The Hidden Lie.

[Your closest friendnt]

21 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Wayne,

Just looking at your interests, I do love Jazz, & fancy your grandfather being bunny Berigan. Well, I would have loved to hear him jam.

Now to our topic. So glad you liked the post. I think so many are deceived by it. Was surprised I didn`t hear from those who sort of believe it & to give scriptures why. Anyway you have brought up the classic scripture that is used. So I am pleased we can have a close look at it.

`For thus says the Lord: After 70 years are completed at Babylon, I will visit you & perform my good word toward you, (Israel) & cause you to return to this place. For I know the thoughts that I think towards you, (Israel), says the Lord, thoughts of peace & not of evil, to give you a future & a hope.

Then you will call upon me & go & pray to me, & I will listen to you. And you will seek me & find me, when you search for me with all your heart. I will be found by you, (Israel) says the Lord, & I will bring you, (Israel) back from your captivity; I will gather you (Israel) from all the nations, & from all the places where I have driven you (Israel), says the Lord, & I will bring you to the place from where I cause you to be carried away captive. `(Jer. 29: 10 - 14)

As we can see this is a specific promise of the Lord to the nation of Israel which is actually in the process of being fulfilled.

Now this brings us to the difficulty that many people have had those wonderful verses given again & again to be applied to them. Now can we just pick & choose verses that were given specifically to Israel, & say, "Yes I`ll have that." No we can`t. However we can learn of God`s faithfulness to a rebellious people, we can learn of His unfailing compassion & mercy. The truth is we learn of God, His character & His purposes. So then we look at what He has specifically promised to us, believers in the Body of Christ.

God has promised to make us like Christ & that nothing can separate us from His love. (Rom. 8: 29  &  35 - 39)

`Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? .....For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.` (Rom. 8: 35 - 39)

For believers it is the Lord who finds us. He draws us to Himself. Whereas when God is talking to Israel in Jer. 29. He is saying that they will need to seek Him & turn from being a rebellious nation. Difference there.

The thing to remember about the scriptures written to Israel (& other nations) is that it is specifically about them. What we can learn is concerning God, His character & His overall purposes for Israel & the nations. The Body of Christ was NOT known & not written about.

regards, Marilyn.

 

I am not very happy with the way you have approach this subject, by saying this does not mean that advocate for those people who are one sided, and do not preach the whole message. 

One time I confronted one of those teachers, I walked up to him in front of everyone who was around him and I told him that " I didn't like his message". 

I knew what I was getting into, so I was prepared. 

What I need to say is, yes God has something good in his mind for us, but how to get there is what many do not preach, and are misleading the sheep. 

Saying that I don't disagree with you. 

To promise people something and couple it with " you are in favor, favor comes your way, promotion, makes people not to work hard, but to look for handouts. 

Yes I believe that Jesus loves us and is helping us in our jobs and in our life , out of kindness, he is not like the Lord God of the OT. 

No he is not looking for an opportunity to punish anyone, he has die for us, so he can have children to take for. 

He is helping us , whether we get involved in the Gospel or not. 

He wants us to do good in our lives but not in the expense to other. 

And he said, even though I may have plans for everyone, I still have said that I will bless you even if you follow your own plans, still I will be good to you and bless you and not withhold my love from you. 

That's who JESUS is, deferent from the OT. 

That's why he left the OLD, because he hated and dispice that environment, and he was looking forwards to come in our world and give his life for our life, and say now you are spirit from my spirit and nothing can stop me from loving you. 

Dear Marylin, most of us looked for the love of Jesus after having gone our way, and we are bitten up by many-many adversities in life, and we do not even want to live. 

So is good to hear when we are surrounded by the clouds of mistrust and dispare that someone in looking after us, and is waiting for us to make the step towards him. 

Yes he does have only the good for us in his mind, even though we have lost our way , and we want everything as a favor from him. 

Yes we need to be like him, to earn our way, good stewards. 

Sometimes I think whether or not the Lord has given them this message, because they are many philosophies out there who have copy him, and try to take his children away from him. 

They come in the church, and they also get the worship songs and the fellowship of the Sweet  Holy Spirit, that comes with that. 

A friend said to me, sometimes without my volition I can hear  worship songs sang within me. 

[Marilyn C]

13 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

 

Dear Marylin, most of us looked for the love of Jesus after having gone our way, and we are bitten up by many-many adversities in life, and we do not even want to live. 

So is good to hear when we are surrounded by the clouds of mistrust and dispare that someone in looking after us, and is waiting for us to make the step towards him. 

Yes he does have only the good for us in his mind, even though we have lost our way , and we want everything as a favor from him. 

Yes we need to be like him, to earn our way, good stewards. 

 

Hi Your closest friendnt,

Thank you for your thoughts. Yes I quite understand that especially those who have gone through many adversities as you say need to have the hope & love of God. If you read my comments again you will see that I wrote this -

God has promised to make us like Christ & that nothing can separate us from His love. (Rom. 8: 29  &  35 - 39)

`Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? .....For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.` (Rom. 8: 35 - 39

What a wonderful promise we have as believers. We need also to realise that believers will go through - tribulation, distress, persecution, famine, nakedness, peril, the sword, death, etc. Remember all the beatings & difficulties that the Apostle Paul went through -

`..from the Jews five times I received forty stripes minus one. Three times I was beaten with rods; once I was stoned; three times I was shipwrecked; a night & a day I have been in the deep; in journeys often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils of my own countrymen, in perils of the Gentiles, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; in weariness & toil, in sleeplessness often, in hunger & thirst, in fastings often, in cold & nakedness ...` (2 Cor. 11: 24 - 27)

And there is Stephen the martyr, who was stoned to death after preaching to the Jews.

So I do not see that these men were looking for a `future & hope` on this earth. They did not cry out to God, "What are you doing, we shouldn`t be going through these difficulties?" No, they knew that their `future & hope` lay in glory & that believers would go through very trying times.

To preach `a future & a hope` on this earth is to not only mislead people but warps their understand of God`s character & purpose for the Body of Christ.

BTW God in the NT is the same God as in the OT. His character is always faithful, full of mercy, is just, long suffering etc.

regards, Marilyn.

[SavedOnebyGrace]

On ‎2‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 11:18 PM, Marilyn C said:

I became aware of what I believe is a hidden lie, in the late `80`s. I have since watched it grow until it now has become a major doctrine in most organised churches.

I believe the Hidden Lie is a perversion of – God`s Plan for your life.

The `fall out` from this grave error is already apparent here on Worthy. People are disillusioned with God because he hasn`t fulfilled their dreams, or others have been asking for money to help fulfil this or that `God`s plan for their life.`

I`ll present what I believe is the Truth & the Lie, & then see what you have to say.

 

My thoughts on the truth of God`s Plan for our lives.

God`s plan for every believe is to make them like Christ.

`And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first born among many brethren.` (Rom. 8: 28 & 29)

 

How to become like Christ.

1. Focus on Christ. Learning of Him & His ways. (Heb. 12: 1 & 2,  Eph. 4: 15 & 16)

2. Learning to recognise the Holy Spirit`s promptings. To work with Him to change thoughts & attitudes. (Gal. 5: 16 – 26)

3. Develop a content, humble & thankful heart. (Phil. 2: 3 & 4)

Giftings & abilities, I believe are for serving others. (Eph. 4: 16)

 

My thoughts on the hidden lie of God`s Plan for our lives.

It is taught that God has an (earthly) destiny for each of us, `dream your dream`,

- here are 5 steps to fulfil your destiny.

-here are 7 steps to overcome obstacles to your God given destiny.

-here are 4 reasons the enemy is stopping you fulfilling your destiny, etc, etc.

A lifetime of sermons, as people are always chasing the elusive carrot of `destiny,` always expecting God to give them, make them, successful, important, etc.

 

How to fulfil your destiny. (lie)

1. Focus on self. Know who YOU are in Christ.

2. Learn the steps & obstacles regarding your destiny.

3. Don`t stop till you get your destiny

To deceive people (& probably deceived themselves) speakers use certain scriptures out of context to back up this grave error.

 

Have you heard sermons on this? What are your thoughts?

Marilyn.

I am reminded of an old Janis Joplin song.

Quote

 

JANIS JOPLIN LYRICS

"Mercedes Benz"

Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz ?
My friends all drive Porsches, I must make amends.
Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends,
So Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz ?

Oh Lord, won't you buy me a color TV ?
Dialing For Dollars is trying to find me.
I wait for delivery each day until three,
So oh Lord, won't you buy me a color TV ?

Oh Lord, won't you buy me a night on the town ?
I'm counting on you, Lord, please don't let me down.
Prove that you love me and buy the next round,
Oh Lord, won't you buy me a night on the town ?

Everybody!
Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz ?
My friends all drive Porsches, I must make amends,
Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends,
So oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz ?

That's it!

The lie has been around a long, long time.  It's just repackaged for a new audience every now and then.

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

I am reminded of an old Janis Joplin song.

The lie has been around a long, long time.  It's just repackaged for a new audience every now and then.

Hi Saved,

My hubby likes Porsches. And yes you are so right, that lie has probably been around since the early Christians when the `wolves` came in. Human nature always wants, wants, wants.

Thanks for that reminder.

Marilyn.

[warrior12]

Reading of the men who have served the Lord in mighty ways and even martyred for doing so, has brought some comfort to my life  journey thus far. It has been filled with, let's just say chasing the birds from setting on my head, i.e satan and his band of disturbers and tempters.  One man that stands out is William Tyndale.  He struggled immensely to translate  the  Bible to English against the opposition of the Catholic clergy that ruled in that day.  He was burned to the stake for his determination and goal.   

We are also reminded, that those who would live Godly would be persecuted.  Are you being persecuted christian ?, if so in what way.   We are also to share in Christ suffering as stated by Paul.  Does not matter what era you live or have lived in, trials and troubles are at your doorsteps, when you have taken up the mantle.  But rejoice.  

 

1 Peter 4King James Version (KJV)

¹² Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

¹³ But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

¹⁴ If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.

[Marilyn C]

25 minutes ago, warrior12 said:

Reading of the men who have served the Lord in mighty ways and even martyred for doing so, has brought some comfort to my life  journey thus far. It has been filled with, let's just say chasing the birds from setting on my head, i.e satan and his band of disturbers and tempters.  One man that stands out is William Tyndale.  He struggled immensely to translate  the  Bible to English against the opposition of the Catholic clergy that ruled in that day.  He was burned to the stake for his determination and goal.   

We are also reminded, that those who would live Godly would be persecuted.  Are you being persecuted christian ?, if so in what way.   We are also to share in Christ suffering as stated by Paul.  Does not matter what era you live or have lived in, trials and troubles are at your doorsteps, when you have taken up the mantle.  But rejoice.  

 

1 Peter 4King James Version (KJV)

¹² Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

¹³ But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

¹⁴ If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.

Hi warrior,

Thank you so much for reminding us of the battle we are in. The `comfy` life in the West can often lull us to `sleep,` & not focus on the main thing -Christ, & working with His Holy Spirit to make us like unto Himself. No greater future or hope.

I so loved to read that when Stephen was being stoned, the Lord, at the right hand of the Father, was standing to greet Him. This shows me with what great anticipation the Lord welcomes us into His glory.

regards, Marilyn.

[Behold]

On 2/19/2017 at 2:04 PM, Marilyn C said:

Hi Ezra,

I think you missed this part of my OP. `Giftings & abilities, I believe are for serving others. (Eph. 4: 16)`

`Christ, from whom the whole body, joined & knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which EVERY PART DOES ITS SHARE  causes the growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.` (Eph. 4: 16)

Marilyn.

The bible speaks quite a bit about "paths".

Paul speaks about each of us in the "body" having a purpose and not all have the same purpose.

Each believer has a reason to exist that also includes a job, a family, eating, sleeping, paying bills,  and do it all again the next day.

There really should be more to someone's  Christianity then comfort food, eating out, texting,  buying more stuff, and 500 Cable TV channels, or being online,... and if there isn't then how is that spending your life so that God is respected and represented by your lifestyle?

 

 

Edited March 1, 2017 by Behold

[Marilyn C]

2 hours ago, Behold said:

The bible speaks quite a bit about "paths".

Paul speaks about each of us in the "body" having a purpose and not all have the same purpose.

Each believer has a reason to exist that also includes a job, a family, eating, sleeping, paying bills,  and do it all again the next day.

There really should be more to someone's  Christianity then comfort food, eating out, texting,  buying more stuff, and 500 Cable TV channels, or being online,... and if there isn't then how is that spending your life so that God is respected and represented by your lifestyle?

 

 

Hi Behold,

A good thought there & one that needs looking at. Yes we have so many creature comforts that it can be lulling to our conscience. The carnal man just wants happiness now & material things. However Jesus, the Head of the Body, by His Holy Spirit, through the Apostle Paul, tells us -

`For you brethren have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love SERVE one another.` (Gal. 5; 13)

We all have different gifts & abilities. For example my hubby is a farmer & semi-retired. He helps neighbours & friends with their farm & shares his many years of experience & also gives many hours of free time working for others who are struggling. Myself on the other hand have been a teacher & I now help ladies to understand God`s word & listen to the Holy Spirit. They are now helping others do the same. Practical help is connected to the spiritual for hubby is able to show God`s character, `God is my helper,` (Heb. 13: 6) in very practical ways that people understand as well as having discussion with them concerning what is happening in the world. Coming alongside people over a period of time, builds trust & often people will ask Trev concerning things spiritual. 

I have a dear friend who is undergoing a very serious operation today. In my quiet time the Lord gave me a scripture for her. I texted it & she said it spoke to her heart. We all need that encouragement & it is only as we get involved in each other`s lives, serving each other, that `the joints can supply.` 

`Christ, from whom the whole body, joined & knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which EVERY PART DOES ITS SHARE  causes the growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.` (Eph. 4: 16)

The Lord is making us like Himself & setting us all in His Body which is growing to maturity. This picture that the Apostle Paul gives us of the Body is NOT what many people understand. They see the man made denominations & get discouraged, but that is only a meeting, the Lord is working by His Holy Spirit in every believer`s life, every day to -

1. Fashion a believer like Himself.

2. Help the believer use their gifts & abilities to serve others.

regards, Marilyn.

 

 

[No124get1952]

Jeremiah 29:11-14New International Version (NIV)

¹¹ For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. ¹² Then you will call on me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. ¹³ You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. ¹⁴ I will be found by you,” declares the Lord, “and will bring you back from captivity.^[a] I will gather you from all the nations and places where I have banished you,” declares the Lord, “and will bring you back to the place from which I carried you into exile.”

 

For all of you Bible scholars, please allow me to state that I understand this verse to be applying to the Hebrew exiles, but since we have been grafted into "Abraham's lineage" according to Romans, please allow me the liberty of applying this passage to our own lives.

While I agree in principle that the Church has grown lax in its teachings about destiny. This passage should prove that God has a destiny for each of us. That it is different for each of us should be easily understood, since we each have to come to faith through Jesus by own own confession. It is not too hard for me to believe that God is Sovereign and powerful enough to have a specific destiny for each of us. Ezra quoted Isaiah 61, which lays out a pretty exciting destiny for each of us. But I think that each of us, while pursuing that Isaiah 61 destiny, needs to work out his own salvation (apostle Paul's words) and seek the specific application for that. I will be 65 this year and I have spent most of my life serving God. The longer I serve Him, the more I realize that I am walking out my destiny by serving Him to the best of my ability. Have I realize that "ministry" that I believe He called me to? Yes and no. Yes, in that I have studied, learned and applied along the way. I raised 9 children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. Was that MY destiny? Yes, but only a part of it. Because now that they are all grown, God has shown me that there are more people that need ministry (the fields are white unto harvest). So, no I have not yet fulfilled my destiny, but by the time I die or Jesus raptures me, I will have fulfilled it.

While I realize we need to guard against error, we have lost at least two generations of young people because we have not "made real and living" the life that Christ has for us. Though Christ has given us abundant life, we have a) not lived in the abundance of what He promised and b) not demonstrated that abundance to our children. I am not a rich man in finances, but I AM living the abundant life because I have the abundance of  His presence.

[Marilyn C]

On ‎10‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 2:28 AM, No124get1952 said:

Jeremiah 29:11-14New International Version (NIV)

¹¹ For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. ¹² Then you will call on me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. ¹³ You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. ¹⁴ I will be found by you,” declares the Lord, “and will bring you back from captivity.^[a] I will gather you from all the nations and places where I have banished you,” declares the Lord, “and will bring you back to the place from which I carried you into exile.”

 

For all of you Bible scholars, please allow me to state that I understand this verse to be applying to the Hebrew exiles, but since we have been grafted into "Abraham's lineage" according to Romans, please allow me the liberty of applying this passage to our own lives.

While I agree in principle that the Church has grown lax in its teachings about destiny. This passage should prove that God has a destiny for each of us. That it is different for each of us should be easily understood, since we each have to come to faith through Jesus by own own confession. It is not too hard for me to believe that God is Sovereign and powerful enough to have a specific destiny for each of us. Ezra quoted Isaiah 61, which lays out a pretty exciting destiny for each of us. But I think that each of us, while pursuing that Isaiah 61 destiny, needs to work out his own salvation (apostle Paul's words) and seek the specific application for that. I will be 65 this year and I have spent most of my life serving God. The longer I serve Him, the more I realize that I am walking out my destiny by serving Him to the best of my ability. Have I realize that "ministry" that I believe He called me to? Yes and no. Yes, in that I have studied, learned and applied along the way. I raised 9 children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. Was that MY destiny? Yes, but only a part of it. Because now that they are all grown, God has shown me that there are more people that need ministry (the fields are white unto harvest). So, no I have not yet fulfilled my destiny, but by the time I die or Jesus raptures me, I will have fulfilled it.

While I realize we need to guard against error, we have lost at least two generations of young people because we have not "made real and living" the life that Christ has for us. Though Christ has given us abundant life, we have a) not lived in the abundance of what He promised and b) not demonstrated that abundance to our children. I am not a rich man in finances, but I AM living the abundant life because I have the abundance of  His presence.

Hi No124get1952, (now that`s a mouthfull)

Pleased to meet you & hear some of your journey in the Lord. And how wonderful to have raised 9 children plus minister to many others. I appreciate about the `real and living` life in Christ you mentioned & glad that you see it has not been clearly made known to `at least two generations of young people.`

Now just a couple of thoughts -

1. Jer. 29: 11 - 14. Glad you realise that it was written to the Hebrew Exiles. Then you say it also applies to us as we`ve been `grafted into Abraham`s lineage.` Are you referring to Romans 11? If we read that carefully we see that it is Christ who is the holy root & it is in Him we are grafted.

2. Destiny. Did God plan for Stephen, the martyr, to have a destiny of being killed? Or all the others down through history? I think we confuse destiny with serving -witnessing, discipling & serving others.

regards, Marilyn.