Guest shiloh357 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, ruck1b said: I see that you are not actually reading. No, your attempt to use the constitution to support your brittle claim is nonsense. Also, I stated that they should not be involved and they have not right to be involved. Only individual citizens have that right. Evidently, based on the evidence, you're wrong. Organizations have the right, and they are exercising that right despite what you claim. So far none of these organizations has been sued for exercising a right they do not have. So yes, they have the right, and you are simply wrong. Quote Churches also fall in that category. If churches can't vote why should they be able to impact laws. Because the people in those churches do vote and churches should have the right to speak out on those issues and influence how people vote just like unions and other organization. Quote That goes for any business or any other entity that is not an individual citizen. Maybe you should go back and re read what I actually said before addressing my comments with faulty counter arguments. maybe you need to actually support your claims from the Constitution instead of making wild assertions that have no basis in reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruck1b Posted February 17, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 24 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 352 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 128 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/18/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 17, 2017 15 hours ago, shiloh357 said: Evidently, based on the evidence, you're wrong. Organizations have the right, and they are exercising that right despite what you claim. So far none of these organizations has been sued for exercising a right they do not have. So yes, they have the right, and you are simply wrong. Because the people in those churches do vote and churches should have the right to speak out on those issues and influence how people vote just like unions and other organization. maybe you need to actually support your claims from the Constitution instead of making wild assertions that have no basis in reality. LOL...again, your stance is faulty. No they don't have the right, but money talks. You simply don't want to acknowledge this simple principle. Just because people had slaves didn't mean they had the right to own people. I'm sure you understand the difference. No one is talking about being sued, so please save your strawmans and red herrings. Only individual citizens have the right to be involved in politics. Just because our elected officials have allowed their pockets to be lined by lobbyist don't mean these organizations have a right to be involved. Good try. Yes people in churches do vote, and they have the right to say what they want. Notice people, not the church organization, nor any other organization Why because they can't vote in an election so they don't need to be involved in anything politically. The individuals that make up those organizations can do what they want. You still fail to recognize the fundamental issue with your stance. You believe that the church should be involved in politics, do you believe the same for other religions because that is what you are opening the door for. Or does this political involvement only pertain to those who say that are "Christian churches"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 The Church should be involved in politics, that is the politics of the Kingdom of God. Being attached at the hip the Republican Party has done nothing for the church except give them a voting bloc they only pay attention to when they need to be elected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 7 hours ago, ruck1b said: LOL...again, your stance is faulty. No they don't have the right, but money talks. No, you have not provided any reason to believe they don't have the right to speak out as organizations on political issues. You need to demonstrate it from the Bill of Rights. Where does it say that only individual people may speak out on political issues? Quote You simply don't want to acknowledge this simple principle. Just because people had slaves didn't mean they had the right to own people. I'm sure you understand the difference. No one is talking about being sued, so please save your strawmans and red herrings. Only individual citizens have the right to be involved in politics. Just because our elected officials have allowed their pockets to be lined by lobbyist don't mean these organizations have a right to be involved. Good try. I have not presented any red herrings. If organizations were breaking the law by speaking out on political issues, they would be sued to stop that kind of activity. But that is not the case, because they are not breaking the law. You simply have nothing to base your opinion on except empty claims. Quote Yes people in churches do vote, and they have the right to say what they want. Notice people, not the church organization, nor any other organization Why because they can't vote in an election so they don't need to be involved in anything politically. The individuals that make up those organizations can do what they want. The Church has responsibility to speak out on moral issues and often those have bearing on political issues and government policies. Quote You still fail to recognize the fundamental issue with your stance. You believe that the church should be involved in politics, do you believe the same for other religions because that is what you are opening the door for. Or does this political involvement only pertain to those who say that are "Christian churches"? You are trying to manufacture a problem that doesn't exist. This is not about other religions. It is about Sharia law. When Christians advocate for blical moral values, that is not the same as Muslims trying to implement Sharia in an attempt to supplant our Constitution with Muslim law. If someone wants to live under Sharia law, they can go live in a Muslim country. We will not let Sharia take over our country and turn us into a Muslim nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruck1b Posted February 18, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 24 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 352 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 128 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/18/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 18, 2017 Lol...this isnt even about Shira law. This is about church organizations and frankly any organization staying out of politics. Also stop reaching. You are literally saying anything now. You present the exact reason why the church organization as well as all organizations need to stay out of politics. Sadly what I find in people with your shared mentality is a lack of care for people. There is a conditional care. Especially when it serves purposes that line pockets and/or have some pious notion attached to it.Clearly you cant be rational because that would allow you to to atleast acknowledge the idea about how organizational involment in politics has been a plight on our governmental process and a burden on the people. Yet you advocate for the church organization to go into the mix. I guess we can add even more division. It amazing that people are comfortable with this. Its quite sad actually. But ahh well. I really pains me to see just how blind us humans are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 2 hours ago, ruck1b said: Lol...this isnt even about Shira law. Yeah, it is. You drew the comparison between Sharia Law and Churches speaking out on political issues. Quote This is about church organizations and frankly any organization staying out of politics. Also stop reaching. You are literally saying anything now. You present the exact reason why the church organization as well as all organizations need to stay out of politics. No, you have been doing nothing but making these rants about why churches cannot speak out about political issues, but not really demonstrating why such things are unconstitutional. Quote Sadly what I find in people with your shared mentality is a lack of care for people. There is a conditional care. How does calling on the US government to uphold biblical values that are the basis of our laws, reveal a lack of care about people? Quote Especially when it serves purposes that line pockets and/or have some pious notion attached to it. Give some examples. Quote Clearly you cant be rational because that would allow you to to atleast acknowledge the idea about how organizational involment in politics has been a plight on our governmental process and a burden on the people. I am not going to accept it just because YOU say it is so. You'll need to actually prove that it is indeed the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruck1b Posted February 18, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 24 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 352 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 128 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/18/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 18, 2017 4 hours ago, shiloh357 said: Yeah, it is. You drew the comparison between Sharia Law and Churches speaking out on political issues. No, you have been doing nothing but making these rants about why churches cannot speak out about political issues, but not really demonstrating why such things are unconstitutional. How does calling on the US government to uphold biblical values that are the basis of our laws, reveal a lack of care about people? Give some examples. I am not going to accept it just because YOU say it is so. You'll need to actually prove that it is indeed the case. Par for the course with you. Your words literally are the proof of what Im talking about. Also this country was not built on Biblicial values. Not even close save that lie for those that believe in revisionist history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 19 minutes ago, ruck1b said: Par for the course with you. Your words literally are the proof of what Im talking about. Also this country was not built on Biblicial values. Not even close save that lie for those that believe in revisionist history. No, my words are not proof anything you said. You simply cannot prove your comments are true. Your posts are just a collection of meaningless rants void of truth. I said that the basis of our laws are biblical. The Judeo-Christian foundation of our laws and legal system are beyond dispute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted February 18, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,078 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,825 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 18, 2017 Our Government was not build on Christian values, but our nation was made great by the work and ethics of Christian people..... The country consists of We the People so our country is most definitely built on Christian principles. As for the Government,,,,, just look at the Architecture of the Buildings there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 2 hours ago, shiloh357 said: No, my words are not proof anything you said. You simply cannot prove your comments are true. Your posts are just a collection of meaningless rants void of truth. I said that the basis of our laws are biblical. The Judeo-Christian foundation of our laws and legal system are beyond dispute. People such as Thomas and John certainly contributed to the ideas of our constitutional government, but they weren't the disciples. Instead they were Hobbes and Locke respectively. An appeal to the Creator in the Declaration of Independence is hardly saying "We're doing this because we're all Christians." Now undoubtedly there were committed Christians who helped shaped our nation from the very beginning, but the US government has always been a secular government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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