JTC Posted February 19, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,795 Content Per Day: 0.65 Reputation: 1,502 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/25/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/26/1952 Share Posted February 19, 2017 We all know we're supposed to forgive. Jesus made such a big deal out of the importance of forgiving that it can't be over stated. I have learned how to forgive everyone. But I still have 1 problem with it. What about when someone, or a group of people, won't apologize or ask to be forgiven? Moreover, suppose they don't even want you to forgive them, does God still want us to forgive them? And this issue is related to holding grudges. If someone is unjustly angry at you and doesn't care if you forgive them or not does God want us to forgive that person? I've been thinking about this for several years and it's a real issue in my life, it's not just an academic question. I finally concluded that yes, God still expects us to forgive these people. What do all of you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted February 19, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 19, 2017 Forgiveness is for each individual and is personal. Forgiveness should never depend on any form of response from another. How they receive forgiveness, even if they do not accept forgiveness, or even if they do not repent, should never persuade anyone from forgiving. That is up to the Holy Spirit to deal with, not us. We are to obey God because He asks us to, not because of the outcome. Remember all Jesus taught about forgiveness. That should be your only guideline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTC Posted February 19, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,795 Content Per Day: 0.65 Reputation: 1,502 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/25/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/26/1952 Author Share Posted February 19, 2017 21 minutes ago, OneLight said: Forgiveness is for each individual and is personal. Forgiveness should never depend on any form of response from another. How they receive forgiveness, even if they do not accept forgiveness, or even if they do not repent, should never persuade anyone from forgiving. That is up to the Holy Spirit to deal with, not us. We are to obey God because He asks us to, not because of the outcome. Remember all Jesus taught about forgiveness. That should be your only guideline. So you are agreeing with me, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted February 19, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 19, 2017 10 minutes ago, JTC said: So you are agreeing with me, right? If you are talking about your closing statement (God still expects us to forgive these people.) and not the questions you posed, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted February 19, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,644 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,831 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted February 19, 2017 Answer from the cross... "Father, forgive them, they know not what they do." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTC Posted February 19, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,795 Content Per Day: 0.65 Reputation: 1,502 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/25/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/26/1952 Author Share Posted February 19, 2017 Yes, I mean when people don't, or won't say they're sorry. That's also what can lead to grudges. Grudges are terrible things and they usually hurt us way more than the person they're directed at. For a long time I wondered if God expects us to forgive people who aren't sorry for hurting us. I mean God expects us to be sorry for our sins and ask Him to forgive us. But after years of thinking about this I concluded God wants us to forgive the other person anyway. Holding on to anger has no place in the Christian life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted February 20, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 951 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,563 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 9,044 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted February 20, 2017 11 hours ago, Yowm said: I believe we are to hold forgiveness in our heart for the offender BUT we don't declare it to them until they have asked for forgiveness. God works in the same way with us. Can that belief be reconciled with the example given in another post here (by JohnD) that states the answer comes from Jesus upon the cross? -Father forgive them for they do not know what they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTC Posted February 20, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,795 Content Per Day: 0.65 Reputation: 1,502 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/25/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/26/1952 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 I'm glad those who answered agreed with me. I said this ties is with holding grudges and here is how. As I said grudges were never 1 of my problems. I was lucky on that score. But when people who I knew all my life became angry at me for no apparent reason and never once expressed remorse they gave me a problem. I forgive them in my heart and if they were to call me I wouldn't be angry at them. But what a shame these things happen. And some of them consider themselves spirit filled Christians while the rest consider themselves devout Catholics. All this is wrong. As best as I can figure out these people judged me because I don't live the way they do. But I never did anything against them not even verbally. They simply judged me and then they decided to punish me. I wonder if God wants them to do this or if they are so messed up in their heads that they think they are obeying God. In any case they are giving me a problem because it would be very easy to develop a grudge. I just hate grudges and I refuse to have 1. I will not harbor a grudge. But don't think it's easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTC Posted February 20, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,795 Content Per Day: 0.65 Reputation: 1,502 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/25/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/26/1952 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 4 hours ago, Yowm said: Still, that forgiveness is only received by those who ask God to be forgiven. That utterance revealed a conversation of the heart of God between the Son and the Father...made audible to our ears. It is similar to this statement... 2 Corinthians 5:18-19 KJVS [18] And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; [19] To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. God has forgiven mankind in His heart (as we are to others) but mankind only receives it by faith which prompts us to ask for forgiveness and thus receive that forgiveness. Otherwise how come not all are saved if the Father has 'forgiven' all? This is why I wrestled with this issue for several years. I figured even God expects us to ask Him to forgive us. If we don't ask for forgiveness I don't know if God forgives us. But I finally concluded I'm not God and what I do know is God says forgive everyone even enemies. So I forgive them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted February 21, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 951 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,563 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 9,044 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted February 21, 2017 17 hours ago, Yowm said: Still, that forgiveness is only received by those who ask God to be forgiven. That utterance revealed a conversation of the heart of God between the Son and the Father...made audible to our ears. It is similar to this statement... 2 Corinthians 5:18-19 KJVS [18] And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; [19] To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. God has forgiven mankind in His heart (as we are to others) but mankind only receives it by faith which prompts us to ask for forgiveness and thus receive that forgiveness. Otherwise how come not all are saved if the Father has 'forgiven' all? "Otherwise how come not all are saved if the Father has 'forgiven' all?" He hasn't forgiven all. All have sinned and all are without excuse for that sin. None are forgiven except that they are perfect or perfected. For that is the standard of just and righteous God, whom will not abide sin. So what is the declaration of Jesus upon the cross intended to do if it does not forgive everyone? First it must not have been intended as universal salvation for all otherwise God has inspired Paul to speak heresy later. Second it could not include forgiving those that sin against the Holy Spirit, otherwise th erecord of Jesus speaking is in error. So seems to me, and I guess also to many others of better scholarship capacity than me, that the "them" Jesus referenced must be less than universal mankind, perhaps limited to those actually being led in the sovereign and provident realm of God's will over all of creation into crucifying our Lord that there may be that willing sacrifice that does save many, but not all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts