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1Thes.4 = Day of the Lord


WailingWall

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9 hours ago, WailingWall said:

I see you dont back up what you say with scripture so i guess ill say opinion noted

Sorry, I meant to quote you, but ended up quoting Keras. : -((( 

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The Day of the Lord is His 2nd and only return,which starts at the 7th and last trump,then after that day,we shall have the Day of God

Revelation 20:9 "And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

This beloved city is Jerusalem where Jesus Christ and His temple will be at the close of the Millennium age. It is here where the glory of God is, and God's fire from heaven will come down to devour Satan and all his followers.

This is the "great day of God" when the full Godhead comes to dwell on earth with His saints forever. This is different from the "day of the Lord", which was 1,000 years earlier, that took place at the seventh trump when Jesus Christ came and set up His kingdom for the Millennium.

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14 hours ago, iamlamad said:

 Then John shows us the raptured church in heaven in Rev. 7.

Yes, of course a rapture to heaven is indicated. Preconceived glasses prevent many from seeing it. After all, where did Christ go to prepare homes for us?

Na.

1COR.15[50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and WE SHALL BE CHANGED.[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP IN VICTORY.

At the 1Cor15 event “death is swallowed up in victory”. It happens only once.

ISAIAH 25  [8] HE WILL SWALLOW UP DEATH IN VICTORY; and the Lord GOD will WIPE AWAY TEARS from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.[9] And it shall be said IN THAT DAY, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.

In above scripture "death is swallowed up in victory". Both scriptures, speaking of same event. But in Isaiah 25 you also find that at that time “God shall wipe away all tears”. This to will happen but once.

REVELATION 21 [1] And I saw a NEW HEAVEN AND A NEW EARTH: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.[2]And I John saw the holy city, NEW JERUSALEM, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.[3]And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, BEHOLD, THE TABERNACLE OF GOD IS WITH MEN, AND HE WILL DWELL WITH THEM, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.[4]And God shall WIPE AWAY ALL TEARS from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.[5]And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

No more tears. When? When death is swallowed up in victory {1Cor.15v54} and at the same time Jesus dwells  with man in the new Jerusalem {the 1000yr period of rest}

REVELATION 7 [13]And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?[14]And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.[15]Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: AND HE THAT SITTETH ON THE THRONE SHALL DWELL AMONG THEM.[16]They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.[17]For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall WIPE AWAY ALL TEARS from their eyes.

No more tears. No one will be raptured off to heaven. When we are changed in the twinkling of an eye, we meet the Lord in the air and its off to the kingdom rest with Jesus. So now we know where we are going at the so called “rapture” event.

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JOHN 14 [1] Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. [2] In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. [3] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

JOHN 7  [33] Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and then I go unto him that sent me.[34] Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and WHERE I AM, THITHER YE CANNOT COME.

We are not allowed to go to heaven (that what Jesus said). Then Jesus said He would come again and that where He is we will be there also

REVELATION 21 [1] And I saw a NEW HEAVEN AND A NEW EARTH: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.[2]And I John saw the holy city, NEW JERUSALEM, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.[3]And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, BEHOLD, THE TABERNACLE OF GOD IS WITH MEN, AND HE WILL DWELL WITH THEM, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.[4]And God shall WIPE AWAY ALL TEARS from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.[5]And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

The many mansions? Its the new Jerusalem that is brought to this earth. NO MORE TEARS!

ZECH. 8 [1] Again the word of the Lord of hosts came to me, saying, [2] Thus saith the Lord of hosts; I was jealous for Zion with great jealousy, and I was jealous for her with great fury. [3] THUS SAITH THE LORD; I AM RETURNED UNTO ZION, AND WILL DWELL IN THE MIDST OF JERUSALEM: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the Lord of hosts the holy mountain. [4] Thus saith the Lord of hosts; There shall yet old men and old women dwell in the streets of Jerusalem, and every man with his staff in his hand for very age. [5] And the streets of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in the streets thereof. [6] Thus saith the Lord of hosts; If it be marvellous in the eyes of the remnant of this people in these days, should it also be marvellous in mine eyes? saith the Lord of hosts. [7] Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Behold, I WILL SAVE MY PEOPLE FROM THE EAST COUNTRY, AND FROM THE WEST COUNTRY; [8] AND I WILL BRING THEM, AND THEY SHALL DWELL IN THE MIDST OF JERUSALEM: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness.

The new Jerusalem {many mansions} will be in Zion, in the midst of old Jerusalem. Its there He will “bring” us in the twinkling of an eye. Not to heaven as the Rapturist claim

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Amos 5:17-22 is not and cannot be describing the glorious Day of Jesus' Return. Many other verses tell of the Day of the Lord's wrath, that is stated to happen at the Sixth Seal. Rev 6:12-17 This must be years before the Return. Rev 19:11-21

The terrible Day of wrath, by fire, earthquakes, storms and tsunamis, will be the world changer that commences the last of the last days. We should all be aware of its coming and be spiritually and physically prepared to stand firm in our faith during that Day.

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When the Son of Man comes:

Luke 17:29-30 On the day that Sodom was destroyed, fire and sulphur rained upon them and killed them all. It will be like that again when the Son of Man is revealed.    Amos 4:11-12
Matthew 24:37-42 As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be when the Son of Man comes. In the days before the flood, they ate, drank and married until the day that Noah entered the ark, they knew nothing until the flood came and swept them all away. That is how it will be again when the Son of Man comes.
Genesis 9:11-14 My covenant to never again destroy all living creatures by a flood is confirmed by the sign of the rainbow.
Deuteronomy 32:22 & 34-35 I have sealed in My storehouse, ready for the Day of punishment and vengeance, a fire that will be set ablaze by My anger. It will envelope the world in flames, burning to the depths of the earth. Jeremiah 50:25
Psalm 110:1-6....I shall make Your enemies Your footstool....In  glorious majesty, You judge the nations, shattering the wicked throughout the world.

Isaiah 24:18-23 On that Day, the Lord will punish in heaven the host of heaven and on earth the leaders of the nations are caught and punished. The sun and moon will be darkened, for the glory of the Lord will be in Jerusalem and is revealed to the elders of His people.
2 Peter 3:5-7 & 10....the world before Noah was destroyed by a great flood. Now, by God’s Word the present heavens and earth are reserved for burning, kept for the Day of judgement when the godless will be destroyed. That Day will come unexpectedly, the sky will dissipate with a great noise and the earth will be enveloped in flames. All its inhabitants will be tested.
Isaiah 66:1-6 My people are oppressed and afflicted and evil people displease Me, they say: Let the Lord come, we do not believe in Him. Therefore, the noise you can hear is the Lord dealing retribution to His foes.  Romans 1:18, Hebrews 10:27
Matthew 24:40-44 There will be two men in a field, one will be taken the other left, two women at the mill, one will be taken, the other left. Keep awake, therefore for the Lord will come unexpectedly.
Isaiah 63:1-6 The Lord comes from the godless nations, in His power and majesty, He tramples them in His fury, their blood spills out and splashes His garments. At the Return He comes in blood splashed garments.
2 Thessalonians 1:6-10...the Day the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in flaming fire….He will reveal His glory among all believers. Revelation 14:1

What we can understand from the above Bible passages, is that the Day of the Lord, when the Son of Man takes action, is not Jesus’ Return as the Word of God, for the Millennium reign. At the Return: ‘all will see Him’, not as in this Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, where He is not seen: Psalms 18:11, Luke 3:17, but ‘His glory will be revealed to all believers’.   2 Thess. 1:10
God promised to ‘never again flood the earth’, but He has ‘stored up a fire that will envelope the earth in flames’, a worldwide judgement/punishment, so vividly described by all the prophets.
This terrible fire and devastation will come upon the world unexpectedly, ‘While they are saying: All is peaceful, all secure, then destruction is upon them’. 1 Thess. 5:3 Huge numbers will be killed by the fire, earthquakes and the resulting famines afterward. Jeremiah 9:22, Isaiah 34:1-8, Ezekiel 30:2-5
The Lord is not seen on that Day, but His people are saved and protected, [not raptured] Isaiah 30:26, Isaiah 43:2, Zechariah 9:5-16
Then, as in Ezekiel 20:33-38...by My outpoured wrath, [The Day of wrath] I shall bring you out of the nations and gather you back to Israel. The Lord is: ‘Waiting to show you His favour’, and to bless His true believing Christian people as they fulfill the promises to the Patriarchs and their destiny: ‘to be a light to the nations’. Isaiah 42:6, Isaiah 62:1-5

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On 2/8/2017 at 8:39 AM, WailingWall said:

1 THES. 4 [13] But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye SORROW NOT, EVEN AS OTHERS which have no hope. [14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. [15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. [16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with THE VOICE of the archangel, and with THE TRUMP OF GOD: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: [17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them IN THE CLOUDS, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. [18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

 1THES.4 – voice – clouds – trump of God – sorrow not as others -

 ZEPH. 1 –  voice – clouds – the trumpet – man shall cry bitterly -

 ZEPH. 1 [14] The great DAY OF THE LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even THE VOICE of the day of the Lord: the mighty MAN SHALL CRY THERE BITTERLY. [15] That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a DAY OF CLOUDS and thick darkness, [16] A DAY OF THE TRUMPET and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers. [17] And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the Lord: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.

No doubt about it. Both scriptures are speaking of the same event. Both scriptures speak of what happens on the Day of the Lord.

The Day of the Lord takes place AFTER the tribulation period

In 1 Thes. 4 & 5, it is NOT AT ALL Paul's (or the Holy Spirit's) intent that the rapture would be IN the day of the Lord, but rather that the rapture would be the TRIGGER for the Day. We could back up a second further and say that Christ's COMING will be the trigger for the resurrection/rapture event.

When the dead in Christ rise, this event (the bringing together of the atoms or Quarks that once made up those bodies) will cause a world wide earthquake, and this earthquake (the very same one as seen at the 6th seal) will be the start of the DAy of the Lord, and the start of His wrath, and Paul's "sudden destruction.

AT this SUDDENLY  - the dead in Christ rising - two groups of people will get two different results: those living in the light of the gospel -  IN Christ - will get raptured and so not be in this "sudden destruction" earthquake. But those living in the darkness will have no escape, and will suffer and live through (or die in) this great earthquake.  Make no mistake, this eathquake will be the beginning of the DAY.

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On 2/15/2017 at 0:06 PM, WailingWall said:

JOHN 14 [1] Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. [2] In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. [3] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

JOHN 7  [33] Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and then I go unto him that sent me.[34] Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and WHERE I AM, THITHER YE CANNOT COME.

We are not allowed to go to heaven (that what Jesus said). Then Jesus said He would come again and that where He is we will be there also

REVELATION 21 [1] And I saw a NEW HEAVEN AND A NEW EARTH: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.[2]And I John saw the holy city, NEW JERUSALEM, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.[3]And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, BEHOLD, THE TABERNACLE OF GOD IS WITH MEN, AND HE WILL DWELL WITH THEM, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.[4]And God shall WIPE AWAY ALL TEARS from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.[5]And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

The many mansions? Its the new Jerusalem that is brought to this earth. NO MORE TEARS!

ZECH. 8 [1] Again the word of the Lord of hosts came to me, saying, [2] Thus saith the Lord of hosts; I was jealous for Zion with great jealousy, and I was jealous for her with great fury. [3] THUS SAITH THE LORD; I AM RETURNED UNTO ZION, AND WILL DWELL IN THE MIDST OF JERUSALEM: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the Lord of hosts the holy mountain. [4] Thus saith the Lord of hosts; There shall yet old men and old women dwell in the streets of Jerusalem, and every man with his staff in his hand for very age. [5] And the streets of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in the streets thereof. [6] Thus saith the Lord of hosts; If it be marvellous in the eyes of the remnant of this people in these days, should it also be marvellous in mine eyes? saith the Lord of hosts. [7] Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Behold, I WILL SAVE MY PEOPLE FROM THE EAST COUNTRY, AND FROM THE WEST COUNTRY; [8] AND I WILL BRING THEM, AND THEY SHALL DWELL IN THE MIDST OF JERUSALEM: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness.

The new Jerusalem {many mansions} will be in Zion, in the midst of old Jerusalem. Its there He will “bring” us in the twinkling of an eye. Not to heaven as the Rapturist claim

Sounds good in theory, but those that know the TIMING of Revelation can immediately see that your timing is OFF. The Bride of Christ will be caught up into the air over 7 years before Christ comes for the battle of Armageddon. Then their will be another 1000 years, then the great white throne judgment, and finally, after that  - and we don't know how long after that - the new earth will be created. And finally the New Jerusalem will descend.

 

Will the Bride of Christ be sitting on clouds all this time? Of course not! They will be escorted into heaven to await the wrath of God poured out on earth. They they will return WITH HIM to the Battle of Armageddon as part of the armies of God. Note, Revelation CLEARLY shows the marriage and supper will take place IN HEAVEN before Jesus descends to the Battle of Armageddon.

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On 2/14/2017 at 9:00 AM, inchrist said:

This has already been dealt with...the grammar of text refutes you.

 Greek is present tense, coming out of the GT. This is a continual action, a repeated action not a single event.

Unless you think we will be cherry picked to heaven over an extended period of time?

Then you should have no problems showing me these mansions in Rev 7

I will get to see my mansion at the time of the rapture. You may not get to see yours until you lose your head. And then how will you see? (I am jesting on seeing without a head.)

As for Greek grammer and present tense, the idea given is that it will be "great tribulation" (but NOT the days of GT that Jesus spoke of) around the world at the time of the rapture. What can we make of this? I doubt a day goes by today that someone is not murdered because they love Jesus. It IS great tribulation for those murdered: how could it be greater? Can they be killed twice?

The idea of a repeated action, one after another, is not forced on the Greek: it can be a single action.

Edited by iamlamad
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On 2/14/2017 at 0:39 AM, n2thelight said:

The Day of the Lord is His 2nd and only return,which starts at the 7th and last trump,then after that day,we shall have the Day of God

Revelation 20:9 "And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

This beloved city is Jerusalem where Jesus Christ and His temple will be at the close of the Millennium age. It is here where the glory of God is, and God's fire from heaven will come down to devour Satan and all his followers.

This is the "great day of God" when the full Godhead comes to dwell on earth with His saints forever. This is different from the "day of the Lord", which was 1,000 years earlier, that took place at the seventh trump when Jesus Christ came and set up His kingdom for the Millennium.

"The Day of the Lord is His 2nd and only return,which starts at the 7th and last trump,then after that day,we shall have the Day of God"

YOu have escaped reality in three directions! There IS NO COMING at the 7th trumpet: that is myth. He will come the second time FOR His saints, and a third time WITH His saints. And the Day of the Lord begins right where John wrote it: at the 6th seal.

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