Why is speaking in tounges controversal?

[WholeyGod'schild]

14 hours ago, warrior12 said:

While you statement above sounds reasonable, it is nevertheless still questionable.   You are right, denominations is not Christianity, but we know and cannot pretend to bypass the fact that in some denominations, the so called speaking in tongues is not evident and you cannot suppress a gift that is given by God.  According to my understanding and to Acts, the spirit falls upon that person and they speak the language and it is an automatic experience.   My point was and if one put some thought into what i am portraying and also being realistic of the facts that some denomination does not have that evidence in their service and meetings shows a divide in this area of worship and the gift of tongues.  It is an issue that has always intrigued me and thus my question.   Most Baptist are loyal in their following and way of worship and to say many may or have left to go to churches where they can practice their gifts is questionable.     You are right, the Lord knows no denominations, but his children, therefore his gifts would be given across the board to every segmented parts of his people.  Therefore my question as to the divide in this area.

As you know, the Pentecostal and Charismatic  way of worship is quite different from, let's say a baptist service.  The pentecostals use music and the tempo of [if i may use this term] invoking this spirit or as some would say inviting this spirit to come and fill the place.  I have been in too much spiritual  warfare situations and knows how satan and his minions tries to decieve, even the christian into his camp. while i can talk about those things, i choose not to do so on a forum.    Who has the so called gift of tongues, then use it wisely, but as for me i have not received any of that and the gift of the Holy Spirit has been sufficient in my walk.

Speaking in tongues isn't a forced gift. God never forces anything on you. you willingly accept the gift or don't. God knows mans heart, if you are in the right mind set ( open heart and seeking the fullness of God and his gifts) and seek the gift it will be given. Man limits God and his gifts, God gives freely to man as we grow and mature. We there for associate with different denominations as they line up with our belief system and either adjust to the things they teach as fullness of God and what is God's will. As I said above we as man, limit God, saying you can give by these parameters. If we open up and seek more of God and not limit ourselves to what man says is right for them and seek what God says is right, we would all walk in a deeper fuller walk with God.

The point I was making, and to address your point, the reason certain churches don't have the evidence of tongues is they don't want it, believe in it, or come to the teaching it isn't for everyone. As for mentioned we as man but parameters and limits on God.

Ask yourself this, do "I" want to know the fullness of God, do I want to seek him deeper and deeper in prayer and gifts.

If your answers is I am already full, well then you have your answer and you are stuck in the place you are, for your growth is based on you and your walk with Christ.

If your answer is yes I want more of Christ and walk fuller and deeper in his gifts and service, well then turn off your computer find your prayer closet and get to work. God and his deeper walk is just knees and seeking him with a full open heart away.

[WholeyGod'schild]

7 hours ago, warrior12 said:

Then i must say that you have not been to a real pentecostal church, because that is not the way it is manifested there.  Sometimes the pastor would be preaching and would let out a few non-english words and it this could lead to others starting to speaking in tongues ect.  No interpretation is given and the session can end and the  pastor continue with the service.   At the culmination of a pentecostal service it is usually heightened with energetic praise and worship and the eruption of tongues for those who speak would take place.   The laying on of hands and the slaying of the spirit  accompany this.  This i found to be real spiritual forces, but is it genuine or false spirits.    All this can't be happening in one segment of the church while other churches are rather passive and it is service as usual and then home.  

Edit.  I should clarify my statement as i understand also there are many types of pentecostal church  that has different beliefs in the tongue speaking and other items of beliefs. 

I have and I felt the Holy spirit telling me this is not him, and it made me stand up and walk out. There is ritual, pagan action, performances, self serving people, showman, people educated to make a show of there time at the pulpit. Man has turned the word of God into a performance, and preaching into a art form full of tricks, one liners, zingers, and generally a man made event to earn praise, amen and some cash on the side.

They preach God but don't know him or his power. They drag people through the mud call them sinners for not taking part in their show or agreeing with them. They are a modern day group of Pharisees. I can't bundle all the churches, but probable 90% of mega churches fall into the above issues. Many men are going find they missed the mark, the led many sheep astray by their actions. Being a pastor of a church is a blessed but dangerous job. you are responsible for peoples souls and understanding of God and his rules. Many many church goers depend on the pastor of the church to lead them, and disciple them. People can and should learn of God as their personal savoir and friend, but unfortunately as I said people seek the pastor to differentiate and explain to them about god and his truths. I promise you many mega churches and many churches in general would be empty, or seeking new pastors if they got into the word, and learned who God is for themselves instead of the pastor translating the word and who God is to them.     

Don't let rocking churches and pagan activities scare you away from the gifts of the Holy Spirit. you have to find the peace of God and the love of the Holy spirit in your prayer time. Satan Tries to make the Holy spirit and his gifts scary to people by way of these Pentecostal churches and bible thumping preachers.

The Holy spirit is gentle, Kind, Patient, loving, calming, rejuvenating, filling, and your guide. God wants more of you and wants you to have more of him. Step out and feel the love and peace the Holy Spirit has for you. it is your choice, no man can make it for you, and God doesn't demand it, but requests it. it is in your court now to answers yes or no.  

Yes I am a Born again Spirit filled, Child of the most High God. in case you were wondering where I stand on the subject, and couldn't tell from my posts. 

Edited April 24, 2017 by WholeyGod'schild

[warrior12]

19 hours ago, WholeyGod'schild said:

The Holy spirit is gentle, Kind, Patient, loving, calming, rejuvenating, filling, and your guide. God wants more of you and wants you to have more of him. Step out and feel the love and peace the Holy Spirit has for you. it is your choice, no man can make it for you, and God doesn't demand it, but requests it. it is in your court now to answers yes or no.  

I will be brief with this statement .  In my Christian walk, i have encountered spiritual things that would make the best caviar seem tasteless.   I have encountered these spirits not by dabbling in any type of meditation, any practices and such.   It still goes on and they are seducing spirits vying for the soul in deceitful ways.  I will not go into explanation here about these things, but just to say the spirit world is full of entities that can play with  your senses and body too.  Doubt me, then so be it, i am writing with the Lord taking note of what is said here, i have to give an account for my statement in due time.   I say this not to discredit your experience and acceptance of the gift as you so outline, but as a caution to letting entrance of anything that is not from God.  I stand by my statement by saying, if the Lord wants you to have a gift, he will certainly make it clear that it is his to you.  There are many counterfeits and the believer must beware of where he thread.    There are things that i have experienced that just boggles the mind and sometime i wonder, how could these things be  and exist, but it does .  I ---- stop here.

Edited April 25, 2017 by warrior12

[Spock]

On 2/21/2017 at 5:55 PM, missmuffet said:

I think speaking in tongues ceased in the NT and it is not required today. What is the point of it? Jesus did not speak in tongues so why should we?

Muffet,

im not trying to trip you up here so please don't read into that, but on another thread you basically said PAUL doesn't allow for women to be pastors (even though Jesus did not say they couldn't be), and then here you say Jesus never spoke in tongues, so why should we?  Although Paul did speak in tongues, and even encouraged people to seek the gift.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you said the Bible doesn't support women pastors but clearly the Bible does encourage speaking in tongues. You know where it says that, primarily in 1 Corinthians. 

So, what is it? Do we only follow Paul when it is convenient (maybe you don't want women pastors for other reasons besides not in the Bible)  and not follow him when it is inconvenient (maybe you just don't understand the gift of tongues, as do I). 

Again, please don't interpret this as me jumping on you because I respect you greatly because I know you both love God and the Bible.  That's good enough for me. 

Spock

[missmuffet]

1 minute ago, Spock said:

Muffet,

im not trying to trip you up here so please don't read into that, but on another thread you basically said PAUL doesn't allow for women to be pastors (even though Jesus did not say they couldn't be), and then here you say Jesus never spoke in tongues, so why should we?  Although Paul did speak in tongues, and even encouraged people to seek the gift.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you said the Bible doesn't support women pastors but clearly the Bible does encourage speaking in tongues. You know where it says that, primarily in 1 Corinthians. 

So, what is it? Do we only follow Paul when it is convenient (maybe you don't want women pastors for other reasons besides not in the Bible)  and not follow him when it is inconvenient (maybe you just don't understand the gift of tongues, as do I). 

Again, please don't interpret this as me jumping on you because I respect you greatly because I know you both love God and the Bible.  That's good enough for me. 

Spock

Where in the Bible does it say or encourage to speak in tongues?

[Spock]

1 minute ago, missmuffet said:

Where in the Bible does it say or encourage to speak in tongues?

Here's one: 1 Cor 14

1Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy. 2For anyone who speaks in a tongue^a does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit. 3But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort. 4Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church. 5I would like every one of you to speak in tongues,^b but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues,^c unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified.

[missmuffet]

3 minutes ago, Spock said:

Here's one: 1 Cor 14

1Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy. 2For anyone who speaks in a tongue^a does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit. 3But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort. 4Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church. 5I would like every one of you to speak in tongues,^b but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues,^c unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified.

If it is spoken it has to be interpreted.

Is the gift of tongues for today? First Corinthians 13:8 mentions the gift of tongues ceasing, although it connects the ceasing with the arrival of the “perfect” in 1 Corinthians 13:10. Some point to a difference in the tense of the Greek verbs referring to prophecy and knowledge “ceasing” and that of tongues “being ceased” as evidence for tongues ceasing before the arrival of the “perfect.” While possible, this is not explicitly clear from the text. Some also point to passages such as Isaiah 28:11 and Joel 2:28-29 as evidence that speaking in tongues was a sign of God's oncoming judgment. First Corinthians 14:22 describes tongues as a “sign to unbelievers.” According to this argument, the gift of tongues was a warning to the Jews that God was going to judge Israel for rejecting Jesus Christ as Messiah. Therefore, when God did in fact judge Israel (with the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in A.D. 70), the gift of tongues would no longer serve its intended purpose. While this view is possible, the primary purpose of tongues being fulfilled does not necessarily demand its cessation. Scripture does not conclusively assert that the gift of speaking in tongues has ceased.

https://www.gotquestions.org/gift-of-tongues.html

[Reinitin]

12 hours ago, missmuffet said:

If it is spoken it has to be interpreted.

Is the gift of tongues for today? First Corinthians 13:8 mentions the gift of tongues ceasing, although it connects the ceasing with the arrival of the “perfect” in 1 Corinthians 13:10. Some point to a difference in the tense of the Greek verbs referring to prophecy and knowledge “ceasing” and that of tongues “being ceased” as evidence for tongues ceasing before the arrival of the “perfect.” While possible, this is not explicitly clear from the text. Some also point to passages such as Isaiah 28:11 and Joel 2:28-29 as evidence that speaking in tongues was a sign of God's oncoming judgment. First Corinthians 14:22 describes tongues as a “sign to unbelievers.” According to this argument, the gift of tongues was a warning to the Jews that God was going to judge Israel for rejecting Jesus Christ as Messiah. Therefore, when God did in fact judge Israel (with the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in A.D. 70), the gift of tongues would no longer serve its intended purpose. While this view is possible, the primary purpose of tongues being fulfilled does not necessarily demand its cessation. Scripture does not conclusively assert that the gift of speaking in tongues has ceased.

https://www.gotquestions.org/gift-of-tongues.html

Correct. Perfect is Jesus. 

[No124get1952]

It is sad that the subject of tongues is so divisive in the Body of Christ. Paul himself said he spoke in tongues more than all of the people he was writing to. He came after Jesus ascended into heaven. Actually speaking in tongues occurred AFTER Jesus ascended into heaven, so the idea that tongues ceased with Jesus is illogical at best. There are enough instances of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit with evidence of speaking in tongues to support the concept that tongues is a gift of the Holy Spirit. There appears to be an indication that Peter and the original disciples thought tongues was only for Jewish believers until Gentile believers were baptized in the Holy Spirit after one of Peter's sermons.

The only scriptures I know of that would indicate when the gifts of the Holy Spirit would be over are those referring to the end of the age or dispensation of the Holy Spirit at Christ's return. He obviously has not returned yet (because if He has, everyone in this forum is in a whole heap 'o trouble). So the Spirit gives gifts as He will (according to I Corinthians) and even Paul admonishes us to seek the best gifts.

I agree that there has been a lot of abuse of tongues in the Body of Christ at large. That is why the Bible encourages us to fellowship with those of like precious faith. For myself, I have seen too much miraculous stuff to restrict God from operating anyway He sees fit. As a church leader one must set good examples and order for the exercise of the gifts. The reason this is not done is because even church leaders have not completely studied the gifts of the Holy Spirit; how they manifest; and how they are administered. Solid teaching of Scripture is the answer. In some cases, where people will not operate under the order set down by the church, I actually agree with restricting the gifts of the Spirit. However, that is an entirely different situation than saying the gifts are not for today. I do not think anyone who says that can prove, from scripture that is so.

[JohnD]

Because they did not believe:

2 Peter 1:20–21 (AV)

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.