OneLight Posted February 26, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 26, 2017 12 minutes ago, Bill16652 said: e asre christians (followers of Christ) but it also says we are graftedinto the vine so in thta sense we are jewish, we are followers of the Way at least I hope we all are rather than followers of doctrine or denomination. The Way is the pure form of worship we seek and desire but it will only be found in the spirit rather than the letter. We are to be spiritual rather than carnal and it is only in the spirit that we can understand Just one correction from my point of view, the Vine is Jesus, so we are grafted into Christ, not into the bloodline of Jewish people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewels7 Posted February 27, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 713 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 351 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/10/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 27, 2017 John 7:166 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted February 27, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 27, 2017 2 hours ago, Jewels7 said: John 7:166 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. All this means is that the teachings of Christ (my doctrine) are in fact the teachings of God the Father, as well as the triune Godhead. And since those teachings were handed down to the apostles, their teachings are also the teachings of God. Christ's teachings are for the whole human race, not simply for the Jews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philwynk Posted March 1, 2017 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/23/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/15/1954 Share Posted March 1, 2017 (edited) Jewels7 wrote: Quote Being he came to the lost sheep of the house of Israel as he said. Wouldn't we be reformed Jews? Or Jews of some kind, not Messianic, being Jesus fulfilled the prophecy concerning the Messiah? How did we arrive at being called Christians? As if we're following Christ's teachings as if they had no foundation in the OT Jewish faith? I think you misunderstand a few things. Jesus, while he was alive as a man in Judea, was specifically called to minister to Jews. But after His resurrection, He announced that He held full authority over everybody, both Jews and Gentiles. Recall the Great Commission: Quote "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. Therefore, you go and make disciples of every nation, baptizing them into the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey whatever I taught you." Matthew 28:18-19 The part where He says "All authority...has been given to Me" makes Him the Lord of all nations, not just the nation of Israel. The part where He says "make disciples of every nation" indicates that His disciples are to make converts outside the nation of Israel as well as inside it. The part where He says "baptizing them into the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit" makes it clear that what they're being introduced into is not strictly 1st century Judaism, since the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is not strictly part of 1st century Judaism. Trinitarian faith is something a bit different from the Jewish Law. Jesus actually said a fair amount about 1st century Jewish law, most of it negative. However, you are correct when you note that the Christ's teachings had their root in OT Judaism. He was quite clear that His source was God, the Father, and the Hebrew scriptures. Notice what He says in the Sermon on the Mount: Quote "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:17-20 This can be confusing if you don't know how Jews spoke of their scriptures in the 1st century. Did you notice how He mentioned both the Law and the Prophets? He was not talking about the Jewish Law that Paul spoke about; "the Law and the Prophets" was the 1st century Jewish shorthand way to refer to the Hebrew scriptures, what we would call "Old Testament" or Jews would call "tanakh." There were three sections in the Jewish canon, called "Law," "Prophets," and "Writings" (in Hebrew, "Torah," "Nevi'im," and "Ketuvim." The first letter of each forms the consonants TNK, from which they derive the word "tanakh.") When they made a reference to their canon of scripture, they didn't say "Bible" (that's an Anglicized version of the Latin "biblia" or the Greek "biblos") they said "The Law and the Prophets," or "The Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms," or "Moses and the Prophets," or something like that. What Jesus was saying here is that the scripture would never cease to be authoritative. He actually said, though, that the Jewish Law was not what He meant. That's why He said "Unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." The righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees was defined by what Paul called "the Law." THAT Law was imperfect; Jesus was saying that God's perfect Law would never change. The part where the Holy Spirit makes it clear that the Gentiles do not have to become Jews occurs first in Acts 10 and 11, and then gets added to in Acts 15. In Acts 15, the Jerusalem Council meets and decides that Gentiles need not obey the Jewish law but need simply refrain from pagan religious service to the demons. That's more or less what is meant by the declaration in Acts 15:28-29. Sorry that was so long. Edited March 1, 2017 by philwynk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted March 1, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,228 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,652 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted March 1, 2017 On 2/26/2017 at 7:19 AM, OneLight said: I will only try to answer one question. We can read in scripture that the disciples first called Christians in Antioch. Acts 11:26. Not sure why, as they were know to follow The Way prior to that. It was a derogatory term meaning little Christs because we are christ like. It was the Jewish Christians at Jerusalem who determined that the gentiles didn't need to become Jews first and then Messianic Jews. Instead they should not impose the law on them that they themselves couldn't keep. Paul talks about this in length in the book of Galatians. Act 15:13 And after they had become silent, James answered, saying, "Men and brethren, listen to me: Act 15:14 Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name.Act 15:15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written: Act 15:16 'AFTER THIS I WILL RETURN AND WILL REBUILD THE TABERNACLE OF DAVID, WHICH HAS FALLEN DOWN; I WILL REBUILD ITS RUINS, AND I WILL SET IT UP; Act 15:17 SO THAT THE REST OF MANKIND MAY SEEK THE LORD, EVEN ALL THE GENTILES WHO ARE CALLED BY MY NAME, SAYS THE LORD WHO DOES ALL THESE THINGS.' Act 15:18 "Known to God from eternity are all His works. Act 15:19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, Act 15:20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood. Act 15:21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath." The Council's Letter to Gentile Believers Act 15:22 Then it pleased the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas, namely, Judas who was also named Barsabas, and Silas, leading men among the brethren. Act 15:23 They wrote this letter by them: The apostles, the elders, and the brethren, To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia: Greetings. Act 15:24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, "You must be circumcised and keep the law"—to whom we gave no such commandment— Act 15:25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, Act 15:26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Act 15:27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. Act 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: Act 15:29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell. Act 15:30 So when they were sent off, they came to Antioch; and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the letter.Act 15:31 When they had read it, they rejoiced over its encouragement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewels7 Posted March 2, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 713 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 351 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/10/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 2, 2017 Thank you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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