How do you view Daniel 2

[iamlamad]

On 2/18/2017 at 4:17 PM, ProphecyKid said:

Interesting article indeed.

I was reading Daniel 2 with Daniel 7 which apparently is the same thing but with much more detail. About the 4th beast and thereafter it says:

Dan 7:23  Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. 
Dan 7:24  And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. 
Dan 7:25  And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. 
Dan 7:26  But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end. 

If that article is correct and the iron clay mix is a church-state system like the Roman Catholic Church then how do we understand those verses from Daniel 7

There is one key verse in Daniel 7 I have found. (there are probably more) where it states that the Beast (the 4th beast or the Antichrist) is put to death, but the other three kings are allowed to live for a time and a season (a year and a month?).  This tells us that all four of these beasts from chapter 7 are END TIME beasts, probably existing today. But the 4th beast has not been completely established yet, because the church is restraining this event.  It would seem that the other three point back to Babylon (Iraq), Medopersia (Iran) Alexander's Kingdom (it covered the entire Middle East, but started in Greece).  Much of the land area of these ancient empires is now Muslim nations.

[idono]

In my opinion, the fourth kingdom in Daniel 2, which the feet and toes represented are China- Russia allies together with another eight nations. Two feet represented China and Russia. Ten toes represented ten nations, which have been described as ten horns in Daniel 7 and Revelation 12, 13. 

We are now entering this era. The prophecies in Book of Daniel will soon be fulfilled.

Edited February 23, 2017 by idono

[Diaste]

Two things are true: we can only know the singular truth of any prophecy as we near the time of fulfillment, and most predictions of the truth of prophecy are therefore inaccurate.

That being said, we have before us the real time beginning of the fulfillment of a prophecy in Daniel. I like to look closely at smaller bits of prophecy. I feel that broad overviews miss important details and ideas found in single verses. Doing this adjusts the broad overview instead of the overview demanding fact that fits.

Dan 2:41-43.( My comments in red.)

"Just as you saw that the feet and toes were partly of baked clay and partly of iron, so this will be a divided kingdom; yet it will have some of the strength of iron in it,The preceding verse fits very well with Islam and the Muslim world. Islam is divided along very sharp lines from radical(ISIS) to conservative and even quite liberal. But all Muslims hold to the idea of Allah and Mohammed. So here you see the division while retaining the strength of iron which is the ideology of radical Islam.  even as you saw iron mixed with clay. In these three verses "iron mixed with clay" applies to the several aspects of the iron kingdom depicted here. It's a subtle concept that "iron mixed with clay" carries a specific meaning(two incompatible elements will exist together but not homogenize) but has a broad application. The point is the meaning of "iron mixed with clay" should not be restricted in application.  As the toes were partly iron and partly clay, so this kingdom will be partly strong and partly brittle. I'm not fully convinced of the meaning of the brittle or 'to break' nature of this idea but I suspect it has to do with make up of the radical elements, i.e., ISIS, Al-Qaeda, Al-Nusra, Boko Haram, etc. Even so, these kingdoms all have the iron-like strength of their hard ideology even as they differ in methods.  And just as you saw the iron mixed with baked clay, so the people will be a mixture and will not remain united, any more than iron mixes with clay." This last part is the clincher. ISIS is made up of people from all over the world, not just Muslims.  In this we have the iron ideology of radical Islam and sharia, mixing with the clay of deceived bandwagon jumpers. This happens everyday as is reported by dozens of news reports from the last several years. Even more telling is the migration of radical Islam and sharia to Europe and America. In European countries radical Islam creates enclaves where non-muslims are not allowed. However, these same Muslims which created the no-go enclaves shop in the malls and grocery stores. They avail the utilities of the host as well as the social programs. A more perfect example of,  "so the people will be a mixture and will not remain united," or "they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another," cannot be found in operation, in existence, at this time, in this world, ergo, we are seeing the fulfillment of Dan 2:41-43 in radical Islam in the form of ISIS and sharia, the fractured nature of radical Islam, and in the migration of Islam to the countries of the world.

 

[Diaste]

On 2/18/2017 at 11:54 AM, ProphecyKid said:

So I was reading Daniel 2 recently and looking at the vision that the king had. As I see it, the vision was basically an overview of the kingdoms that shall rule the world from his time down to the time when Jesus shall put all the manmade governments to an end and establish his kingdom. 

My question is, where in that vision are we right now?

I would assume we are in this period right here:

Dan 2:41  And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay. 
Dan 2:42  And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. 
Dan 2:43  And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay. 

I have my opinion on these verses put how do you guys view this verses in relation to where we are at now or maybe where we have been?

Agreed. We are seeing this fulfilled right now.

[Diaste]

On 2/18/2017 at 0:05 PM, Ezra said:

You are correct in your conclusions. Conservative commentators have called the mixture of iron and clay "the revived Roman Empire" since the iron remains, but is mixed with clay.  Since all the countries surrounding the Mediterranean Sea were in the Roman Empire, the Antichrist ("the little horn") will arise from this area and will have the support of those nations (which will come against Israel and Jerusalem).  As Daniel reveals, the Antichrist's kingdom will be finally reduced to rubble by Christ, and the Kingdom of God will be literally established on earth.

And all the "conservative commentators" are wrong. Not RRE. Not EU. Not UN. Islam, the radical form in ISIS, Al-Qaeda, Al-Nusra, Taliban, Boko Haram, etc. The beast will rise from the area of ancient Mesopotamia from the ruins of Babylon in the lineage of the ancient Grecian Empire, Seleucid and Antiochus IV. Rome has no part in this prophecy.

[Diaste]

On 2/19/2017 at 7:53 PM, ProphecyKid said:

Well the title might be adopted then but in 538AD the Emperor of Rome (Emperor Justinian) gave over his power to the Bishop of Rome making him the ruler of the state in addition to him being the leader of the church. Since the little horn rises up after the reign of the 4th beast had ended and the Pagan Roman Empire was broken up in 476AD, then its more plausible that the little horn power would have started somewhere around 538AD

Tilting at windmills. Rome does not fit the prophecy while the actions of Islam and Muslims fulfill the prophecy to perfection.

[Diaste]

On 2/19/2017 at 7:30 PM, eileenhat said:

I added three photos for use in previous post.

I still see the feet/toes as the Holy Roman empire (for Daniel 2 prophecy) and therefore a piece of the Beast out of the Sea (ie. Revived Rome) Rev. 13, because that prophecy was described in a particular manner.  The Beast out of the Sea in Revelations is separate but inclusive of Daniel 2, from my own research/vision about it.

You see? What does God say? And is there a fulfillment in real time? What you personally see is less important that what God is saying and the fulfillment orchestrated by the power of the Most High. 

[Diaste]

On 2/20/2017 at 7:01 AM, iamlamad said:

I personally believe the clay that will not mix is speaking of Islam. Just my opinion. They don't wish to "mix" with any European nation: they want to overcome that nation and establish Sharia law.

Just state it outright and let 'em all cry about it; Daniel 2:41-43 is speaking to radical Islam. 

In this case personal belief aligns with the truth of God's word, a rare and beautiful thing.

[Daniel 11:36]

Agreed .... the kingdom of the beast will be a middle eastern kingdom just as the Bible tells [Micah 5:5-6]

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

Tilting at windmills. Rome does not fit the prophecy while the actions of Islam and Muslims fulfill the prophecy to perfection.

Agreed. And I might add that the land areas covered by much of these ancient empires is today all Muslim territory.

Edited February 23, 2017 by iamlamad