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Who is Doing the Forgiving


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16 hours ago, Jewels7 said:

In what passage does Jesus say he'll send Paul, one like him, to do this blueprint of which you speak? 

 

Most are going back to the 12, trying to rely upon what the 12 would tell them. How many know of Paul’s distinct message today? Are we moving toward truth or moving away form truth? The Savior did not send Paul to build upon or to add further truth to the message of those who preceded Paul. (Romans 15:20) The foundation they laid was of Jesus as Messiah to the nation Israel. The Messiah is promised to Israel for the ruling over of that Kingdom, that earthly Kingdom promised that nation. Paul would not to have wanted us to mix the message of the 12 in regard to God’s program to and with the nation Israel...with the message specifically given him for the Gentiles. Paul was given that brand new revelation. He would not have wanted us to add or mix earthly Kingdom truth with the message he dispensed. He went to great lengths to separate his ministry with the ministries of those before him. 1 Corinthians 3:10 - But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 

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14 hours ago, Jayne said:

Actually, I guess they were .... perhaps it might be simpler to say they weren't Jews or even Hebrew.

The Hebrew nation started with Abraham and even though he sired 8 sons, only Isaac's line became known as Jews many centuries later.

 

After Yahweh Gave up on the nations, Yahweh experiments with a single individual of believing; Abraham’s believing withstands many a trial. Yahweh is the owner of the land, Abraham was called to. Yahweh is empowered to set conditions or residency requirements for those who would reside in it, like a landlord. Yahweh is seeking replacement tenants who are going to follow the moral rules of residence that Yahweh has established for his land. 

 

Yahweh’s promise to Abraham is formalized in a ritual ceremony called a suzerainty covenant. The patriarchical covenant, which is a covenant in which a superior party, a suzerain dictates the terms of a political treaty usually, and an inferior party obeys them. The arrangement primarily serves the interest of the suzerain, and not the vassal or the subject. So Yahweh is making a land grant to a favored subject, and there’s an ancient ritual that ratifies the oath. In this kind of covenant, the parties to the oath would pass between the split carcass of a sacrificial animal, as if to say, that they agree they will suffer the same fate as this animal, if they violate the covenant. 

 

Abraham cuts sacrificial animals in two, and Yahweh, but only Yahweh, passes between the two halves. Only Yahweh seems to be obligated by the covenant, obligated to fulfill the promise that he’s made. Abraham doesn’t appear to have any obligation in return. In this case, it is the subject, Abraham, and not the suzerain, Yahweh, who is benefited by this covenant, and that’s a complete reversal of this ritual ceremony. 

 

If Israel was to regain her land, she would have to make that confession Leviticus 26 called for. And John came offering them, soliciting that confession from the nation. When Jesus comes on the scene; Israel’s Messiah is present among them, and Jesus preaches the same message as John the Baptizer. Nothing new has begun, Israel is still being called upon to make that confession concerning their failure under the contract.

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16 hours ago, gdemoss said:

Agreed that it is of God and not of me that I am able to do what I do and that is also what I teach.  

I understand that sin is in my flesh and that sin is more powerful than I and can bring me into subjection as Paul explained in Romans 7.  And that it was the law that helped me to identify sin in my flesh. 

I also understand that through Christ in me I can have victory over sin and not be brought into subjection to sin as spoken of clearly in Romans 8.  Christ in me doing for me what I could not do for myself.

I don't see a whit of difference between Paul's preaching and Peter's.  They had the same gospel message that began in Genesis 3:16 And has been handed down through the generations.  Anyone can make a difference apparent by bending the text to fit due to nuances in word usage and phraseology.  Satan is good at that.  But the truth is that those who do the works found written in God's word gain a clear perspective while thone who do not the works but are hearers only are forced to live in self delusion.  Even so much that God will send them a strong delusion that they might be destroyed in the end.  It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

The bible has a clear message repeated over and over all throughout the pages.  God points out over and over that humans are in Sin and need to be in Christ.  Human behavior is used to show us where we error by giving us moral instruction that we could only accomplish through the spirit of God in us powering us to do the works.  Man twists around, defines and adds too the commandments so as to appear to be able to perform the works but fails to do so.  Only those who see their wretchedness and cry out to the saved from it by the Self Existent One become born again and begin living through their beloved Creator in a way they never could before.

The law was never designed as a system for the production of righteousness, or to be a system by which we can gain the victory over sin in our lives. The law was designed to be a system for the proof of a lack of righteousness when it comes to rule-keeping for righteousness with God. A return to the law-husband, that will never produce fruit no matter how good and Godly that fruit appears to people, it will never produce fruit that God can accept. That’s illegitimate fruit at the very best. It’ll not fix our flesh, and it’ll not help us gain the victory over our sinful flesh. How unfortunate today that there are so many people who are willing to acknowledge they were saved by grace then revert right back to an application of law-principle in order to stay in relationship with God. We want to be saved by grace and then we want our fellowship with God maintained by rule-keeping. You can think of a lot of ways people do that, whether it be by communion, tithing, Saturday or Sunday Sabbath-keeping, baptism. God didn’t give the law for that purpose. He gave it to shine the high beams, the spotlight on our indwelling sin.

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On February 23, 2017 at 2:59 PM, lance.dunlop said:

Not quite sure what was being said, but Willa was correct. We were saved, once and for all, and are being sanctified as he has made us perfect.

Our sins may not be able to separate us from the righteousness of Christ, but they can hinder our sanctification, as well as offend the Spirit of Grace within us. We repent, not for salvation, but for reconciling our friendship, so to speak. Not in a salvific manner, but to repair the damaged relationship with God, so we may continue in His Spirit towards glory. But at no time does His Spirit depart us.

Romans 8:11, Paul isn’t talking about God giving resurrection life to your body after it dies. He’s talking about God making alive your current physical body. In other words, God will make alive your current mortal body so that your current sinful flesh can be used as a channel through which his power deposited within you can accomplish God’s righteous works through you, it’s fruit in you. Romans 12:1, we should present our earthly bodies as vessels through which God can produce his fruit that his power within you might bring honor and glory to God. With the indwelling of God’s power deposited within you, not only does the believer have life, the believer has eternal life. The believer has life when we consider the aspect of function, that believer also has the capacity to present their members as instruments of righteousness unto God so that his power can produce it’s fruit in that believer's life. Your flesh is incapable of producing anything...no matter how moral it may appear in the eyes of people that God’s justice can accept. So, you have to render anything that the flesh produces, that the flesh has been the source of...dead. And trust in the fact that God’s power will produce it’s fruit in you and allow it to do that. So, a code of commands, a list of do’s and don’ts whether that be the Law of Moses, or some fashion of the Law of Moses, or some system that you have devised in your own mind will never provide you the ability to earn favor with God. If you think otherwise, functional death is going to be the result. You’ll never be able to function in a way that’s pleasing to God when you are operating from the standpoint of rule keeping for righteousness. 

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On February 24, 2017 at 1:58 AM, Neighbor said:

...."The human race’s sins have all been forgiven,"....

The question then arises, why are many in hell?  John Piper makes a pretty excellent presentation on the overall subject. Available at http://www.desiringgod.org/messages/for-whom-did-jesus-taste-death "FOR WHOM DID JESUS TASTE DEATH?" 

The law said that we must die because we are sinful. Well, Jesus took our death. Paul is telling us here in Galatians 2:19, Jesus died in our place. In our new identity with the Savior, we died when Jesus died, we are dead to the law. Because when Jesus died to the law, he satisfied the total claims of the law. Therefore, the law can’t touch us, Paul is saying. We are DEAD to the law.

 

Does Romans 6:1 mean that once a person becomes saved they can just go out and do anything they want to do, live anyway they want to live and still be saved? Does Paul give people a license to sin? Human reasoning would reason it that way. Divine reasoning, divine viewpoint would say, NO, GRACE IS A MUCH GREATER MOTIVATOR. It’s the love of God that constrains us, not fear that God is going to strike us dead or face the second death if we perform what we shouldn’t be performing or, don’t measure up through our performance. Are people set apart as holy in God’s sight because of their lack of sin? Or, are people set apart as holy in God’s sight because he has joined them to his son?

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On February 24, 2017 at 2:25 AM, eileenhat said:

Re:  Forbearance

God asked me to look at forbearance last night.

Galatians 5:19-26 ESV

Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. ...

https://www.openbible.info/topics/forbearance

 

While we can see patience with some merit, forbearance for another Christian and their viewpoints, is harder to come by.

I have run into a variety of levels of non acceptance.  Ranging from pure dismissal of what I am sharing to outright hostility.

Forbearance is the understanding that we each have value, even if we do not share beliefs, styles or the exact same doctrinal ideas.

Learning to listen, without overt skepticism, is a way to see this through.

While many do not feel a need to learn to listen, without judgement, it is one skill, that God demands of his troops.

The behaviors that come to mind are "enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy".

People spend very little energy and time divesting of these emotional states.  

I spent well over a decade alone looking at my emotions, as they, in a Christian, become troublesome and eventually get in the way of our walk with God.

There is no place in Heaven for them.

I did not locate any support for this action in Church services.  So I located assistance where I could find it.  It meant leaving the Church, because it is a full time occupation.  But God does travel.

God’s power is not residing upon believers today, as his power did in time past. Today, God’s power is residing within believers according to the apostle Paul and his power cannot leave. God’s power residing within us is our seal. God can be grieved, but his power cannot leave. And yet, the Scripture ascribes personality to God’s power. As an example, the Bible states that God’s power can be grieved as we see in Ephesians 4:30. You have God’s personality living inside you. God’s power could be vexed. It can be grieved. It can be resisted. It can be hindered - all words associated with personality. According to the Scripture, God’s power reveals, it testifies, it convinces, it helps, it guides, it knows, it makes intercession, it speaks, it gives life. God’s power residing within us is more than an impersonal force.

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On February 24, 2017 at 4:02 AM, Jaydog1976 said:

I do agree that many Christians argue over differing beliefs and doctrine. However I do believe that when a doctrine is being taught or held that is contrary to God's Word then it needs pointed out and discussed. False doctrine should never be left to slide right by and accepted as though true. I do believe that we are to do this in love however I Corinthians 16:13-14 "Be on your guard; stand firm in the faith; be courageous; be strong Do everything in love."

As far as emotions go God created is with them. Emotions are not wrong but they can hinder our walk with God if we allow them to be more important that Him. That is why we are commanded to have self-control over our thoughts and actions Galatians 5:22-23 "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law."

We do need to stand to the truth of God's Word but do it in love and in the right way. I know discussions can get heated and things go crazy(been there and done that). 

As far as leaving the church I would say that you cannot deduct from one bad experience that all churches are the same. It is important to worship with other believers because one we are commanded to Hebrews 10:24-25 and because this is how we as believers get to know the needs of other fellow church members. Yes I do agree that there are some,churches out there that are not good but again you can't rely some experience and say I'm done going to church. What is happening is your emotions are getting the best of you because the church doesn't agree with your viewpoint. Trust me I don't always agree with how my chair does things and sure I,get irritated. But I won't stop going to,church because of it. 

 

Our reasonable service is a reflection of our appreciation for the fact that the sin question was forever settled. Walking in the power of God is relaying upon the energizing power God provides, energizing our life of service. Not energizing us to now obey the law, but energizing us to service in light of the fact that we are no longer under law but under grace. Is agape not placing the needs of others above desire of self? Agape is serving others but notice in Galatians 5:13 “by love serve one another”. In other wards, by love we are to love. Through the instrumentality of love, we’re to love others. Through the instrumentality of who’s love we might ask are we to love others? Is it our love for God that helps us love others or is it God’s love for us that helps us to love others?

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37 minutes ago, newnature said:

After Yahweh Gave up on the nations, Yahweh experiments with a single individual of believing; Abraham......

It's hard to tell where you got this from as when I Googled it, several links came up.  Whoever the author of this blog is - well, he is dead wrong and please be aware of the lies he tells.

God never "gave up" on the nations as his plan was never to used the nations to bring forth Christ and he never decided to  "experiment" with Abraham because his plan was always to create a Hebrew nation from Abraham.  God is NOT making this up as he goes - nor spontaneously switching his plans mid-stream because he "gives up".

 

God's plans for salvation were concretely in place before the foundation of the world - so says the Bible.  Acts 2:23 says that God's plans are "deliberate" and comes from "foreknowledge".

I'll post the first link I saw that had your same post.  In case this is the one you cited from, there are other fallacies there that you need to be wary of!  I'll just cite 2 of them.

http://godsreconciliation.blogspot.com/2013/08/the-day-of-yahweh.html

  • "When Abraham prepares to slaughter his own son, Yahweh sees that blind believing can be as destructive and evil as disobedience, so Yahweh relinquishes his demand for blind obedience."  This is a horrible lie.  The Bible says in Genesis 22 that God was "testing" Abraham, NOT that God was wishy-washy and changed his mind.  AND Abraham was not "blindly obeying".  Hebrews 11 says that Abraham had already "reasoned out" [thinking for himself] that God would raised Isaac from the dead.  He believed in the promised of God - Abraham was not a robot.
  • "When Jacob undergoes a change in name, Israel, meaning one who wrestles, who struggles with Yahweh; Yahweh and humans lock in an eternal struggle, neither prevailing, yet both forever changed by their encounter with one another. "  I can't begin to describe how ludicrous this is.  God and humanity are NOT in an eternal struggle.  Those who are saved are his children and co-heirs with Christ.  GOD prevails - all the time.  And God is NOT changed by man.  God never changes - his character never alters.  So says the Bible.

Please, please take this person off of your reading list.

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12 minutes ago, Jayne said:

It's hard to tell where you got this from as when I Googled it, several links came up.  Whoever the author of this blog is - well, he is dead wrong and please be aware of the lies he tells.

God never "gave up" on the nations as his plan was never to used the nations to bring forth Christ and he never decided to  "experiment" with Abraham because his plan was always to create a Hebrew nation from Abraham.  God is NOT making this up as he goes - nor spontaneously switching his plans mid-stream because he "gives up".

 

God's plans for salvation were concretely in place before the foundation of the world - so says the Bible.  Acts 2:23 says that God's plans are "deliberate" and comes from "foreknowledge".

I'll post the first link I saw that had your same post.  In case this is the one you cited from, there are other fallacies there that you need to be wary of!  I'll just cite 2 of them.

http://godsreconciliation.blogspot.com/2013/08/the-day-of-yahweh.html

  • "When Abraham prepares to slaughter his own son, Yahweh sees that blind believing can be as destructive and evil as disobedience, so Yahweh relinquishes his demand for blind obedience."  This is a horrible lie.  The Bible says in Genesis 22 that God was "testing" Abraham, NOT that God was wishy-washy and changed his mind.  AND Abraham was not "blindly obeying".  Hebrews 11 says that Abraham had already "reasoned out" [thinking for himself] that God would raised Isaac from the dead.  He believed in the promised of God - Abraham was not a robot.
  • "When Jacob undergoes a change in name, Israel, meaning one who wrestles, who struggles with Yahweh; Yahweh and humans lock in an eternal struggle, neither prevailing, yet both forever changed by their encounter with one another. "  I can't begin to describe how ludicrous this is.  God and humanity are NOT in an eternal struggle.  Those who are saved are his children and co-heirs with Christ.  GOD prevails - all the time.  And God is NOT changed by man.  God never changes - his character never alters.  So says the Bible.

Please, please take this person off of your reading list.

We see in Romans 3:10-17 that no one has a self defense plea that will successfully excuse them from being counted worthy of God’s wrath. The natural person is the person who can only perceive things that fit in with their own human reasoning. If something is not logical to the natural person’s way of thinking they refuses to believe it, whether God said it or not, they want to remain in their comfort zone. The human race has become quite adept at mixing poison with their speech. The words come out designed to appear innocuous, but lo and behold, there is something hidden under the lips of sinful people. While their words may appear harmless and unoffending, oftentimes these words are not benign words at all. They are insidiously designed by the speaker to be laced with character venom so as to contaminate the object of the speech. Swearing isn’t the meaning of the word, this word cursing has more to do with wishing harm on another; wishing ill will toward another person; bringing another under the condemnation of ill will due to the bitterness or animosity in our hearts. Every where a person goes, you can see the results of their having been there. Destruction and misery line the pathway of the human race. We could say that the footprint of sin is easily traced to the sinner. Sin renders lasting peace impossible.

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I legitimately am not sure of what's being said here. I'm not sure if you're expanding on something, or if you're contending against something half the time.

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