Sometimes it just comes down to a heart issue and figuring out that we don't, and perhaps can't know it all.

[Retrobyter]

23 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

Brevity is the soul of wit, and I think you lose the forest looking so close at the tree bark.

The Kingdom of God is already here, and is still to be in place.  It's kind of like God in my way of thinking: timeless.

And the Book of Enoch, from what I remember of it, did describe a topography to Heaven.  And I have always thought Heaven to be just as "real" as the earth God created, and again, despite all your long-winded arguments delving into the minutia of words to the contrary.

Sometimes it just comes down to a heart issue and figuring out that we don't, and perhaps can't know it all.

Shalom, Marcus.

Sorry, but the Kingdom of God is NOT "already here," "timeless" or otherwise! While we can be making people into

subjects for His Kingdom right now in anticipation for His Kingdom's arrival, His Kingdom will NOT be present until the KING is bodily present! It doesn't arrive until the King BRINGS IT WITH HIM. It is NO LONGER "at hand." It is NO LONGER "within their grasp!"

As far as "brevity," skip the Scriptures, if you wish, and just read what I wrote. But, I support almost everything I say WITH Scripture, and I LOVE to read Scripture; so, I don't intend to change. I also take the Scriptures VERY seriously, and dig deeply to be sure that I understand the Scriptures AS WRITTEN, in the languages in which they were written. I quote enough Scripture (1) to complete thoughts, (2) to show that the author of the Scripture passage had the same thought in mind (i.e., showing that I am not arresting the Scriptures to say what I want them to say [eisegesis] but to show that I'm taking the ideas FROM the Scriptures [exegesis]), and (3) to provide additional proof, in case a particular passage doesn't convince the open-minded. Those who are closed-minded to the arguments I provide, will most likely CONTINUE to be closed-minded. And, that's okay; they will only change their minds if and when God moves them to do so, provided they become willing to be open-minded to God's direction.

With that in mind, here's support for what I said in the first paragraph:

Luke 19:11-28
11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.
25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)
26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
(YESHUA` the Messiah [Jesus the Christ] said that!)
28 And when he had thus spoken, he went before, ascending up to Jerusalem.
KJV

Matthew 25:31-46
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, THEN shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
KJV

The first may be a parable, but the second passage is a prophecy, and the parable should reflect enough of the literal scene it represents to be a valid representation. Therefore, it is not until the Messiah RETURNS that He sits upon His throne!

23 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Quote

“Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” Luke 17:21

I've gotta go for now, but Luke 17:21 is TOTALLY ripped ... no, YANKED ... out of context and misapplied to give it this interpretation! I'll speak to that later.

Now, regarding this verse, let's look at the context of this verse:

Luke 17:20-21
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
KJV

First, one should note that Yeshua` was talking to the P'rushiym (Pharisees), not to the disciples. Using the argument that the Kingdom of God (as described by many well-meaning Christians today) is present now in each one of us, would Yeshua` have said that the Kingdom of God is within each one of THEM?! Unlikely!

However, what is important is that this is the passage as it appears in the King James Version, which uses the "thee's" and "thou's" and "ye's" as well as "you's."

Here is the Modern English 2nd Person chart (with examples):

Singular
Subjective: THOU: Thou shalt not kill. (Exodus 20:13)
Objective: THEE: God shall smite thee. (Acts 23:3)
Possessive pronoun: THINE: All that I have is thine. (Luke 15:31)
Possessive adjective: THY: Thy word is truth. (John 17:17)

Plural
Subjective: YE: Ye shall live. (Romans 8:13)
Objective: YOU: Nothing shall by any means hurt you. (Luke 10:19)
Possessive pronoun: YOURS: The good of all the land of Egypt is yours. (Gen. 45:20)
Possessive adjective: YOUR: Flee, save your lives. (Jeremiah 48:6)

Therefore, it is SIGNIFICANT that this passage uses the word "YOU" in verse 21. It is a PLURAL word. He is not talking to each one of them; He is talking to them COLLECTIVELY as a GROUP!

I should also mention that the Greek word for "you" here is "humoon," the plural of the second person.

The Greek word "entos," which is here translated as "within," can also be translated as "inside" or "among" (as noted in the NIV) or "in your midst" (as noted in the NASB).

NT:1787 entos (en-tos'); from NT:1722; inside (adverb or noun):
KJV - within.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

Because He is talking to them COLLECTIVELY as a GROUP, it makes more sense that He is saying "AMONG" you, rather than "within" you. What He is saying is that the Kingdom of God is among them as a group BECAUSE the KING is right there among them as a group!

Yeshua` was saying, "You don't have to go looking for God's Kingdom here or there; LOOK! Its KING - the EMBODIMENT of the Kingdom - is right here among you! (Just accept me!)"

However, again, when they rejected Him, He LEFT them, by death, resurrection and ascension, and left them DESOLATE, taking the Kingdom with Him!

Finally, regarding the Book of Enoch, IF it indeed "did describe a topography to Heaven," that fact only serves to LESSEN its credibility to me, for its author (who probably was NOT "Enoch") changed the way that "shaamayim" was used in the OT Scriptures.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Retrobyter
to add the Greek for "you"

[Marcus O'Reillius]

11 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Sorry, but the Kingdom of God is NOT "already here," "timeless" or otherwise! While we can be making people into subjects for His Kingdom right now in anticipation for His Kingdom's arrival, His Kingdom will NOT be present until the KING is bodily present! It doesn't arrive until the King BRINGS IT WITH HIM. It is NO LONGER "at hand." It is NO LONGER "within their grasp!"

So what was "at hand" is no longer "at hand?"  The devil may be in the details, and I'll let you go into details on that reasoning.

And again, this is just another in a long list of things that you think is so that I don't think is so.

And no amount of arguing on your behalf with long, wordy explanations, and selective word definition - the bark of the trees - is going to "win" your argument.

You might as well tell me the New Jerusalem is a pyramid instead of a cube; whatever fancy you come up with won't have any impact upon what is written, what will be, nor what I think about any particular subject.

[Sister]

15 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Because He is talking to them COLLECTIVELY as a GROUP, it makes more sense that He is saying "AMONG" you, rather than "within" you. What He is saying is that the Kingdom of God is among them as a group BECAUSE the KING is right there among them as a group!

Yeshua` was saying, "You don't have to go looking for God's Kingdom here or there; LOOK! Its KING - the EMBODIMENT of the Kingdom - is right here among you! (Just accept me!)"

However, again, when they rejected Him, He LEFT them, by death, resurrection and ascension, and left them DESOLATE, taking the Kingdom with Him!

 

Luke 17:20   And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

  Luke 17:21   Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

 

Hi Retro

John 14:23   Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

 

The pharisees are thinking carnal, they will only believe if they see with their eyes.

But we who believe do so because of faith, having received the truth, the kingdom of God is within our hearts.  That's where we will find it, inside us, as it becomes a part of us.  The rest comes later.  Seek and ye shall find.

 

"The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:"

That invisible light we are given is the truth.  It first has to enter into our heart.  We need this one first. 

Don't look for a building, or look for the Messiah to believe, but look for the truth, what he teaches us.

 

  Matthew 6:33   But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

 

[Retrobyter]

8 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

So what was "at hand" is no longer "at hand?"  The devil may be in the details, and I'll let you go into details on that reasoning.

And again, this is just another in a long list of things that you think is so that I don't think is so.

And no amount of arguing on your behalf with long, wordy explanations, and selective word definition - the bark of the trees - is going to "win" your argument.

You might as well tell me the New Jerusalem is a pyramid instead of a cube; whatever fancy you come up with won't have any impact upon what is written, what will be, nor what I think about any particular subject.

Shalom, Marcus.

Y'know, you COULD try to look at the "long list of things that I think is so" with an open mind for once and see that it's not that far fetched.

Oh, and by the way, I think I DID tell you the New Jerusalem will be a pyramid instead of a cube, didn't I? As far as what the Scriptures say about it, Yochanan (John) said,

Revelation 21:16
16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
KJV

And, that phrase means that the city LIES on a plot of ground with four square angles. It does NOT mean a "cube!"

Then, he had also said, "The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal." That does NOT dictate a city that is a cube! It dictates a FRAME for the city that is a cube. However, the city is said to be "12,000 furlongs" or 12,000 Greek stadia. The Greek "stadion" comes from the Roman world. In Latin, it is the "stadium" and it is 607.14 feet in length. (According to Wikipedia.)

12,000 stadia x (607.14 feet / 1 stadium) x (1 mile / 5,280 feet) = 1,379.86364 miles in length = 1,379 miles 4,560 feet.

If one assumes that the New Earth will have similar dimensions to the old one, the circumference at the equator will be aproximately 24,902 miles.

360 degrees / 24,902 miles = X degrees / 1,379.86364 miles.

X = 1,379.86364 miles x 360 degrees / 24,902 miles = 19.948 degrees of the New Earth's circumference at the equator.

Each time zone is approximately 360 degrees / 24 hours = 15 degrees of the New Earth's circumference at the equator. So, this distance is a little shy of 1-1/3 time zones!

Now, do you understand that 19.948 degrees is the difference between the direction for "down" at the center gate on one side of the city and the direction for "down" at the center gate on the opposite side of the city? Do you know what that does to a "cube?!" By mileage, the city spreads out at the top and becomes TRAPEZOIDAL, with the top base much longer than the bottom base. Either the top distance is physically too long, or the bottom distance is physically too short.

IF the city is held to be a true cube, then its MEASUREMENTS are off. The top distance would cover far less than a true 1,379.86364 miles at the bottom. 

If the top distance is held to the 1,379.86364 miles, then the bottom distance would cover far less than the 1,379.86364 miles.

And, don't think that the New Jerusalem is going to be orbiting the New Earth like a satellite. We also find above that the city LIES on that square plot of ground! And, we read,...

Revelation 21:24-26
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
KJV

Furthermore, a satellite has little stability and we are told...

Revelation 21:12-13
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
KJV

How can there be "three eastern gates, three northern gates, three southern gates, and three western gates" on an unstable city? See, a satellite in orbit is constantly falling. That's the definition of an orbit. It's a trajectory that allows the satellite to continually fall toward the earth without hitting the earth since the surface of the earth is falling away from the satellite at the same velocity as the object is falling.

Some are so bent on the "fact" that the New Jerusalem is supposed to be in the shape of the Holy of Holies, but there's no such requirement in the Scriptures anywhere. A better representation is the stone cut out of the mountain that grows until it becomes a great mountain:

Daniel 2:34-35, 45
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
...
45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.
KJV

This stone was CUT out of the mountain; it was quarried from the mountain giving it flat sides! It was a stone that simply grew until it became a great mountain. The shape of such a stone could certainly be a pyramid!

Nebuchadnezzar (Nebuchadrezzar) certainly knew about the pyramids of Egypt. He had also captured Pharoah-necho in close conjunction and prior to the capture of Judah (Jer. 44:30; Jer. 46:2; Ezek. 29:19; Ezek. 30:10).

And, Yeshua` (Jesus) was called "the head stone of the corner" or the "chief corner stone." (Psalm 118:22; Eph. 2:20; 1 Pet. 2:6). This is not talking about some stone in the corner of a building's foundation; it's talking about a CAPSTONE of a pyramid!

The obvious place for God's Throne in a cube would be at the center of the cube. The obvious place for God's Throne in a pyramid would be at the capstone!

Follow the river! The river of the water of life issues from God's Throne and travels down through the center of the street in the median of the street:

Revelation 22:1-2
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
KJV

In a cube, how does the water of the river get to the parts of the city that are higher than the center of the city? In a pyramid, the water flows naturally downward throughout the city and, since presumably the streets lead to the gates, out the gates of the city onto the New Earth, watering the New Earth with a great river system!

Like the Garden of Eden, where we read,

Genesis 2:10-14
10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
KJV

In God's FUTURE Paradise (Garden of Trees), the river is parted into TWELVE heads, each flowing out of one of the gates and watering the whole surface of the New Earth!

Don't make a decision, yet. Just think about it.