Churchmouse Posted February 21, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 91 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,216 Content Per Day: 0.80 Reputation: 1,014 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/29/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/02/1958 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Casting darkness on someone that is reciting the Lords Prayer before a political meeting seems to suggest that it is not being used to honor God, but to honor President Trump. Does anyone know what, if any faith Melania Trump? I know that President Trump is a bit of a showman, but what do we know of his wife? I don't really care about the continual effort to condemn everything President Trump does, but the idea that a completely different person might be so nefarious as to use God's prayer as a political stunt is casting false witness against another person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 7 minutes ago, nebula said: Are Christians not allowed to express their Christianity just because they are government officials? Whatever happened to "Congress shall make no law ... prohibiting the free exercise thereof [religion]; or abridging the freedom of speech,"? If they do the job they're elected to do in such a way that it's evident their views and actions are shaped by Jesus' work in their lives (and not shaped by party politics), I have no problem with that. What I have consistently stated I have a problem with is using their Christianity for political gain. As Jesus said, the pharisees love to go around saying their prayers out loud for the approval of men. And pharisees then are not that far removed from politicians today. 11 minutes ago, nebula said: Do you actually want to live in a nation that is ruled by the atheist decree? No God allowed? If that is what the Founding Fathers wanted, then why did they open their sessions with prayer? The mandate in scripture is to honor and obey the authorities who have been placed over us, but to submit to the Lord and the Kingdom of God when laws go against His ways. Whether I lived in a theocracy or an atheistic government, I would still follow God above all else. And I have no issue with prayer opening congress. There it isn't partisan, it's not trying to fire up the base. It's a recognition they have a God given responsibility. 13 minutes ago, nebula said: And you never answered my question: You said: "it's likely she was using The Lord's Prayer for political points. ..." And I asked: "Why do you believe this was the intention of her heart?" I challenge you - Prove it! Where is your proof for your condemnation of her? In saying "likely", I leave open the possibility that I can be wrong. I even told shiloh I hope that I am wrong. But given what I have seen in politicians and those who campaign for politicians using scripture to pander to a segment of the population, and considering that the article itself refers to it as a campaign rally, I don't believe I am wrong, but I don't know that for certain. Am I not allowed to voice my skepticism? Or do we have to be one big happy homogeneous family here where unity is replaced with uniformity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 35 minutes ago, Davida said: You are attempting to impose ill motives when you say it was just for- political gain. I just can't get my head around a Christian that has an issue with the Lord's Prayer being said in the public square especially considering the past 8 yrs of having the ONE TRUE GOD dishonored by Obama at every opportunity. I can put that aside. Making the accusation that Melania beginning with the Lord's Prayer, was just praying for political gain & assumes it was not because --The GOD, who made the heavens and the earth was being honored in that brief moment, by the most powerful Nation in the world, for all the world to see. Is it possible for you to consider that it is, as , possible and just , as, likely that the Holy Spirit inspired Melania to begin with the Lord's Prayer? I am attempting to prove nothing. I am bringing up my own belief that using scripture at campaign rallies (which the article referred to it as) is a cheap way to pander to a segment of voters, and as a Christian I don't appreciate that. I'm sorry you can't see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Davida said: I never accused you of trying to prove anything CCole, I'm just asking you to try to entertain for a moment that GOD is bigger then politics. He is, I don't disagree. But I still believe you have missed my point all along. I'm not asking you to agree, I would hope that we could disagree civilly, but that's seemingly less and less likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted February 21, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted February 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, CCole1983 said: If they do the job they're elected to do in such a way that it's evident their views and actions are shaped by Jesus' work in their lives (and not shaped by party politics), I have no problem with that. What I have consistently stated I have a problem with is using their Christianity for political gain. As Jesus said, the pharisees love to go around saying their prayers out loud for the approval of men. And pharisees then are not that far removed from politicians today. It sounds to me like you are saying that if a politician says a prayer it is for no other reason than for political gain; therefore, politicians should never pray in public or at least at a political event. Is this what you are saying? Politicians are forbidden to pray before the public? Quote The mandate in scripture is to honor and obey the authorities who have been placed over us, but to submit to the Lord and the Kingdom of God when laws go against His ways. Whether I lived in a theocracy or an atheistic government, I would still follow God above all else. And I have no issue with prayer opening congress. There it isn't partisan, it's not trying to fire up the base. It's a recognition they have a God given responsibility. But it's not OK for the First Lady to open a presidential rally with prayer? What if Melania truly wanted to recognize God? Quote In saying "likely", I leave open the possibility that I can be wrong. I even told shiloh I hope that I am wrong. But given what I have seen in politicians and those who campaign for politicians using scripture to pander to a segment of the population, and considering that the article itself refers to it as a campaign rally, I don't believe I am wrong, but I don't know that for certain. Am I not allowed to voice my skepticism? Or do we have to be one big happy homogeneous family here where unity is replaced with uniformity? My problem is that you are judging the motives of her heart without evidence. You are assuming the worst of her based on what previous words or actions from her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Churchmouse Posted February 21, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 91 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,216 Content Per Day: 0.80 Reputation: 1,014 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/29/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/02/1958 Share Posted February 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, CCole1983 said: I am attempting to prove nothing. I am bringing up my own belief that using scripture at campaign rallies (which the article referred to it as) is a cheap way to pander to a segment of voters, and as a Christian I don't appreciate that. I'm sorry you can't see that. God gave that prayer to us as a way of showing homage to him. You continue to remark that since a news article have deemed an event is something that the person having that a totally separate individual is taking it that way. The lords pray is not owned by anyone person or group. It is used by they who uses it and God alone knows the heart of that person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 1 minute ago, nebula said: It sounds to me like you are saying that if a politician says a prayer it is for no other reason than for political gain; therefore, politicians should never pray in public or at least at a political event. Is this what you are saying? No. 2 minutes ago, nebula said: What if Melania truly wanted to recognize God? Then fine. But why does it have to just be at a rally? 3 minutes ago, nebula said: My problem is that you are judging the motives of her heart without evidence. No, I am saying it is a possibility, based on what others have used scripture for previously in rallies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, Davida said: Apparently to disagree with you is to be uncivil in your eyes. Oh well. No. I disagree with a lot of people, and they with me. Most of the time it's done civilly. What I don't appreciate is words being put into my mouth when I have consistently written all throughout this post is that I don't agree with the words of Jesus being used at political rallies. I didn't say politicians shouldn't be Christians. I didn't say politicians need to stay out of church. But I get accused of saying those things and then attacked for it. That's what I don't appreciate. If you and others had actually read what I've written, perhaps you'd say "You know what, I disagree with you" and it could have been left at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, Davida said: Where was I uncivil? where are you attacked? It came from shiloh mostly, and I might be getting a couple threads confused. And the attacks are mostly what is known in theological circles as eisegesis, reading an interpretation into what I've written that I didn't intend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted February 21, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted February 21, 2017 18 minutes ago, CCole1983 said: Then fine. But why does it have to just be at a rally? What I've read about Melania - she's an introvert. She hasn't exactly been putting herself "out there." Seriously, other than the Convention, when else has she spoken in front of a crowd? If anything, she was probably very nervous taking such a bold step. Based on how she was sounding, I'm pretty sure she had a ton of butterflies fluttering in her stomach at the time. But people like you have to assign the worst motive for her based on... Quote No, I am saying it is a possibility, based on what others have used scripture for previously in rallies. As if Melania has spent her life in politics like all those others! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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