SavedByGrace1981 Posted February 25, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 104 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,923 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 462 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/02/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/22/1953 Share Posted February 25, 2017 (edited) On 2/18/2017 at 9:42 AM, Bill16652 said: It is hard for me to rally around someone who lacks honesty in dealings with the media and perhaps even reality. It is even harder for me to accept that we have a liar as president and not just a liar but one who lies constantly. Yes, I do like his position on many issues butnot all, Ialso think that if he would quit the lieing many more might come on board If you want to have a discussion, can we start there? There are at least two components to politics. The issues and the candidates. Everyone who votes I assume has certain issues that are important to them. Some issues more important than others, while other issues may be deal breakers. Years ago I was a democrat. But over more recent years, that party has championed issues that I am diametrically opposed to. The result has been I have ceased being a democrat. I view their policies as harmful to the country, therefore I do not support their party or its candidates. While I am registered as an independent and not a republican, I agree with that party on a majority of issues. The issues with which I disagree are not 'deal-breakers.' (the problems I have with republicans are in they way they tend to govern once elected). So issues are one component of politics- candidates are another. Can we agree there is no perfect candidate? There was only One in human history that was Perfect, and He was not on the ballot. Trump's imperfections are legion. We are reminded every day of them (the MSM sees to that). So what? If I recall, none of the candidates in the last election were perfect. So we're left with the issues. For me, Hillary was disqualified (because she's a dem); and Trump was the closet to me on the issues than any R candidate has been in years (more recent years I have been voting 3rd party.) I understand not liking Trump. One thing that bothers me (not about him personally but about what surrounds him) is the cult of personality. I've never been a fan of those and I never will be. But I'm also bothered by those who may agree with Trump on some of the issues, but cannot get past the constant bashing and nit-picking. I just don't understand it. Blessings, -Ed Edited February 25, 2017 by SavedByGrace1981 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill16652 Posted February 25, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 288 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 312 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/25/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted February 25, 2017 59 minutes ago, SavedByGrace1981 said: If you want to have a discussion, can we start there? There are at least two components to politics. The issues and the candidates. Everyone who votes I assume has certain issues that are important to them. Some issues more important than others, while other issues may be deal breakers. Years ago I was a democrat. But over more recent years, that party has championed issues that I am diametrically opposed to. The result has been I have ceased being a democrat. I view their policies as harmful to the country, therefore I do not support their party or its candidates. While I am registered as an independent and not a republican, I agree with that party on a majority of issues. The issues with which I disagree are not 'deal-breakers.' (the problems I have with republicans are in they way they tend to govern once elected). So issues are one component of politics- candidates are another. Can we agree there is no perfect candidate? There was only One in human history that was Perfect, and He was not on the ballot. Trump's imperfections are legion. We are reminded every day of them (the MSM sees to that). So what? If I recall, none of the candidates in the last election were perfect. So we're left with the issues. For me, Hillary was disqualified (because she's a dem); and Trump was the closet to me on the issues than any R candidate has been in years (more recent years I have been voting 3rd party.) I understand not liking Trump. One thing that bothers me (not about him personally but about what surrounds him) is the cult of personality. I've never been a fan of those and I never will be. But I'm also bothered by those who may agree with Trump on some of the issues, but cannot get past the constant bashing and nit-picking. I just don't understand it. Blessings, -Ed OK, I like his stance on abortion, I like his no nonsense appraoch to trade agreements, his trying to have more american jobs, I even like a part of his stance on immigration, whyere it falls apart for me is in the details that harm people like the mother seperated from her kids and the only crime she ever did was a false social so she could work and support her family, I dont like his brash and often not well thought out executive orders. I do not like the idea of not taxing the rich and corporations as much as they should since it has been shown that most big companies are sitting on huge reserves of cash and try to pad their profit at the expense of workers. I do not like his speech concerning other countries nor his lies and misrepresentations. Yes I will agree that no political candidate is perfect or even close but he is over the top. It seems like every time he opens his mouth it is a lie and yes he does make me nervous where foreign policy is concerned, one of these days his ego is going to get us in a war. Now I know that thiose on this board do not agee and that is fine but berating the opposing view into silence is no answer as all that does is silence people, doesnt change anyones mind nor is it conducive to good discussion. I am interested in perceptions of his character and facts (real ones) dealing with the issues, anything else I willnot answer as I dont want to get in trouble and it is pointless anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedByGrace1981 Posted February 25, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 104 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,923 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 462 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/02/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/22/1953 Share Posted February 25, 2017 47 minutes ago, Bill16652 said: OK, I like his stance on abortion, I like his no nonsense appraoch to trade agreements, his trying to have more american jobs, I even like a part of his stance on immigration, whyere it falls apart for me is in the details that harm people like the mother seperated from her kids and the only crime she ever did was a false social so she could work and support her family, I dont like his brash and often not well thought out executive orders. I do not like the idea of not taxing the rich and corporations as much as they should since it has been shown that most big companies are sitting on huge reserves of cash and try to pad their profit at the expense of workers. I do not like his speech concerning other countries nor his lies and misrepresentations. Yes I will agree that no political candidate is perfect or even close but he is over the top. It seems like every time he opens his mouth it is a lie and yes he does make me nervous where foreign policy is concerned, one of these days his ego is going to get us in a war. Now I know that thiose on this board do not agee and that is fine but berating the opposing view into silence is no answer as all that does is silence people, doesnt change anyones mind nor is it conducive to good discussion. I am interested in perceptions of his character and facts (real ones) dealing with the issues, anything else I willnot answer as I dont want to get in trouble and it is pointless anyway. So even though you seem to agree with Trump on some of the issues; for you, he (the candidate) has become an issue as well? Maybe an insurmountable issue? That's a perfectly legitimate way to look at it, so no one should 'berate' you for it. I'm interested in why people look at political things the way they do. We're all unique. I've found hardly anyone who looks at political issues in the way I do - and no one who see the issues EXACTLY as I do. (Sometime I don't even agree with myself ) I guess it boils down to what one wishes to convey to others; or wishes to accomplish by engaging in political discussions. I don't like referring to Obama, but I'll do it here just to illustrate. When Obama was elected in '08, I had to contend not only with someone who I did not approve of (as an individual); but someone who was going to enact policies and GOVERN in a way that I believed was harmful for the country. Now I wasn't here then (I did frequent other political boards, however). On those, I could have listed all day long why I did not see Barack Obama as a good person or fit (by experience or temperament) to be president. But that would have changed . . . nothing. It would have changed no one's mind. Obama had his cult following; and he also had those who shared the same concerns as I. All of us however were secure and confident in our beliefs and opinions. No one's mind was going to be changed. But I could discuss his (and the democrats') policies. And as history has shown, while Obama has maintained his cult following, his party's POLICIES have proved not so politically popular. The midterm elections of '10 and '14 attest to that. (although the republicans benefit but offer nothing other than being the 'other' party on the ballot.) The point is Trump is gonna be Trump. By this time everyone knows him. Everyone has made up their mind on him. Regarding Trump, no one's mind is going to be changed. I'll close with saying I believe time and effort is better spent on discussing issues. You'll have more chance of engaging people, and who knows? Some minds may actually be changed. Blessings, -Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill16652 Posted February 25, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 288 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 312 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/25/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted February 25, 2017 Thanks Ed, I also agree with his stance on Israel, I do not agree with doing away with Obamacare with nothing tangible to replace it and when it is replaced I am afraisd that many who are insured today will not be then, these are real issues that affect a lot of people. Oh I also like his common sense approach to the bathroom issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewels7 Posted February 26, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 713 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 351 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/10/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 26, 2017 So much for leaving the topic huh? Barack Obama lied from day one of his run for the office. The change he thought we could believe in was the change that he ended up leaving as an unbelievable legacy the rest of us now have to cope with when he's gone. A mess for president Trump to clean up. But intended to be the bedrock for a Obama third term thinking his, "most qualified for the office since Jefferson (a slave owner btw)" Hillary Rotten Clinton. Who ended up losing. Knowing this in November and having to January 21st to do his worst, Obama did just that. And now there are Obama loyalists in government working to sabotage Trump's efforts. Efforts Trump undertook from day one in office. Working to keep the campaign promises he made during his run for the office. Something politicians don't do. The "Russia hacked the elections" is of course bulls lips slander. There is not one bit of proof Russia hacked our elections. Not one. In fact, the ballot booths aren't on line so the hacker notion is implausible. And even ridiculous. But that R word haunts Trump because he made the mistake of thinking of turning around a question about Russia into a working relationship hypothetical. Which the media wasn't expecting and didn't appreciate. And why not? Why not hope to make an ally of Russia to fight terrorism? As Trump asked. But going from that the Hillary campaign and the Obama agenda launched the idea that Trump worked with the Russians to beat Hillary at the polls. Because it's easier to slander Trump than it is to admit Hillary cut her own throat and lost because she was unfit for the office. What's happening now with Obama plants leaking communications like those of General Flynn's lawful actions in his short time in office is what some have called a violation of the espionage act. (Start the linked video below at 20:00 for that one) An illegal tap of a citizens phone calls ? The Sean Hannity Show February 15,2017 Podcast - Interview with Patrick Poole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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