Praise2God4ever Posted March 3, 2017 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 42 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 52 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted March 3, 2017 Anyone care to explain this verse to me? Does this mean everything a nonbeliever does is sin, everything we do not related to Christ is sin? both? or maybe even neither? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted March 3, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 3, 2017 It is best to look at the context which this verse is spoken. We can see how Paul is talking about eating/drinking and how it may make a weak brother or sister stumble. Romans 14:14-23 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died. Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil; for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. For he who serves Christ in these things is acceptable to God and approved by men. Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another. Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense. It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak. Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin. We are to consider our actions when we preform them, if it will cause someone to fall or not. If someone thinks it is a sin to eat meat, but you eat meat before them, you are causing your brother to stumble as he will consider you a sinner and perhaps you were his example in Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne Posted March 3, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 105 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 3,803 Content Per Day: 1.29 Reputation: 4,779 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted March 3, 2017 6 minutes ago, Praise2God4ever said: Anyone care to explain this verse to me? Does this mean everything a nonbeliever does is sin, everything we do not related to Christ is sin? both? or maybe even neither? It's a great teaching from Paul from Romans 14 and you really need to look at what the whole chapter is saying to know what the final verses mean. I'll try to be brief: Romans 14:1-4 Some Christians are going to hold different beliefs about what is acceptable and not acceptable. Do NOT argue with each other over this. Accept and love one another even though one of these Christians is showing a weakness in this matter because they have taken a legalistic approach to behavior. Paul gives the example of those Christians who won't eat meat - believing it affects their salvation. That's a spiritual weakness. In today's terms, it might be a woman who won't wear pants believing that this affects her salvation. Paul says do not bicker over this even though the weaker Christian is in the wrong. Do NOT let this break fellowship between you and another believer. Romans 14:5-9 Paul keeps going with another example - some Christians treat one day of the week as if it is different from all the rest and other Christians treat each day as the same. And he says that each must be convinced in his own mind. Those who practice one way do it because they want to honor the Lord and so do the others with a differing opinion. When what you do is for the glory of the Lord - that's between you and God and NOT between you and other believers. Romans 14:10-12 [For things that are not sin and do not effect eternity] - don't judge other Christians. Each Christian and lost person is going to face God and give an account to God one day. For example, I have several friends who wear dresses only, but they do not count that towards their righteousness - it's just their personal conviction. I don't judge them nor do I try to convince them otherwise. But, I have ONE acquaintance who wears dresses only who believe that women who wear pants are not saved. She is in great bondage and is very weak in this matter, but that is between her and God. I will never say anything in judgment of her unless she openly says to another woman that she is lost because she wears pants. Pants - dresses - this does NOT effect eternity. Therefore - to each his own and each will answer to God for his/her life. Romans 14:13-19 The stronger brother or sister should NEVER be a stumbling block to the weaker. If my weak acquaintance who believes that wearing pants sends you to hell invites me over for lunch or out to go shopping or to her church for a gospel singing - I am wearing a skirt or dress to be with her. I will not lord my freedom in Christ over her because it will be as Paul says - a stumbling block to her. It will grieve her. She, as a Christian woman, is dead wrong on this issue, but it is MY obligation as the stronger in the faith to be a help to her and not a stumbling block. The stronger in the faith has the greater responsibility. Paul says that we as stronger Christians cannot "destroy" the weaker ones, but it is our job to "pursue peace and mutual upbuilding". Again, Paul says that not everything is unclean. He isn't talking about sin. Lying will always be sinful. Stealing will always be sinful. Paul isn't talking about sinful behavior - he is talking about "uncleanness" or what some people believe "taints" a Christian's testimony but really does not. And finally, your passage - Romans 14:20-23 We are blessed, says Paul, if we understand that no legalistic judgments rule our faith - [again, not true sin]. However, we CANNOT destroy the fellowship or harm what God has built in terms of Christian relations JUST BECAUSE of something as stupid as food, clothing, wine, or "anything" says Paul. Those who live in Christian liberty are blessed and we do not condemn ourselves because of these benign, nonsinful issues. But for those who do, they condemn themselves with their own plaguing self-doubts and self-condemnation. And if in their own mind - something that is not sinful IS sinful to them - then they should abstain. Why? Because they have determined that their faith will not allow it. And OURS is not to fight with these people, but to help uplift them and build them up as they are weaker in the faith. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted March 4, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 185 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,224 Content Per Day: 3.34 Reputation: 16,647 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted March 4, 2017 A valid prayer is "Lord, I believe! Help my unbelief." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted March 4, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.99 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted March 4, 2017 The verse speaks about sinning against ones own conscience. Everyone has a belief system, even atheists. When one believes they habe done something wrong it is sin unto them. Upon entering into a relationship with God through Christ our beliefs change. They continuously grow as we grow in knowledge of him. What once appeared to be wrong for us, maybe something like eating pork, ends up becoming something we can do without guilt of wrong doing. We are admonished that our liberty is judged by another persons conscience because we are to love our neighbor as ourselves and each other as Christ loved us. It is a complicated matter that I find is best learned by following other seasoned Christians in a local assembly who understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted March 5, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted March 5, 2017 7 hours ago, Willa said: A valid prayer is "Lord, I believe! Help my unbelief." Amen, He knows our hearts and He meets us at the place where we are at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted March 11, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 306 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,130 Content Per Day: 4.64 Reputation: 27,806 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted March 11, 2017 Blessings Praise2God.... I think OneLight gave the most accurate response because this is not a single verse of Scripture that is applicable to all things,it must be interpreted in context and he gave you the appropriate application according to what is Written to the "church" in Rome...... So,I think you asked 2 questions,one that pertains to "us"(Believers)......the other for the "unbeliever Quote Does this mean everything a nonbeliever does is sin, everything we do not related to Christ is sin So,the answer is "No".....of course EVERYTHING a BELIEVER does,not related to Christ ,is not a sin....we do have to brush our teeth and go through the motions of just ordinary things but still,in all things we should be giving God the Glory & praying without ceasing,this too will be "ordinary things" as we walk in Spirit & in Truth as New Creatures in Christ,without any of our own effort if we are diligently seeking HIM & feeding our Spirit a steady diet of Gods Word..... Ah,now "the unbeliever"....good question really because the unbeliever is the embodiment of "sin"...he is literally "dead" in sin because his spirit has not yet been made ALIVE in Christ.....I believe the answer would be 'yes" With love-in Christ,Kwik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KPaulG Posted March 11, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 71 Topic Count: 340 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 16,834 Content Per Day: 4.73 Reputation: 13,548 Days Won: 81 Joined: 07/24/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/02/2000 Share Posted March 11, 2017 On 3/3/2017 at 0:41 PM, Jayne said: It's a great teaching from Paul from Romans 14 and you really need to look at what the whole chapter is saying to know what the final verses mean. I'll try to be brief: Romans 14:1-4 Some Christians are going to hold different beliefs about what is acceptable and not acceptable. Do NOT argue with each other over this. Accept and love one another even though one of these Christians is showing a weakness in this matter because they have taken a legalistic approach to behavior. Paul gives the example of those Christians who won't eat meat - believing it affects their salvation. That's a spiritual weakness. In today's terms, it might be a woman who won't wear pants believing that this affects her salvation. Paul says do not bicker over this even though the weaker Christian is in the wrong. Do NOT let this break fellowship between you and another believer. Romans 14:5-9 Paul keeps going with another example - some Christians treat one day of the week as if it is different from all the rest and other Christians treat each day as the same. And he says that each must be convinced in his own mind. Those who practice one way do it because they want to honor the Lord and so do the others with a differing opinion. When what you do is for the glory of the Lord - that's between you and God and NOT between you and other believers. Romans 14:10-12 [For things that are not sin and do not effect eternity] - don't judge other Christians. Each Christian and lost person is going to face God and give an account to God one day. For example, I have several friends who wear dresses only, but they do not count that towards their righteousness - it's just their personal conviction. I don't judge them nor do I try to convince them otherwise. But, I have ONE acquaintance who wears dresses only who believe that women who wear pants are not saved. She is in great bondage and is very weak in this matter, but that is between her and God. I will never say anything in judgment of her unless she openly says to another woman that she is lost because she wears pants. Pants - dresses - this does NOT effect eternity. Therefore - to each his own and each will answer to God for his/her life. Romans 14:13-19 The stronger brother or sister should NEVER be a stumbling block to the weaker. If my weak acquaintance who believes that wearing pants sends you to hell invites me over for lunch or out to go shopping or to her church for a gospel singing - I am wearing a skirt or dress to be with her. I will not lord my freedom in Christ over her because it will be as Paul says - a stumbling block to her. It will grieve her. She, as a Christian woman, is dead wrong on this issue, but it is MY obligation as the stronger in the faith to be a help to her and not a stumbling block. The stronger in the faith has the greater responsibility. Paul says that we as stronger Christians cannot "destroy" the weaker ones, but it is our job to "pursue peace and mutual upbuilding". Again, Paul says that not everything is unclean. He isn't talking about sin. Lying will always be sinful. Stealing will always be sinful. Paul isn't talking about sinful behavior - he is talking about "uncleanness" or what some people believe "taints" a Christian's testimony but really does not. And finally, your passage - Romans 14:20-23 We are blessed, says Paul, if we understand that no legalistic judgments rule our faith - [again, not true sin]. However, we CANNOT destroy the fellowship or harm what God has built in terms of Christian relations JUST BECAUSE of something as stupid as food, clothing, wine, or "anything" says Paul. Those who live in Christian liberty are blessed and we do not condemn ourselves because of these benign, nonsinful issues. But for those who do, they condemn themselves with their own plaguing self-doubts and self-condemnation. And if in their own mind - something that is not sinful IS sinful to them - then they should abstain. Why? Because they have determined that their faith will not allow it. And OURS is not to fight with these people, but to help uplift them and build them up as they are weaker in the faith. I agree. We should never let our strengths cause someone weak to be weaker in the faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1to3 Posted March 12, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 138 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,174 Content Per Day: 1.22 Reputation: 3,070 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/28/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 12, 2017 (edited) Sin is missing the mark, going contrary to Gods will for us in our lives. The products of sin lead to death. Sin corrupts, enslaves, blinds,and bears no good fruits of the Spirit of God, but rather embraces the lusts of the flesh. The more faith=faithfulness in which we seek God in all that we do, everyday of our lives, is the way , as we have repented to Him, and have invited Gods Holy Spirit to come make a home in our hearts- in us-. These actions from our part, allows God to is able to work in us, to gently nudge us of our wrongs to help correct us, by beckoning to our consciousness when we are going the wrong way. When you have given your heart to the Lord, you recognize His voice, nudging at your conscience, nudging at your heart. When He calls or speaks to your heart. He becomes your good Shepherd and when you go astray, miss the mark, fall into sin, He searches you and tries to gently bring you back home to Him and His Word. John 10:10 Because we live in a satan corrupted world , everyday there are new tests of faith=faithfulness towards God. How we handle these daily tests of faith is a testimony as to how much we understand, how much faith=faithfulness we are giving over completely to God and His Word towards these test /circumstance we are being faced with, challenged with. Gods Word say that He is faithful to those who seek Him. If we do not seek God, we disable His ability, His Word to work in us and help us, heal us, cleanse us, redeem us, transform us into His new creations. Through Christ Jesus working in our heart, we become new creations, we become the child of God He always intended for us to be. God is our Father, He loves us and promises us to never forsake us or abandon us. As long as we seek Him to help us. He stands faithful to us and IS able to help rescue, salvage us from the traps of sin. Now, can we not also stand faithful to God our Father? give Him a little love, a little trust, have a little bit of faith in who He says He is? the more we give our, trust our faith+faithfulness to God, the more it grows and grows and grows... God our Father loves us, He loved us first Can we in turn love Him? The more you love somebody, the more you want to be faithful to them. you want then to trust you like you are trusting of them. And the more you place trust in the one you love, the more the love grows and grows with your relationship. God has given us His Word that He loves us, and will never abandon us, and like a good loving and patient Father, He is also willing to show you and me how to love back, how to be faithful back,how to trust Him more and more. He is the good Father, the Good Teacher of showing us what True Love is, of what True Faith= Faithfulness is, of what true Trust in somebody is. God is LOVE and the Teacher of what TRUE love is about and what it can do. Its like a marriage, a marriage needs to have loving faithfulness flowing both ways for trust to grow and grow and for love to deepen and deepen even more and more as each day moves forward onto the next day and the next... God wants us to communicate with Him and He in turn responds back. It is a symbiotic relationship. Its not a one way relationship. Its an ongoing back and forth relationship. As faith that is not tested is not really faith. The fruits of faith are virtue. virtue that is not tested is not virtue. With every new test of faith we learn from it and grow from it and are transformed from it, step by step, into the children of God we were always intended to be. God our Father is infinitely patient with His children and also Teaches us to become patient as well.. In cultivating patience within, comes more and more understanding of Him in us, in our hearts, Patience is a virtue given from God. Patience is a sign of Gods Love working in us. When someone shows a lack of patience, they show a lack of love. When you truly have love for something that is dear to your heart, you have patience for them. As a loving parent towards your child, you teach lovingly, gently and have patience for your child as your child is learning from you. sin comes and enters us through trauma, and trauma does not come from God To be set free from the bondage's of our sinful nature, a small amount of faith, even the size of a mustard seed will do for that faith to grow more and more with each step of faith-faithfulness (trust) we place in God hands toward our situation. And His Word says that everyone is given a seed of faith to be cultivated towards and with Gods help it will grow and grow and grow. How we as individuals choose to cultivate this gift of faith freely given to us all, or not, will determine the outcome of our lives. But we are all give the same seed of faith, what we choose to do with it, makes all the difference. Romans 12:3 …2Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to discern what is the good, pleasing, and perfect will of God. 3For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but think of yourself with sober judgment,*** according to the measure of faith*** God has given you And from every little step of faith we take in Him, also our trust in our heavenly Father grows as we begin to see the fruits of His spirit manifest in us and that came forth from that initial tiny seed of faith we first placed towards trusting God with, and that we daily carefully tended to and givingly placed in God hands to work in us and grow in us more and more. Galatians 5:22-23 (what is walking hand in hand with God our Father) 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance=patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. By doing so, there will come a time, when you will truly see that the things of sin that you once were so under its spell, no longer appeals to you, like it once did when you were without being in a faithful trusting relationship with God. Galatians: 5:19 (what is missing the mark=sin, leading to eventual death of body= corrupted physical, mind=corrupted consciousness and spirit= corrupted soul) 19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. Who can help you overcome sin? God our Father can through His only begotten Son Christ Jesus and His Holy Spirit making His home in our hearts. Seek Him first in all that you do and He will bless you, heal you, redeem you back with His love and care for you transforming you step, by step, faith by faith, trust by trust, into the child of God you were always intended to be.. Do Not Worry Matthew 6:33 …32For the pagans pursue all these things, and your Heavenly Father knows what you need. 33But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you. 34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Today has enough trouble of its own. Trust in God with ALL your heart Proverbs 3: 5,6 4So you will find favor and good repute In the sight of God and man. 5Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding. 6In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He will make your paths straight.… Sometime we fail, we miss the Mark, but usually because the Holy Spirit lives in our hearts we will know , we will also know in our hearts when we are missing the mark-going into sin- The more we place our Faith and TRUST in God and His word by believing HIM and His WORD to be completely TRUE, the more God is enabled to work into our hearts and grant more and more understanding of His will for us in our lives. Edited March 13, 2017 by 1to3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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