1Thes.4 = Day of the Lord

[Limey_Bob]

On 2/8/2017 at 2:39 PM, WailingWall said:

1 THES. 4 [13] But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye SORROW NOT, EVEN AS OTHERS which have no hope. [14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. [15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. [16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with THE VOICE of the archangel, and with THE TRUMP OF GOD: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: [17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them IN THE CLOUDS, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. [18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

 1THES.4 – voice – clouds – trump of God – sorrow not as others -

 ZEPH. 1 –  voice – clouds – the trumpet – man shall cry bitterly -

 ZEPH. 1 [14] The great DAY OF THE LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even THE VOICE of the day of the Lord: the mighty MAN SHALL CRY THERE BITTERLY. [15] That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a DAY OF CLOUDS and thick darkness, [16] A DAY OF THE TRUMPET and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers. [17] And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the Lord: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.

No doubt about it. Both scriptures are speaking of the same event. Both scriptures speak of what happens on the Day of the Lord.

The Day of the Lord takes place AFTER the tribulation period

I've been thinking about this post for several days, and it has been a tremendous encouragement to me. I agree that the day of the Lord takes place after the tribulation, 1st Thessalonians 4:16 contrasted with 5:2, as I understand it proves that what people often call "the rapture" takes place on the day of the Lord i.e. second coming, thank you for this.

[Keras]

On ‎4‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 0:07 AM, Limey_Bob said:

I've been thinking about this post for several days, and it has been a tremendous encouragement to me. I agree that the day of the Lord takes place after the tribulation, 1st Thessalonians 4:16 contrasted with 5:2, as I understand it proves that what people often call "the rapture" takes place on the day of the Lord i.e. second coming, thank you for this.

I have to say I disagree with this view.

It contradicts many prophesies that show that the next prophesied event that we can expect will be the terrible Day of the Lord's wrath. The Sixth Seal, is the main example; as one of the seals on the scroll handed to Jesus; Rev 4:5, which must be removed BEFORE the scroll can be opened.  Then, the Seventh Seal is a time gap and only after that, can the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls of the Great Trib happen.   You are shuffling Revelation to shift it, not advisable, as John says; Rev 22:18-19

Why would Jesus devastate the earth at His Return?  All that Rev 10:11-21 say is He destroys Satan's army and chains him up. There will be a 'rapture' then, but not to heaven; just to where Jesus is, on earth.

[Keras]

Here are bible passages that confirm the fact that the Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath is some time before His glorious Return. His people, righteous Christian Israelites, from every race, nation and language will then go to the Land and live there in prosperity and peace. Eze 39:25-29

Isaiah 66:15 ...the Lord coming in fire    [not on a cloud, in His glory, at this time],

...bringing retribution in anger  [no mention of this at His Return in glory. Rev 19:21]

Isa 66:16-17 The Lord will judge with fire and sword and test all mankind. All those unclean and wicked will die. [not just the army that will attack Jerusalem]

Isa 66:18 I will gather peoples of every tongue- they [only His people] will see My glory.

Isa 66:19 I shall put a sign on those survivors and will send them to declare My glory to all the nations. [before the Return - these are the 144,000, who will proclaim the coming Kingdom. Rev 7 & 14, Isaiah 66:19]

Isa 66:20-21 From all the world, your fellow peoples will come, on every conveyance, like offerings to the Lord. Some will become My priests.   His people will rebuild the Temple and serve in it. Zechariah 6:15, 1 Peter 2:9

Isa 66:22 As the New heavens and New earth that I am making will endure, so will your posterity endure. [to happen later, Rev 21:1-4]

Isa 66:23-24 All mankind will come to bow before Me. They will see what happened to those who rebelled against Me.                                              This will happen during the Millennium. 

Jeremiah 30:3 ...both Israel and Judah will return to the Land.          Includes the grafted in gentiles. But, first the Land is cleared and cleansed.

Jer. 30:4-7 The Lord says to Israel and Judah, "How awful is that Day, a cry of terror, anguish for Jacob. [ His Christian people, judged and purged. Psalm 30:4-5, Ezekiel 21:7]

Jer. 30:8-9 On that Day, I will save My people.                                                                                                                                                                       The terrible Day of the Lord/the sixth seal, coronal mass ejection from the sun. Isaiah 30:26, Isaiah 32:15-20

Jer. 30:10-11 Do not despair, Israel, I will bring you back safely from afar.         Isaiah 51:3

Deuteronomy 32:41-43 I will sharpen My flashing sword and take vengeance on those who hate Me. Rejoice, you heavens, He will avenge His people and cleanse their Land.                                                                                   Ref: REB some verses abridged.

 

There is a wonderful logic in the promise that those people who love the Lord, His righteous Christians, will live in the Promised Land and all those prophecies to His people will be fulfilled. They will settle there and be "a light to all nations" as God originally intended.                                        Isaiah 60:3 over you, His glory will appear and nations will travel to your light

Very soon, there will be worldwide, dramatic events, especially in the Middle East, which will completely change the area. His Christian people, the Israel of God, Galatians 6:16, will go to the holy Land.

Ezekiel 20:34-38 ....even as I did in the wilderness of Egypt....All the true Christian Israel of God, are gathered, judged, cleansed and settled into the Land.

When the Lord Jesus returns, He will save those people from the attacking armies of the Anti Christ. The sudden and complete destruction of those armies as described in Revelation 19:17-21, does not match the Sixth Seal- Rev 6:12-17, or the many other verses describing the Lord's Day of wrath and vengeance. Amos 5:18-20, Joel 2:11

Then those Gentile people who have refused the "mark of the beast" will join them and live in the Land, [Isaiah 56:8] under King Jesus, for 1000 years.

[Spock]

On 2/9/2017 at 4:32 PM, ENOCH2010 said:

I think the day of the Lord is the 1000 year reign

I think the Day of the Lord begins when Gods wrath is unleashed.  When does it begin? According to Rev 6, it appears it begins right after the seals. I believe this is why there is silence in Heaven for an hour. The whole world is taking a deep breath because now our patient God is about to speak and it won't be pretty. 

Oh, and for those who want more, the rapture precedes Gods wrath. Rapture in Rev 7 and Wrath begins pretty much with trumpet one. 

[Daniel 11:36]

Correct

Those who belong to the Lord will be immortalized just before

Both the 144000 preachers of Israel and those of His own are noted in Revelation 7:1-8 and 7:9-17 respectively

The 144,000 are presented first .... then the immortals of the Lords followers are seen in heaven with the Lord

The 144000 of Israel will be mortals and protected during their mission in the the tribulation period .... here they are again [Revelation 14:1-7]

 

 

[Retrobyter]

On 2/9/2017 at 4:32 PM, ENOCH2010 said:

I think the day of the Lord is the 1000 year reign

Shalom, ENOCH2010.

I agree. The DAY of the Lord is that 1000 years that Peter talks about. (2 Pet. 3:8.) Can there be anything but one day in the presence of the King who shines brighter than the sun and who never sleeps?

Revelation 1:16
16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
KJV

Malachi 4:1-2
1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
KJV

This is NOT figurative language; Yeshua` will glow brightly just as He did in the vision of His transfiguration, and 2 Peter 3 is the key: The thousand years begins with His coming and ENDS with "the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men," a.k.a. the Great White Throne Judgment.

2 Peter 3:7
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition (sentencing) of ungodly men.
KJV

Revelation 20:7-15
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
KJV

[Keras]

There is a lot of confusion over what a Day is.  I agree that one heavenly day to the Lord is the same as 1000 earth years. Psalms 90:4, 2 Peter 3:8

But the forthcoming terrible Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath will be just one earthly day. Isaiah 47:9, Zechariah 3:9, Psalms 50:1-3 +  Otherwise nothing would survive His fiery wrath. As it is, practically the entire Middle East will be devastated, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Jeremiah 1-:18, Amos 1 & 2 and the rest of the world will never be the same again. It will set the scene for all that is prophesied to happen before Jesus Returns.

8 hours ago, Spock said:

Oh, and for those who want more, the rapture precedes Gods wrath. Rapture in Rev 7 and Wrath begins pretty much with trumpet one. 

Nowhere in scripture does it say God will rapture His people to heaven.  You are making a false assumption and adding to Revelation with your belief. Not a good idea according to Revelation 22:18-19

[Daniel 11:36]

[1 Corinthians 15:20-23; 51-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Thessalonians 5:1-9; Matthew 25:1-13; Revelation 3:10; 7:9-17; 11:1, 13:6; 17:14; 18:4; 19:1-9; 19:14; 20:4 [those on thrones] 

[Keras]

12 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

[1 Corinthians 15:20-23; 51-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Thessalonians 5:1-9; Matthew 25:1-13; Revelation 3:10; 7:9-17; 11:1, 13:6; 17:14; 18:4; 19:1-9; 19:14; 20:4 [those on thrones] 

Is this meant to be proof of a rapture to heaven? If so where exactly do those verses say that God will take His people to heaven?

Inferences and assumptions are just not good enough, as the Bible does tell us very plainly all about important things, like salvation and how we should live.  Also, all the prophets say what God actually does plan for those who believe in Him and it does not include a removal from the earth, Eventually,  God will come down to earth and dwell with mankind. Rev 21:4

[Daniel 11:36]

Some people just do not take the scriptures at full value .... for some reason

.... what are you doing?