Daniel's 9:26 & 27: what is the Author's intent?

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, inchrist said:

God did more than have Christ crucified. He also had the covenant broken

Zech 11:10

took my staff Favor and cut it in pieces, to break my covenant 

You understand how that completely discredits you theory?

Of cause because John and Daniel were americans

Our problem is so simple: you read one sentence in Daniel and come up with a theory that does not fit the scriptures. They you bring in non sequiturs and think they are helping your argument.

Dan. 9:26a

New International Version
After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be put to death...

English Standard Version
And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off...

New American Standard Bible
"Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off...

International Standard Version
Then after the 62 weeks, the anointed one will be cut down...

Jubilee Bible 2000
And after the sixty-two weeks the Anointed One {Heb. Messiah} shall be killed...

Douay-Rheims Bible
And after sixty-two weeks Christ shall be slain:...

Young's Literal Translation
And after the sixty and two weeks, cut off is Messiah,...

The Wycliffe Bible (1395)    
And after two and sixti woukis `of yeeris Crist schal be slayn.

These all say the very same thing: some use different words.

The ONLY timing one can get from this verse is that some time AFTER the 69th week has ended, the Messiah is put to death.

How can you or anyone else get days, weeks, months or years out of this word, AFTER?

KJV usage:  The KJV translates Strong's H310 in the following manner: after (454x), follow (78x), afterward(s) (46x), behind (44x), miscellaneous (87x).

Face it: it means AFTER. There is no time included.

Your theory is  untenable. Daniel does not get to the 70th week until the next verse.

 

 

[Daniel 11:36]

.... and He has every right to stand by His covenant with a believing remnant of Israel which He will do during the coming 70th week [Daniel 9:27]

There are two princes in the vision .... the Lord, and the other prince .... the anti-christ

Your rendition is not correct inchrist   

[Revelation Man]

On 2/13/2017 at 9:36 AM, iamlamad said:

There may not be another verse in the bible with so much controversy as Daniel 9:27. I challenge the readers to read this verse in these different translations to give the full meaning presented by Daniel. I highlighted parts that seem different than KJV.

 

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people (Romans/Europeans) of the prince that shall come (Anti-Christ/Beast/2000 years later) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;(70 AD) and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

And HE (Anti-Christ/Beast/Little Horn) will force and agreement on many for SEVEN YEARS. Ad in the middle of the Seven Years he will defile the Temple by placing am Image of Himself in the Temple. This stuns Israel, who imho have accepted Jesus as their Messiah recently, then they heed Jesus' words and flee to the wilderness. 

KEY WORDS........

1.) Confirm = gabar 1396 (Greek Word) meaning to be strong, to prevail or to act insolently.

2.) Oblation = minchah 4503 (Greek) A tribute or an offering

3.) Overspreading = kanaph 3671 (Greek) An edge, a Wing or Quarter (of a building) a pinnacle.

4.) Abominations = shiqquwts 8251 (Greek) Meaning, Disgusting, Filthy, Idolatrous or AN IDOL !!

5.) Desolate = shamem 8074 (Greek) Meaning to Stun, Grown Numb, to Stupefy, or to Devastate !!

 

 

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, inchrist said:

Zech 11:10

And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people.

Break needs to be understood as in revoke, cancel, cease, make of none effect.

A covenant is a bilateral contract..if the other party who entered into the contract fails to comply to the conditions of the Contract...God has every right to a remedy as being the victim or innocent party.... to revoke, break, retract, make void, disannul, override, cast off, overrule, quash.

Finally, after all this time, something I can agree with. The Old Covenant was a covenant between God and the children of Israel. You are right, they never kept it. finally God ended it. Paul tells us:

Romans 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

² For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

³ So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

⁴ Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

[n2thelight]

Zechariah 11:10 "And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people."

This "staff" is the shepherd's staff. Christ is the "Beauty" [Grace] cut asunder on the cross. Here we are told why he died on the cross. Jesus Christ died to break that old covenant He made with the people, and out of the old covenant, Jesus established a New Covenant. This does not replace the Old Covenant, but completes it. The promises of the Old Testament are just as valid today as when they were made.

Zechariah 11:11 "And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the Word of the Lord."

The Old Covenant was broken in the day our Lord Jesus Christ hung on the cross of Calvary. Those Kenites that called for Jesus blood, that sat in the seat of Moses, knew of the Old Covenant, and waited to for their right time to kill Him. That right time was God's appointed time. Once again, the "poor of the flock" are the "Kenites". They are those sheep traffickers of verse eleven.

Zechariah 11:12 "And I said unto them, If ye think good, So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver."

The "thirty pieces of silver", was the price of a wounded slave, and that is the price Judas received to betray His Lord [Matthew 27:3-10]. This writing here in Zechariah, prophesying in detail the things about Christ's death, was spoken in 403 B.C. Sure Judas did repent of that sin and was forgiven by God. He then took the thirty pieces back and threw them on the floor of that dirty dove, mite infested temple.

Zechariah 11:13 "And the Lord said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver and cast them to the potter in the house of the Lord."

This is exactly as it happened in Matthew 27:3-10. Though Judas didn't give it to the potter, the Kenite [those that call themselves Jews, but are not] high priest "Caiaphas" did. These Kenites Jewish religious leaders bought the potters field.

The potters field is a place where makers of pottery throw all the broken and deformed works, the clay objects of pottery that no one wants, nor can use. It illustrates that the silver used in the betrayal of Jesus Christ could not be used to purchase anything of value. It also demonstrates in detail the perfect Word of God, through prophecy being acted out in accordance with God's timing. It is symbolic that the field of the broken vessel, the wounded slave, is the price the Kenites paid to plot to murder and kill our Lord.

When a person ends up broken and on the potters heap, to the world he is a total loss. However there is hope for those that are down and out through their repentance. Our Lord offers complete forgiveness of all sin and a new life, all paid for with the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. When there is repentance in ones heart and faith that God can reshape their life if that lost soul is earnest. He knows the intent of your very heart [mind].

Zechariah 11:14 "Then I cut asunder mine other staff, and Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel."

From verse ten through thirteen we saw God's prophecy of the "Beauty" [grace] given to us, by the death of our Lord Jesus on the cross. In verse fourteen we see the prophecy of the "Bands". The "Bands", or "Union" happened a long time ago, upon King Solomon's death. At that time the twelve [12] tribes were divided into two nations, which in the Bible are called "Houses". They are named throughout the Scriptures as "the House of Israel" [ten tribes to the north], and "the House of Judah" [the Jews].

[iamlamad]

8 hours ago, inchrist said:

I dont even know how you can say that after your failed attempts "Christ doesnt break covenants"

Look here:

 Zech 11:10 - And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder,  

Daniel 9:26  After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing. 

Zech 11:10 that I might break my covenant

Daniel 9:27 In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. 

 

Sorry, did not make myself clear: MEN broke that covenant, and God finally ended it.

However, the NEW covenant is a covenant between God the Father and God the Son. It will never be broken.

Is it not the NEW covenant you are imagining is in verse 27?  After all, you imagine that Christ stopped the sacrifice and offering.

Sorry, my friend, But God will NEVER break this NEW covenant, for it is with HIMSELF. It will be impossible for man to break it.

[iamlamad]

9 hours ago, inchrist said:

I dont even know how you can say that after your failed attempts "Christ doesnt break covenants"

Look here:

 Zech 11:10 - And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder,  

Daniel 9:26  After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing. 

Zech 11:10 that I might break my covenant

Daniel 9:27 In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. 

 

Sorry, my friend, but when you add 9:27 to the others, you are in error.  The sacrifices DID NOT STOP!  Therefore your theory on "he will put an end to sacrifice and offering" is simply wrong, but you will not admit it. Obviously Daniel is speaking of something else.  What does Daniel 12 tell us? That when the sacrifices are stopped, the abomination is set up. These two go together.

Dan. 9 tells us the same thing, but not written so clearly: the sacrifices will STOP and " there shall be in the temple the abomination of desolation." Do you think these two things might just be related as they were with Antiochus?

Daniel 11:31:  And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall defile the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the continual sacrifice:

When we add what Paul wrote, that the man of sin will enter the Holy of Holies, we can immediately see what stops the FUTURE sacrifices.

[iamlamad]

9 hours ago, inchrist said:

You proved absolutly nothing here.

Daniel 9:25 

    Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem  unto (until)  Strong’s Hebrew 5704  the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks...

And then

Daniel 9:26 
    And  after  [Strong’s Hebrew 310]threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off... 

After also means follow

As noted from a number of posts from you, this is about the 10th time you fail to read scripture correctly.

Christ anointing ends the 69 week, watch this now......following Christs anointing the messiah will be cut off

Daniel is not cutting off the 70th week to allow some fantasy gap between a consecutive previous week being 69.

Grammar my friend....

Heres the flaw, you have to physically remove the crucifixion completely out of the seventy sevens or 490, it then is not part of the time frame. 

In complete violation of Daniel 9:24 and in complete violation of Christ teaching

 Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother who sins against me? Up to seven times?” 22Jesus answered, “I tell you, not just seven times, but seventy-seven times! 

The work of the Cross is set within and during the timeframe of seventy sevens, not gapped out from it.

Context and grammar

Daniel 9:24

Seventy 'sevens' are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

To finish, to put an end, to bring, to seal up, to anoint......is a continual progressive plan 

Hey what do you know iamlamad, looks like Christ knew alot about Daniel 9:24 - 9:27

He also stated this about Daniel

 So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel

You know what else Christ knew about Daniel 9:24 -27?

John 2:4,"Mine hour is not yet come."

"My time is not yet come"

"My time is at hand"

[b the hour is come" [/b]

 

It is a theory, and a theory that will not stand up to scripture.

The PURPOSE of "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem  unto  the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks..." Was so the Jews would know WHEN their Messiah would come. And in fact, HE DID come at the right time and fulfilled this part of the prophecy.  So FROM a point in time, TO a point in time, Christ was to show up.  It is a very simple concept. The "anointing" did not stop this time count, TIME stopped it.  173,880 days stopped this count.

Then Daniel said, AFTER He arrives, He will be cut off. And that is exactly what happened.  You imagine this infers some time into the 70th week, yet Daniel did not. He does not begin the 70th week until the next verse. In truth, His death was BETWEEN the 69th week and the 70th week with a GAP.
 

"you have to physically remove the crucifixion completely out of the seventy sevens or 490, it then is not part of the time frame"

So? Can you find a scripture that will PROVE His death must in included in the 70th week? I just take scripture as it is written, and don't try to force some theory to fit. The truth is, the sacrifices did not stop, proving your theory false. And the book of Revelation shows us the ENTIRE WEEK.

Finally, show us just ONE VERSE in the gospels that shows us His ministry was exactly 1260 days.

Next, demonstrate to us how you can divide a week in half when you only have a half week to work with. Make no mistake here: it is an abomination that stops the sacrifices and divides the week.

Again, your imagination is running wild! There is simply NO WAY for you to know that when Jesus said, "my time is not yet come" that He was thinking of Daniel.  After all, He said Himself that He never spoke unless He hear the Father speak first. Therefore, He knew about time from the Father. 

 

There is NO NEED to stretch scripture! There is no need to imagine things that cannot be proven. 

You still have not solved the very first problem with your theory:

The sacrifices DID NOT STOP: proving your theory false. Yet, you have spent days trying to prove a theory that cannot be proven, for it does not fit the written word.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Zechariah 11 is not simple.  To say that it says that God breaks Covenants is too simple.

Nor have the people who misconstrue Jesus as the actor of the midpoint abomination shown what exactly in His First Advent was the "abomination(s) / desolation".

I have asked plenty of times for Preterists and those holding Preterist-leaning teaching to show where in the Gospel that Jesus made a proper OT-style Covenant at the beginning of His Ministry and to date: nothing has ever been given in answer.  And no, the Spirit of God descending upon Jesus at His Baptism is not a Covenant.  No that is not a proper God-derived Covenant - a Covenant: an agreement; a quid-pro-quo partnership.

Jesus DOES make such a Covenant - at the Last Supper, at the END of His First Advent.  AND He seals that deal with His Blood.  That IS a requirement for a Covenant - literally, to "cut" a deal.  That is in Daniel 9:26.  I've had people infer that the Curtain being torn in two signifies the breaking of the Old Testament Covenant(s).  Oh really?  (O'Reillius) ~ which one?  (There is more than one Covenant God has made with Israel.)  Rather, I look at the tearing of the Curtain as the symbol that God's Spirit cannot be found within the Most Holy Place.  That He is breaking that bond, just as Zechariah does with his two staffs.

Furthermore, if Jesus is the midpoint which ends sacrifice and offering, what exactly, or who - is the abomination?  I've had fun over the years asking laymen and "certified" teachers exactly where in Hebrews it says that the Law is no longer in force too, and other than it is accepted practice; not so with the earliest Jews.  Now Paul does release us from many of the ritual restrictions, but that does not signify that the Law ceases.  Rather, it is that rote compliance, which Scripture indicates is not satisfying, is neither desired nor necessary.  That if we carry out the command to Love, we will fulfill the Law.

Zechariah 11 has more to do with God's turning away from Israel; literally abandoning her to the nations - which has been done.  This we can find in the opening in verses 4-5 as the Expositor's Bible Commentary explains:

The purpose of this section, then, is to dramatize the rejection of the coming messianic Shepherd-King and the resulting rejection of Israel, ending in their judgment.

In Zechariah 11, he plays many parts: the Good Shepherd, Judas Iscariot, the Romans who destroy three shepherds in one interpretation of who are the three shepherds as being the leaders of the Zealots in the First Jewish Revolt, and finally, the evil shepherd who devours the flock - which may point to an end-time figure (false prophet/anti-Christ?).

In an alternate to the Replacement Theology preaching by several on this board:
1.) God has rejected the woman Israel and given her over to the nations.  Hosea 6:2.
2.) God will come "after" Israel on the Day of the Lord.  Joel 2.
3.) God will still salvage a Remnant of Israel and turn them back to Him after the one 'seven'.  Isaiah 4. Zechariah 8, 12, and 14.

[iamlamad]

16 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people (Romans/Europeans) of the prince that shall come (Anti-Christ/Beast/2000 years later) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;(70 AD) and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

And HE (Anti-Christ/Beast/Little Horn) will force and agreement on many for SEVEN YEARS. Ad in the middle of the Seven Years he will defile the Temple by placing am Image of Himself in the Temple. This stuns Israel, who imho have accepted Jesus as their Messiah recently, then they heed Jesus' words and flee to the wilderness. 

KEY WORDS........

1.) Confirm = gabar 1396 (Greek Word) meaning to be strong, to prevail or to act insolently.

2.) Oblation = minchah 4503 (Greek) A tribute or an offering

3.) Overspreading = kanaph 3671 (Greek) An edge, a Wing or Quarter (of a building) a pinnacle.

4.) Abominations = shiqquwts 8251 (Greek) Meaning, Disgusting, Filthy, Idolatrous or AN IDOL !!

5.) Desolate = shamem 8074 (Greek) Meaning to Stun, Grown Numb, to Stupefy, or to Devastate !!

 

 

I agree! Good post.