Daniel's 9:26 & 27: what is the Author's intent?

[iamlamad]

There may not be another verse in the bible with so much controversy as Daniel 9:27. I challenge the readers to read this verse in these different translations to give the full meaning presented by Daniel. I highlighted parts that seem different than KJV.

J.P. Green's Literal:  27 And he shall confirm a covenant with the many for one week. And in the middle of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the offering to cease. And on a corner of the altar will be abominations that desolate, even until the end. And that which was decreed shall pour out on the desolator.

Douay-Rheims Bible:  27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many, in one week: and in the half of the week the victim and the sacrifice shall fail: and there shall be in the temple the abomination of desolation: and the desolation shall continue even to the consummation, and to the end.

The complete Jewish Bible:  27 He will make a strong covenant with leaders for one week [of years]. For half of the week he will put a stop to the sacrifice and the grain offering. On the wing of detestable things the desolator will come and continue until the already decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator."

Peshitta - Lamsa Translation:  27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for seven weeks and half of seven weeks, then he shall cause the sacrifice and gift offerings to cease, and upon the horns of the altar the abomination of desolation; and the desolation shall continue until the end of the appointed time; the city shall remain desolate.

Wycliff Bible:  27  Forsothe (Indeed) o wouk `of yeeris (a week of years) schal conferme the couenaunt (shall confirm the covenant) to many men, and the offryng and sacrifice schal faile ( offering and sacrifice shall fail) in the myddis of the wouke of yeeris (in the middle of he week of years) ; and abhomynacioun of desolacioun (an abomination of desolation) schal be in the temple, (shall be in the temple) and the desolacioun schal contynue (the desolation shall continue) til to the parformyng and ende. (till the performing and end.)

Miles Coverdale Bible:   He shall make a stronge bonde with many, for the space of a weke: and when the weke is half gone, he shal put downe the slayne and meatoffringe. And in the temple there shalbe an abhominable desolacio, till it haue destroyed all. And it is concluded, yt this waistinge shal continue vnto the ende.

Some have said that Daniel 9:27 is not talking about the "abomination of desolation" that Jesus spoke of. Yet when we see other translations, we see that Jesus was probably quoting from this verse in Daniel.  In other words, Daniel 9 certain covers this abomination of desolation. However, Daniel also wrote of it in chapter 12:

 Daniel 12:11  (Peshitta - Lamsa) And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be abolished, and the abomination is given to destruction, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Young's literal:  and from the time of the turning aside of the perpetual [sacrifice], and to the giving out of the desolating abomination, [are] days a thousand, two hundred, and ninety.

Then Daniel told us of the abomination done by Antiochus Epiphanes: This is a TYPE of what the Beast of Rev. 13 will do in our future.

Douay-Rheims Bible: Daniel 11:31:  And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall defile the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the continual sacrifice: and they shall place there the abomination unto desolation.

King James:  And armes shal stand on his part, and they shall pollute the Sanctuarie of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shal place the abomination that maketh desolate.

In every one of these verses, the daily sacrifice is stopped. That means, ceased: the next day there will NOT BE a sacrifice. The Complete Jewish Bible probably says it best: "put a stop to the sacrifice and the grain offering." How can anyone misread "put a stop to?"

Question: the theory that Jesus' death, burial and resurrection is what stopped the daily sacrifices has been proposed on this forum. When we understand that the daily sacrifices DID NOT STOP when Jesus died, and did not stop when he rose from the dead, but continued on for many years, how can it be possible that anyone can still hold to that theory?  The truth is, Jesus did NOT stop the daily sacrifices: these verses tell us it is the placing of an abomination in the temple that stops the sacrifices. All Jesus did was stop the NEED for these sacrifices.

Comparing all these translations, and these verses: it is clear, there is an abomination that will cause the daily sacrifices to cease at the midpoint (halfway point) of the week. That abomination will be placed (or will walk) into the Holy of Holies, and then from that time, desolations will continue to the end.

Question: since the stopping of the daily sacrifices and the presence of the abomination of desolation are found right next to each other in one sentence, can we establish a cause and effect relationship? i think we can. The Old Testament tells us if the temple is desecrated, it must be cleansed before Sacrifices can continue again.

Now, what can we find in the New Testament that will confirm this?

Matthew 24: ¹⁵ When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

How can anyone with common sense deny that this is speaking of the same thing we found in Daniel? Jesus is quoting Daniel! And Jesus is answering a question about the end of the age. This end of the age is still ahead of us today.  Now let's examine this event: the conclusion from all the scriptures in Daniel is that an EVENT: the placing of an abomination in the temple, will cause the daily sacrifices to stop. And this event will be what divides the week.

Question: how in the world can an event in our future divide a week, if we don't have an entire week to divide? It would be impossible. There MUST BE an entire week in our future that can be divided into two equal halves. The scriptures prove it is an abomination that will divided the week and stop the daily sacrifices.  Jesus Himself put this abomination into our future (the end of the age).  Therefore, if it is the abomination that divided the week, THERE MUST BE A WEEK TO DIVIDE at the same time.

Then there is another point: the HE that confirms a covenant is the same HE that will break this covenant.

Question: can anyone imagine that Jesus Christ would break a covenant after 3 1/2 years? Does GOD break covenants?

It seems the scriptural evidence is overwhelming that sometime in our future, someone will enter the temple or place in the temple an abomination, and this will stop the sacrifices and will divide the week.  Paul tells us that the man of sin will accomplish this.

Comments?

Edited February 13, 2017 by iamlamad

[Daniel 11:36]

Agreed

It is the Lord who will confirm His covenant with the believing remnant of Israel during the 70th week still pending

.... it is the other prince who will come to desecrate Israel

Both will take place during the 70th week decreed

There is nothing in the vision of 9:24-27 that discusses any past fulfillment .... all of this drama is still pending

The Lord was cut off at the end of the 69th week and had nothing

However, He will again emerge during the 70th week and bring His tribulation [Revelation 6:12-17]

Most interpreters either put all of the 70th week into the end time prophecies of the first century or at the least 1/2 of the period .... neither is correct    

[firestormx]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

It seems the scriptural evidence is overwhelming that sometime in our future, someone will enter the temple or place in the temple an abomination, and this will stop the sacrifices and will divide the week.  Paul tells us that the man of sin will accomplish this.

Comments?

 

Great post, top to bottom!

[Daniel 11:36]

The cut before the week at the end of the 69th is the first issue

Then He will confirm the covenant that He has already made with a believing remnant of Israel during the 70th yet to come

.... and then He will put the other prince away at the battle of Armageddon

Believe this 

[Ezra]

4 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Comments?

One has to be seriously deluded to substitute Christ for the Antichrist in connection with the Abomination of Desolation. But then we live in an age when Scripture is being turned on its head at every opportunity.

[iamlamad]

inchrist wrote,

Posted 2 hours ago · Report post

 

6 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Question: can anyone imagine that Jesus Christ would break a covenant after 3 1/2 years? Does GOD break covenants?

Because Hebrews actually deals with this and shows that the Old Testament sacrificial system were temporal

In addition, the blood sacrifices of the Old Testament also foreshadowed the coming of Jesus and His death upon the cross. 

 

Thats why!

Wow. Again I am amazed at your answer.  You are sure good at side-stepping! This is a classic no sequitur. The covenant in question is a 7 year covenant! Not a 7 century covenant or 7 millennia covenant!

Face it: it is NOT Christ that makes the 7 year covenant. Oh, don't misunderstand further than you have: Christ with the Holy Spirit is the Author of the bible, and He used Daniel to write about this 7 year covenant. But that is because He knows the future.

Sorry, your theories simply don't line up with what is written.

[iamlamad]

inchrist wrote,

 

 

Quote

 The HE that confirms a covenant is the same HE that will break this covenant.

The text says makes a covenant with many . It does not say makes a covenant with just Jews....the word is many. 

Pray tell how is the antichrist going to cut a covenant to God (which would be the opposite of an antichrist, but anyway).....makes a covenant to God with many people with Judaic animal sacrifices. Now why would an Alaskan Eskimo ( part of the many) go into a jewish sacrifical ritual with the antichrist?

So far, we are only talking about who MAKES this covenant. Again, you make another sidestep.  Time will tell HOW this covenant for 7 years is made. What God tells us is that it WILL be made.

Sorry, Daniel does not tell us that God has anything to do with this covenant. It seems it will be between the Beast's kingdom (Rev. 17) and Israel. But it could be with more that just Israel. Daniel does not tell us. We don't know who "the many" are. If we needed to know, Daniel would have told us.

Aren't you stretching a little? Only Israel will build a temple and hold sacrifices. Eskimos will continue to do what Eskimos do. And again, we don't know who "the many" are. Are there not "many" in Israel today?

Edited February 13, 2017 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

inchrist wrote,

Then your other problem, actual evidence.

Like this.

Matthew 26:28 - This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many

And again 

 Mark 14:24- This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many, he said to them.

We have these verses in Daniel for evidence. It is enough.

And this 7 year covenant will not be with Christ's blood. Have you ever read:

Hebrews 9:12

Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Yes, indeed, Christ's blood was poured out for the world. No question there.

But we are talking about a DIFFERENT covenant, that is only for 7 years: a covenant made by man for man.  God only told us it would happen. And whoever makes this covenant with Israel will break it -so CLEARLY not Christ.

Edited February 13, 2017 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, inchrist said:

Notice Christ doesnt state the entire verse in Daniel, only the latter half of the 70th week that still needs to be fulfilled.

You know why?

Because Christ standing as anointed High Priest (fulfilling the measurement of time until the anointed) in the synagogue reading what his ministry is going to be:

The Spirit of the Sovereign Lord is on me, because the Lord has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor

Then CUTS Isaiah 61 in the midst only leaving the latter half of Isaiah to be completed in the latter half of the 70th week and the day of vengeance of our God,to comfort all who mourn

Christ even tells you that His ministry is going to be cut, because Christ was being prophetic with what he was doing with Isaiah 61.

The only place for any gap is where it states a cut in the midst of the week.

 

He states enough so that we know He was speaking of the same thing Daniel wrote of: that some time in our future, a man will make a 7 year covenant and then break it after 3 1/2 years.

By the way, you are still missing something. Your preconceived glasses again! From Daniel we can be sure that what divides the week will be an abomination set up in the temple. Jesus made it clear this abomination was to happen at the end of this age. So if we have an abomination ahead of us, we can be sure, we will have an entire week for that abomination to divide. It cannot be any other way.

Why fight it? Your theory has been proven false. Jesus did NOT cause the daily sacrifices to cease, as is written. But an abomination in our future will.

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Ezra said:

One has to be seriously deluded to substitute Christ for the Antichrist in connection with the Abomination of Desolation. But then we live in an age when Scripture is being turned on its head at every opportunity.

You said that right!