The Abomination of Desolation

[Retrobyter]

On 3/21/2017 at 1:50 PM, iamlamad said:

Apparently you don't "get it" better than most. Are you submitted to our Lord? Most believers are, to some extent or another. If we submit, then we are His servants, and even more than servants, friends. Still, we submit to Him out of love because we recognize Him as our Lord and Savior. Does He not command those that are His? Does He not say to one, "stay" and to another "go?" This is rulership. It is what a KING Does. A King commands. 

Would you say He has done a terrible job with His church? It started with 12, and now covers the world. It is indeed a kingdom, but it cannot be a physical kingdom yet, because the kingdoms of the world belong to Satan. So we are here, but not a part of this earthly kingdom. It is not our body that got born again, it is our spirit. God dwells in our spirit, not in our body.  Remember, Jesus told Pilate that His kingdom was not of this world. This proves He has a kingdom. It proves He is a King.

Therefore I disagree with you.

Shalom, iamlamad.

Did you know that the word "Islam" means "submission?" God doesn't need us to "submit"; we are already GREATLY outdone by His omnipotence. Don't you remember the Torah (which, btw, means "Instruction," not "Law")?

Deuteronomy 6:4-5
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one Lord:
5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
KJV

Deuteronomy 7:1-15
1 When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;
2 And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:
3 Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.
4 For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.
5 But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire.
6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
10 And repayeth them that hate him to their face, to destroy them: he will not be slack to him that hateth him, he will repay him to his face.
11 Thou shalt therefore keep the commandments, and the statutes, and the judgments, which I command thee this day, to do them.
12 Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the LORD thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which he sware unto thy fathers:
13 And he will love thee, and bless thee, and multiply thee: he will also bless the fruit of thy womb, and the fruit of thy land, thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep, in the land which he sware unto thy fathers to give thee.
14 Thou shalt be blessed above all people: there shall not be male or female barren among you, or among your cattle.
15 And the LORD will take away from thee all sickness, and will put none of the evil diseases of Egypt, which thou knowest, upon thee; but will lay them upon all them that hate thee.
KJV

Leviticus 19:1-18
1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Speak unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, and say unto them, Ye shall be holy: for I the LORD your God am holy.
3 Ye shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and keep my sabbaths: I am the LORD your God.
4 Turn ye not unto idols, nor make to yourselves molten gods: I am the LORD your God.
5 And if ye offer a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the LORD, ye shall offer it at your own will.
6 It shall be eaten the same day ye offer it, and on the morrow: and if ought remain until the third day, it shall be burnt in the fire.
7 And if it be eaten at all on the third day, it is abominable; it shall not be accepted.
8 Therefore every one that eateth it shall bear his iniquity, because he hath profaned the hallowed thing of the LORD: and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
9 And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleanings of thy harvest.
10 And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather every grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger: I am the LORD your God.
11 Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.
12 And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.
13 Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
14 Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD.
15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.
17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
KJV

Key word? LOVE! "God is LOVE!"

However, most people confuse real "love" with the emotion called "love." As Dr. James Dobson has said,

"Children spell 'love' 'T-I-M-E.'"

Real love is the spelled the same. It's INVOLVEMENT! When someone is INVOLVED in another's life, in another's well-being, THAT is true love. When someone is even willing to give up his or her own life to preserve the life of another, that's REAL love!

People have accused the God of the Old Testament of being angry, severe, and a God of wrath. But, that's NOT who the God of the Old Testament was! He was (and is) a God of PROTECTION! He was a God who gave His all to keep the grandbabies of Avraham, Yitschaq, and Ya`aqov away from harm! (We always say "children of Israel," but I don't think we always realize the REALITY of that phrase!)

"Has He done a terrible job with His church?" No, but He's NOT HERE, YET! It's WE who have done a terrible job with His church!

Chew on that for a while. There's more to say to your little misunderstandings, but I haven't the time tonight.

[iamlamad]

11 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, iamlamad.

Did you know that the word "Islam" means "submission?" God doesn't need us to "submit"; we are already GREATLY outdone by His omnipotence. Don't you remember the Torah (which, btw, means "Instruction," not "Law")?

...

 

Key word? LOVE! "God is LOVE!"

However, most people confuse real "love" with the emotion called "love." As Dr. James Dobson has said,

"Children spell 'love' 'T-I-M-E.'"

Real love is the spelled the same. It's INVOLVEMENT! When someone is INVOLVED in another's life, in another's well-being, THAT is true love. When someone is even willing to give up his or her own life to preserve the life of another, that's REAL love!

People have accused the God of the Old Testament of being angry, severe, and a God of wrath. But, that's NOT who the God of the Old Testament was! He was (and is) a God of PROTECTION! He was a God who gave His all to keep the grandbabies of Avraham, Yitschaq, and Ya`aqov away from harm! (We always say "children of Israel," but I don't think we always realize the REALITY of that phrase!)

"Has He done a terrible job with His church?" No, but He's NOT HERE, YET! It's WE who have done a terrible job with His church!

Chew on that for a while. There's more to say to your little misunderstandings, but I haven't the time tonight.

James 4:⁶ But He gives more grace. Therefore He says:

“God resists the proud,  But gives grace to the humble.”

⁷ Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.

 

Titus 1:1   Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness, in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began, but has in due time manifested His word through preaching, which was committed to me according to the commandment of God our Savior; ...

This is the kind of submission I speak of: the kind the bible talks of. OF COURSE it comes from love.

"No, but He's NOT HERE, YET! It's WE who have done a terrible job with His church!"

Sorry, but HE is the HEAD of the church. He has done great things with the church. As I said, from 12 to around the world. of course we as members of His body could have done better. Always remember, He is the HEAD. Members of His body follow the Head.  They love Him and do His bidding.

Edited March 23, 2017 by iamlamad

[simplejeff]

On 2/26/2017 at 11:59 PM, Retrobyter said:

 And, I don't know too many who would even CLAIM that "demonic spirits are dragging human spirits to hell!" That's something you see in TV shows and movies that has absolutely NO Scriptural backing. God's messengers will be hauling the resurrected, unjustified people to the Great White Throne Judgment to stand trial before God. Once their sentence is pronounced, the messengers will throw these resurrected, unjustified people into the Lake of Fire. HaSatan, the devil or the slanderer, and all his messengers will have their part in the Lake of Fire, as well.  They don't have any authority in "hell"; they are just going to suffer like anyone else thrown into the Lake of Fire.

The following quote from an unknown website, untested, unvetter, unverified,  is UNIQUE to say the least.

A communist who apparently still doesn't believe in heaven,  but now believes in hell, as he states in his own words.

 

" ""As a communist I don’t believe in heaven or the Bible but as a scientist I now believe in hell," said Dr. Azzacove. "Needless to say we were shocked to make such a discovery. But we know what we saw and we know what we heard. And we are absolutely convinced that we drilled through the gates of hell!"

Dr. Azzacove continued, ". . .the drill suddenly began to rotate wildly, indicating that we had reached a large empty pocket or cavern. Temperature sensors showed a dramatic increase in heat to 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit."

"We lowered a microphone, designed to detect the sounds of plate movements down the shaft. But instead of plate movements we heard a human voice screaming in pain! At first we thought the sound was coming from our own equipment."

"But when we made adjustments our worst suspicions were confirmed. The screams weren’t those of a single human, they were the screams of millions of humans!" "

[Retrobyter]

8 hours ago, iamlamad said:

James 4:⁶ But He gives more grace. Therefore He says:

“God resists the proud,  But gives grace to the humble.”

⁷ Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.

 

Titus 1:1   Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness, in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began, but has in due time manifested His word through preaching, which was committed to me according to the commandment of God our Savior; ...

This is the kind of submission I speak of: the kind the bible talks of. OF COURSE it comes from love.

"No, but He's NOT HERE, YET! It's WE who have done a terrible job with His church!"

Sorry, but HE is the HEAD of the church. He has done great things with the church. As I said, from 12 to around the world. of course we as members of His body could have done better. Always remember, He is the HEAD. Members of His body follow the Head.  They love Him and do His bidding.

Shalom, iamlamad.

Yes, He is the Head of every church - every ekkleesia kuriakon - every congregation of the Master. (You should know that I reject the notion of a "universal Church." It won't be "universal" until we are ALL together literally in the Resurrection. The whole point of a congregation being a "body" with each of its persons "members of that body" was to show how they supported one another. It's hard for a "finger" in Albuquerque to scratch a "nose" in Timbuktu!) As such, He IS my Master, and I am His bondservant, a servant in bonds, His bound-slave.

However, being a "master" is significantly different than being a "king." 
A "king" is more than just a "person who commands." 
A "king" in Israel is also a "judge." 
In fact, he is "the supreme court judge," as was David and Shlomoh (Solomon)!

Yeshua` (Jesus), the One greater than Shlomoh, will be the King reigning over His tribe Y'hudah (Judah). This takes His physical presence, which won't be until they can welcome Him back. (Matt. 23:37-39; Psalm 118:22-26)
Then, He will be the King reigning over His nation Yisra'el (Israel). This will take a few more (3.5) years as (1) His more distant relatives, the members of the other tribes of Israel, are regathered into the Land, and as (2) they learn they can both trust Him and accept Him as their King.
Then, as He conquers His enemies and subdues them, He will be a King over kings - the King of kings - a World Emperor. Make no mistake, this will take time to accomplish. In fact, He takes a MILLENNIUM to accomplish this goal! (1 Cor. 15:20-28; Rev. 20:1-7)

But, the prophecy was (and still is)...

Luke 1:30-33
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS (Greek: Ieesous [pronounced "yay-SOOS"] = Hebrew: Yeeshuwa` [pronounced "yay-SHOO-`ah"]; Greek doesn't have a letter close to a Hebrew `ayin and used a sigma to approximate a Hebrew shin; it also used the ending sigma for a proper name; the 1611 English pronounced "JESUS" as "yay-SOOS").
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob [Israel] for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
KJV

This has not yet begun and will not begin until He returns.

The Scriptures do NOT call any "church," or even a collection of all the "churches," a "Kingdom!"

On 3/21/2017 at 1:50 PM, iamlamad said:

Apparently you don't "get it" better than most. Are you submitted to our Lord? Most believers are, to some extent to another. If we submit, then we are His servants, and even more than servants, friends. Still, we submit to Him out of love because we recognize Him as our Lord and Savior. Does He not command those that are His? Does He not say to one, "stay" and to another "go?" This is ruler-ship. It is what a KING Does. A King commands. 

Would you say He has done a terrible job with His church? It started with 12, and now covers the world. It is indeed a kingdom, but it cannot be a physical kingdom yet, because the kingdoms of the world belong to Satan. So we are here, but not a part of this earthly kingdom. It is not our body that got born again, it is our spirit. God dwells in our spirit, not in our body.  Remember, Jesus told Pilate that His kingdom was not of this world. This proves He has a kingdom. It proves He is a King.

Therefore I disagree with you.

Regarding God dwelling in our spirit, it's not about "spirit" or "body"; He dwells in US, and WE are living bodies, living air-breathers, living souls! God does not dwell in our "breath!"

When Yeshua` told Pontius Pilate that "His kingdom was not of this world," He did NOT say that it was not of this EARTH! The Greek word is "kosmos" which means a "world-SYSTEM!" It'll take a pardigm shift in your thinking, but what He was saying was that His Kingdom will not be LIKE the other kingdoms of this world. They have hierarchies of governorship, exercising lordship over others. In Yeshua`s Kingdom, it'll be the SERVANT who is honored.

Matthew 20:25-28
25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister (a waiter);
27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
KJV

You really need to learn to read the whole context of a passage:

John 18:33-40
33 Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again, and called Jesus, and said unto him, Art thou the King of the Jews (the children of Y'hudah or Judah)?
34 Jesus answered him, Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me?
35 Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?
36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
38 Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.
39 But ye have a custom, that I should release unto you one at the passover: will ye therefore that I release unto you the King of the Jews?
40 Then cried they all again, saying, Not this man, but Barabbas. Now Barabbas was a robber.
KJV

It was not yet even about Yeshua` being the King of Israel. So far in the narrative, it was about Yeshua` being the King of the Jews or the King of Y'hudah, His OWN tribe, just one of the twelve!

Remember Yeshua`s parable:

Luke 19:11-28
11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.
25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)
26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
28 And when he had thus spoken, he went before, ascending up to Jerusalem.
KJV

The ekkleesiai kuriakoon ("churches") are absolutely NOT His Kingdom, although they are full of subjects FOR His Kingdom when it arrives!

Now, regarding the "churches," whether they've done such a great job, despite the understanding some have of "the great exchange," listed for us in 2 Corinthians 5:21, many called "Christians" don't have this knowledge. They still believe that "if their good deeds outweigh their bad deeds, then they will make it to Heaven."

It's like they've missed the following passages in Scripture:

Luke 18:9-14
9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican (a tax collector for Rome; a self-serving traitor and mercenary).
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
KJV

2 Corinthians 5:17-21
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ (God, who exchanged places with us by Jesus Christ), and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation (the service of exchanging places);
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself (God was in Christ, exchanging places with the world), not imputing their trespasses unto them (not counting the overstepping of their bounds against them); and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation (the message about exchanging places).
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God (exchange places with God).
21 For he (God) hath made him (Christ) to be sin for us, who (Christ) knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him (Christ).
KJV

So, there is a dichotomy: There are some who think they can make it on their own merits, and there are others who know that "even their righteous deeds are as filthy rags" and that they need God's intervention.

Therefore, tell me again how well the "churches" are doing? Are you so sure that all who name the name of Christ and call themselves "Christian" are truly born again? I'm reminded of a sermon I heard as a boy by an evangelist, "Uncle" Paul Lambert, entitled "What's in the pot at the end of the beautiful ecumenical rainbow?" His conclusion was, "There's DEATH in the pot!"

And, on a practical note, we have hardly BEGUN to herald the good news about the Kingdom! By twisting things around, thinking that "the Church is the Kingdom," we've concluded that the "gospel" or the "good news" belongs to the "Church, God's Kingdom," and therefore we ARE preaching the good news belonging to the Kingdom when we preach the "death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ." But, this is an error!

We are supposed to be preaching the good news (or "gospel") ABOUT God's Kingdom! And, what is that good news? Well, first, it's the good news that both Yochanan the Immerser (John the Baptist) and Yeshua` the Messiah (Jesus the Christ) both heralded:

Mark 1:14-15
14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching (Greek: keerussoon = heralding) the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
KJV

He didn't need to explain what that was; all the Jews knew it because they read the Messianic passages of Scripture at least once each year:

Isaiah 52:7-10
7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation (deliverance; rescue); that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!
8 Thy watchmen shall lift up the voice; with the voice together shall they sing: for they shall see eye to eye, when the LORD shall bring again Zion.
9 Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem: for the LORD hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem.
10 The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation (deliverance; rescue) of our God.
KJV

And, we need to herald this good news, because Yeshua` said, ...

Matthew 24:14
14 And this gospel of the kingdom (good news about the Kingdom) shall be preached (heralded) in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
KJV

I don't think we done a very good job of doing that. So, how can Yeshua` return?