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The Abomination of Desolation


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10 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Marcus.

Y'know, you COULD try to look at the "long list of things that I think is so" with an open mind for once and see that it's not that far fetched.

Oh, and by the way, I think I DID tell you the New Jerusalem will be a pyramid instead of a cube, didn't I? As far as what the Scriptures say about it, Yochanan (John) said,

Revelation 21:16
16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
KJV

And, that phrase means that the city LIES on a plot of ground with four square angles. It does NOT mean a "cube!"

Then, he had also said, "The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal." That does NOT dictate a city that is a cube! It dictates a FRAME for the city that is a cube. However, the city is said to be "12,000 furlongs" or 12,000 Greek stadia. The Greek "stadion" comes from the Roman world. In Latin, it is the "stadium" and it is 607.14 feet in length. (According to Wikipedia.)

12,000 stadia x (607.14 feet / 1 stadium) x (1 mile / 5,280 feet) = 1,379.86364 miles in length = 1,379 miles 4,560 feet.

If one assumes that the New Earth will have similar dimensions to the old one, the circumference at the equator will be aproximately 24,902 miles.

360 degrees / 24,902 miles = X degrees / 1,379.86364 miles.

X = 1,379.86364 miles x 360 degrees / 24,902 miles = 19.948 degrees of the New Earth's circumference at the equator.

Each time zone is approximately 360 degrees / 24 hours = 15 degrees of the New Earth's circumference at the equator. So, this distance is a little shy of 1-1/3 time zones!

Now, do you understand that 19.948 degrees is the difference between the direction for "down" at the center gate on one side of the city and the direction for "down" at the center gate on the opposite side of the city? Do you know what that does to a "cube?!" By mileage, the city spreads out at the top and becomes TRAPEZOIDAL, with the top base much longer than the bottom base. Either the top distance is physically too long, or the bottom distance is physically too short.

IF the city is held to be a true cube, then its MEASUREMENTS are off. The top distance would cover far less than a true 1,379.86364 miles at the bottom. 

If the top distance is held to the 1,379.86364 miles, then the bottom distance would cover far less than the 1,379.86364 miles.

And, don't think that the New Jerusalem is going to be orbiting the New Earth like a satellite. We also find above that the city LIES on that square plot of ground! And, we read,...

Revelation 21:24-26
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
KJV

Furthermore, a satellite has little stability and we are told...

Revelation 21:12-13
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
KJV

How can there be "three eastern gates, three northern gates, three southern gates, and three western gates" on an unstable city? See, a satellite in orbit is constantly falling. That's the definition of an orbit. It's a trajectory that allows the satellite to continually fall toward the earth without hitting the earth since the surface of the earth is falling away from the satellite at the same velocity as the object is falling.

Some are so bent on the "fact" that the New Jerusalem is supposed to be in the shape of the Holy of Holies, but there's no such requirement in the Scriptures anywhere. A better representation is the stone cut out of the mountain that grows until it becomes a great mountain:

Daniel 2:34-35, 45
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
...
45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.
KJV

This stone was CUT out of the mountain; it was quarried from the mountain giving it flat sides! It was a stone that simply grew until it became a great mountain. The shape of such a stone could certainly be a pyramid!

Nebuchadnezzar (Nebuchadrezzar) certainly knew about the pyramids of Egypt. He had also captured Pharoah-necho in close conjunction and prior to the capture of Judah (Jer. 44:30; Jer. 46:2; Ezek. 29:19; Ezek. 30:10).

And, Yeshua` (Jesus) was called "the head stone of the corner" or the "chief corner stone." (Psalm 118:22; Eph. 2:20; 1 Pet. 2:6). This is not talking about some stone in the corner of a building's foundation; it's talking about a CAPSTONE of a pyramid!

The obvious place for God's Throne in a cube would be at the center of the cube. The obvious place for God's Throne in a pyramid would be at the capstone!

Follow the river! The river of the water of life issues from God's Throne and travels down through the center of the street in the median of the street:

Revelation 22:1-2
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
KJV

In a cube, how does the water of the river get to the parts of the city that are higher than the center of the city? In a pyramid, the water flows naturally downward throughout the city and, since presumably the streets lead to the gates, out the gates of the city onto the New Earth, watering the New Earth with a great river system!

Like the Garden of Eden, where we read,

Genesis 2:10-14
10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
KJV

In God's FUTURE Paradise (Garden of Trees), the river is parted into TWELVE heads, each flowing out of one of the gates and watering the whole surface of the New Earth!

Don't make a decision, yet. Just think about it.

I thought about it.  I decided not to try to even read this long-winded post about the thoughts of a man forcing God's Word into his construct.

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2 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

I thought about it.  I decided not to try to even read this long-winded post about the thoughts of a man forcing God's Word into his construct.

Shalom, Marcus.

Well, there you go again.

I find it interesting that you choose to resort to an attack on the "long-windedness" of my posts rather than accept the logic or the proof behind the post. I find it very convenient.

Edited by Retrobyter
to add an insight
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the new Jerusalem is the Borg...

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By Other One:

Quote

the new Jerusalem is the Borg...

Or rather, the anti-Christian Hollywood crowd used the Most Holy Space, which was originally 15 cubits wide, by 15 cubits in length, and 15 cubits high, as the model for the cube ship for this all-powerful enemy which says 'you will be assimilated (or destroyed), as the perfect foil for God, whom they don't follow or love, as a way to stand in the face of God and ridicule His: Believe or perish Gospel of Christ Jesus.

Edited by Marcus O'Reillius
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On 3/16/2017 at 9:59 AM, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Marcus.

Well, there you go again.

I find it interesting that you choose to resort to an attack on the "long-windedness" of my posts rather than accept the logic or the proof behind the post. I find it very convenient.

I'm with Marcus on this one.

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Retrobyter wrote,

Sorry, but the Kingdom of God is NOT "already here

Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
 
Retrobyter proved wrong yet again with scripture.
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On 3/13/2017 at 11:44 PM, Marcus O'Reillius said:

Brevity is the soul of wit, and I think you lose the forest looking so close at the tree bark.

The Kingdom of God is already here, and is still to be in place.  It's kind of like God in my way of thinking: timeless.

And the Book of Enoch, from what I remember of it, did describe a topography to Heaven.  And I have always thought Heaven to be just as "real" as the earth God created, and again, despite all your long-winded arguments delving into the minutia of words to the contrary.

Sometimes it just comes down to a heart issue and figuring out that we don't, and perhaps can't know it all.

He just don't get it: the Kingdom of God was IN JESUS and He spread it around. Now it is in us - the CHURCH. It is a SPIRITUAL Kingdom for the present. When Jesus comes with POWER, He will then set up His physical kingdom.

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2 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

I'm with Marcus on this one.

Well, you would be.

48 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Retrobyter wrote,

Sorry, but the Kingdom of God is NOT "already here

Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
 
Retrobyter proved wrong yet again with scripture.

Shabbat shalom, iamlamad.

Haven't you been following along? The "within you" should actually be "AMONG YOU (PLURAL)!"

Everybody misuses and ABUSES this verse beyond measure! (Btw, do you know that "abuse" means to "abnormally use?") The Kingdom of God is NOT inside an individual - ANY individual. It was, that day, AMONG the Pharisees in the person of the Master, Yeshua` the Messiah, who was the embodiment of the Kingdom, as its future King. Yeshua` (Jesus) wouldn't be saying that the Kingdom of God was within each of the Pharisees, would He? And yet, THEY are the ones to whom He was speaking!

ALWAYS read the WHOLE context:

Luke 17:20-21
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said,
The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

KJV

Yeshua` was simply saying, "You don't have to go looking for the arrival of the Kingdom, nor will anyone say, 'Look, here it is!' or 'Look, there it is!' For, look! The Kingdom of God is right here among all of you (because I am right here among all of you)!"

 

HOWEVER, when Yeshua` left this earth, He took the offer of the Kingdom with Him. He rescinded His offer to that generation in favor of a future one.

 

Now, He left us to "occupy until He comes," and we can make subjects for His future Kingdom, but HE'S NOT BACK, YET! And, He shall NOT return until He is welcomed back! And, He shall THEN bring His Kingdom WITH HIM!

Matthew 6:9-10
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
KJV

That's not "Thy kingdom (is) come" but "(LET) Thy kingdom come!" People today think the Kingdom of God should immediately appear, but it's not yet time:

Matthew 21:33-46
33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.
KJV

Luke 19:11-15, 26-28
11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
12 He said therefore,
A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
...
26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

28 And when he had thus spoken, he went before, ascending up to Jerusalem.
KJV

Matthew 23:37-39
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed (Welcome) is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
KJV

Acts 1:6-12
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them,
It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven (toward the sky) as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven (into the sky)? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven (into the sky), shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven (into the sky).
12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
KJV

Matthew 25:31-34
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
...
KJV

The Kingdom comes AFTER Yeshua` has returned!

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6 hours ago, iamlamad said:

He just don't get it: the Kingdom of God was IN JESUS and He spread it around. Now it is in us - the CHURCH. It is a SPIRITUAL Kingdom for the present. When Jesus comes with POWER, He will then set up His physical kingdom.

And, for the record, I get it better than most. I just know that there's absolutely NO SUCH THING as a "spiritual Kingdom." It's really an oxymoron! As I've said reverently before, if our Master Yeshua` is currently reigning, then He would be the most INEFFECTUAL King on the face of the earth! How can you have a King who is supposed to rule the world who can't even deal with the weakest of enemies? That's how I KNOW that He is not currently reigning. 

ON THE OTHER HAND, He SHALL return, and He SHALL begin His LITERAL Kingdom, and at that time you will wonder how you could have EVER have thought that He was reigning before His return! It will be like night and day!

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On 3/18/2017 at 7:30 PM, Retrobyter said:

And, for the record, I get it better than most. I just know that there's absolutely NO SUCH THING as a "spiritual Kingdom." It's really an oxymoron! As I've said reverently before, if our Master Yeshua` is currently reigning, then He would be the most INEFFECTUAL King on the face of the earth! How can you have a King who is supposed to rule the world who can't even deal with the weakest of enemies? That's how I KNOW that He is not currently reigning. 

ON THE OTHER HAND, He SHALL return, and He SHALL begin His LITERAL Kingdom, and at that time you will wonder how you could have EVER have thought that He was reigning before His return! It will be like night and day!

Apparently you don't "get it" better than most. Are you submitted to our Lord? Most believers are, to some extent to another. If we submit, then we are His servants, and even more than servants, friends. Still, we submit to Him out of love because we recognize Him as our Lord and Savior. Does He not command those that are His? Does He not say to one, "stay" and to another "go?" This is ruler-ship. It is what a KING Does. A King commands. 

Would you say He has done a terrible job with His church? It started with 12, and now covers the world. It is indeed a kingdom, but it cannot be a physical kingdom yet, because the kingdoms of the world belong to Satan. So we are here, but not a part of this earthly kingdom. It is not our body that got born again, it is our spirit. God dwells in our spirit, not in our body.  Remember, Jesus told Pilate that His kingdom was not of this world. This proves He has a kingdom. It proves He is a King.

Therefore I disagree with you.

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