BobRyan Posted May 23, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 711 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 266 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/12/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 23, 2017 On 4/27/2017 at 10:36 PM, enoob57 said: Bottom line for me Scripture is given to test the spirits... tongues evades the use of Scripture to determine the spirit! I am not convinced that the 1 Cor 12 and 1 Cor 14 gift of tongues was given by God to evade the use of scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted May 23, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 711 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 266 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/12/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Teditis said: I believe that the Gift of Tongues is real and still at work in today's world. I also believe that it is widely faked by charlatans. So, what I do is look at it in the light of Scripture... how it's being used and interpreted and also the person that is demonstrating Tongues... are they "showing off" or truly being moved by the Holy Spirit. In public, is it being interpreted and does it conform to the Bible. I experienced it early in my Salvation and used it as a "prayer language" for about a year. Nobody else was around when I used it, save the first time I experienced it, and it only occurred while I was meditating on the Word as I read. Personally I know several people that still use for Prayer and I'm convinced that they're participating in something both genuine and from God... they are devout Christians and are very humbled by the Gift. You are saying that they choose when and where to speak in tongues and determine that the content of it is going to be "a prayer"? IS it because they are commanding the Holy Spirit when and where to speak and what He is allowed to say? Or is it because the tongues they are speaking is an actual language that they now know - given to them by the Holy Spirit and they can speak it whenever they wish to communicate spiritual truths? "A sign to unbelievers"? Edited May 23, 2017 by BobRyan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted May 23, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 711 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 266 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/12/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) Does anyone here who affirms the modern claims for tongues speaking - know of a case where a non-Christian hears gibberish and declares this to be a sign that the Christian God is the right God - and is the right religion?? In 1 Cor 14 Paul says that if such a non-Christian hears speach that they do not understand they will dismiss Christianity as barbarian Edited May 23, 2017 by BobRyan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Teditis Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 7 minutes ago, BobRyan said: You are saying that they choose when and where to speak in tongues and determine that the content of it is going to be "a prayer"? IS it because they are commanding the Holy Spirit when and where to speak and what He is allowed to say? Or is it because the tongues they are speaking is an actual language that they now know - given to them by the Holy Spirit and they can speak it whenever they wish to communicate spiritual truths? "A sign to unbelievers" No, not at all. Though they choose the time and place (generally) and choose to pray to God, they don't command anything at all. Though it would perhaps be better if someone who has this Gift explain it to you, I'll give you my take on it since, like I said, I used it for about a year. They keep in their mind the prayers that they have for God.. the general context of what they want to present to God in prayer. Then they begin praying in their natural language but allow the Holy Spirit to give them utterances (something that you might call gibberish). These utterances are the prayers that they wish to communicate to God but in an unknown language. They don't command the Holy Spirit to do anything.. they wait upon Him and so their prayer time can be quite lengthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted May 23, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,069 Content Per Day: 7.97 Reputation: 21,395 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Online Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted May 23, 2017 24 minutes ago, BobRyan said: I am not convinced that the 1 Cor 12 and 1 Cor 14 gift of tongues was given by God to evade the use of scripture. Out of context of what I've said quote... the whole of the point is todays tongue speaking is done without interpretation thus Scripture cannot be applied to the whatever and faith then must be applied to the experience without reasoning of Scripture... "come let us reason together saith The Lord" in Isaiah! This being self evident truth as it is what it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedOnebyGrace Posted May 23, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,054 Content Per Day: 15.36 Reputation: 5,191 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted May 23, 2017 48 minutes ago, Teditis said: I believe that the Gift of Tongues is real and still at work in today's world. I also believe that it is widely faked by charlatans. So, what I do is look at it in the light of Scripture... how it's being used and interpreted and also the person that is demonstrating Tongues... are they "showing off" or truly being moved by the Holy Spirit. In public, is it being interpreted and does it conform to the Bible. I experienced it early in my Salvation and used it as a "prayer language" for about a year. Nobody else was around when I used it, save the first time I experienced it, and it only occurred while I was meditating on the Word as I read. Personally I know several people that still use for Prayer and I'm convinced that they're participating in something both genuine and from God... they are devout Christians and are very humbled by the Gift. I generally agree with you here. As a new Christian, I spoke in tongues, mostly during prayer and meditation. As I grew in the word, I grew to distrust the "new gospel" the practitioners of speaking in tongues were preaching. I don't discount the Gift of Tongues entirely, but I do not believe everyone who claims to be speaking in tongues really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet of change Lou L Posted May 23, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 216 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 366 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/30/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 23, 2017 DELIVERANCE, TONGUES AND THE CONTROVERSY To say deliverance and tongues is controversial is a under statement. Most things of the Spirit are as well. Most of theologies are based more on ones own experience or lack thereof as opposed to the understanding of scripture. Its been said the man with a theory is at the mercy of a man with a experience. For someone to try to convince me that being born again isn't real because they have seen and heard so much falsehood, they couldn't convince me it wasn't. and so it is with my experience of the gifts of the Spirit In John ch. 9- we see the experience of a man who was born blind in confrontation with the Pharisees and there theories. These theories were based on there knowledge of scripture. they even say they trust the words of Moses more then this mans testimony of healing. Even to calling the mans parents, in hopes of them telling them that the man wasn't born blind. They were furious that there long held beliefs were being challenged. What really tick them of was Jesus performed this miracle on the Sabbath. There is a group of well meaning and concerned Christians who are reluctant to accept some of these spiritual experiences deliverance and tongues at the top of the list. These have legitimate concern as there is much error and falsehood when it comes to these things. But please don't throw out the baby with the bath water. My over 40 yrs. experience in these things has been one of some truly awesome and spiritual and Jesus uplifting up times, but there has been some things that were surely not of the Spirit of God and i confess i was guilty of some. Jesus confirms His word with signs following. When His word is used to contrive signs you have contrived signs and those should defiantly be rejected. But to limit God to our own experience or to say others have to match mine is error. We are instructed to measure the fruit of ones life and not there gifts or even there calling, they are given with out repentance. Every work or even experience including my statement here will be tried by fire and i fear not the enemy or falsehood but the cleansing fire of the Holy Spirit. We will be tested and what will remain will be fruit, now abides faith, hope, and love, the reason i fear is i am not perfected in Love. Perfect Love cast out fear and my prayer is to walk in it apart from my lack of experience or my lack of any knowledge i have acquired. If ive learned anything it is i have so much more to learn and His Word is the text book and His Spirit is the teacher. There is no reason for our enemy to contrive signs if he didn't fear the One who does the TRUE signs JESUS! the same yesterday, today, and forever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted May 23, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Share Posted May 23, 2017 9 hours ago, BobRyan said: Does anyone here who affirms the modern claims for tongues speaking - know of a case where a non-Christian hears gibberish and declares this to be a sign that the Christian God is the right God - and is the right religion?? In 1 Cor 14 Paul says that if such a non-Christian hears speach that they do not understand they will dismiss Christianity as barbarian I know of one. We lived in Alaska when I was a kid. During one of the services, the spirit moved and my mother began speaking in tongues. Nothing out of the usual for my mom or the church. No interpretation was given during the service and the service moved on. After the service was over we were approached by these people. One of them began to speak to my mom in a language I didn't understand. My mom explained she didn't understand them or the language they were speaking. It turns out this family wanted to be in church. But there was an older woman with them that spoke no English and wasn't saved. She was a native Eskimo and that was the only language she spoke. They told my mom that when she stood up and spoke in the service that she had spoken in this Eskimo's native language perfectly, talking about Jesus and the salvation that is only in him. You can choose to believe this very true story or not but God can speak through any of his children who will submit and let him. Speaking in tongues is nothing more then the Holy Spirit Giving the utterance or words ( Acts 2:4 ). The source of the utterance or words is God, not the mind or experience or heart of the person speaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlanetChee Posted May 24, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 791 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 547 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/20/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 24, 2017 Acts 2:11 "Both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians—we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.” Isaiah 28:11-13 For by people of strange lips and with a foreign tongue the Lord will speak to this people, to whom he has said, “This is rest; give rest to the weary; and this is repose”; yet they would not hear. And the word of the Lord will be to them precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, there a little, that they may go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. I think tongues are controversial today because as an example of what I've heard from certain TV ministries, people don't believe it is real. Because it sounds like gibberish. And likely it is being there are false teachers on the air that exploit any means available to take money from people of faith. The tongues that the apostles were told they were to speak in delivering the good news of our Lord as I understand it was the tongues of known languages at the time. If they were to deliver the gospel to the world they'd have to be equipped to speak to the peoples of the world. And I think that was why God bestowed upon them at Pentecost the gift of tongues. Known languages that they could then utilize to deliver his ministry to all people. I can't say today no one can speak in tongues. However, I do know when I watch those certain pastors on TV who break into what they hope is believed to be tongues, that it does sound false. And having an ear for sound and music, theirs is repetitive when they do resort to that during their sermons. Always before they pass the offering plate. It's the same gibberish, not actual tongues, known languages, peculiar to each TV pastor that resorts to that avenue of persuasion over their flock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limey_Bob Posted May 24, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 327 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 172 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/30/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 24, 2017 On 2017-2-21 at 10:01 PM, Heavenunlimited said: Yes, why? I have never spoken in tounges, ever, until sitting worship in the kitchen, it came bubbling up while I was singing. I felt this joy, more than other times, and I start to have hard to sing, it bubbled in my throat so I had to suppress it because I wanted to sing! Before and after I have heard tounges in my mind. And Im not charismatics, I dont even have a church as Im looking. All I know, it was there. But Im aware speak in tounges is controversial and I wonder why especially now when it just..happened. It's controversial, because of the constant and endless scandals ans false doctrines associated with such people and such churches. Also too many tongues folk do not demonstrate one scintilla of Christian maturity, so over the years, I've learn't whenever I see tongues people approaching me, to avoid them as to be honest, the scandals, hypocrisy and false doctrine so often promoted where I live in the UK always seems to originate from the same source. I no longer attend any fellowship, so damaged have I been by my past involvement with "holy Ghost filled people." My word of advice is to avoid these people, as they are in many cases (not all, I am not trying to argue that 100% of them are unsaved), going to damage your Christian walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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