Could the antichrist be a Muslim

[Diaste]

On 3/15/2017 at 2:16 PM, HAZARD said:

The Rapture of the Church will occur before the Tribulation.

The purpose of the rapture is to resurrect the just from the dead and take all the saints out of the world before the tribulation comes, in order that they may have fulfilled in them the purpose for which God has saved them. Jesus told the disciples that some would escape the terrible things that were to transpire on the Earth in the last days. He said, “Pray that you may be accounted worth to escape all these things of, Matt. 24, 25; Luke 21:1-19, 25-28, that shall come to pass, and stand before the Son of man,”  Luke 21:34-36. These two passages in Luke 21:34-36 and John 14:1-3, are the only ones in the Gospels that are clear concerning the Rapture. Jesus did not reveal this, it was revealed by Paul many years later in 1 Cor. 15:51. The disciples did not have the slightest idea as to how they were to escape, unless they thought that Christ would deliver them from these things through His power. The how was not revealed or even mentioned before Paul explained how they were to escape.

Not clear at all. "all these things" also include the Day of the Lord as it is written in Luke 21:25-28. This means one of the events is the Day of the Lord and the Wrath of God that is part of the Day of the Lord. And pretrib is disproven here as Jesus said our redemption draws near, Luke 21:28 "28 Now when these things begin to take place, stand up and raise your heads, because your redemption is drawing near." and the context is the signs of the coming of the son of man; well past the rise of the beast and the A of D.

And there is nothing in John 14:1-3 that shows timing of any event, just an assurance that such an event will occur as promised.

[Diaste]

On 3/18/2017 at 11:55 AM, iamlamad said:

Well written, Hazard! How amazing God has told us to pray "that we can be accounted worthy to escape all these things" yet so many want to BE HERE for all these things that are coming. They are setting their OWN appointment with God's wrath. All I can say is, good luck to those that wish to stay behind. We already know you will be overcome.

Wow. Condemning all others to death that are not part of your twisted ideology.  And your last two sentences are intolerably arrogant. You claim to know the ultimate destiny of all those who do not take place in a supposed pretrib gathering of the elect. This is tantamount to believing you have all knowledge about the life and death of millions that suffer persecution at the hands of a future tyrant. What do you say to the millions of believers around the world today that suffer persecution and death in the name of Jesus? No rapture has occurred for those people, Have they been overcome by the beast and died forever in the wrath of God?

Another low point is in assuming that only your group is worthy "to escape all these things" and the rest are a bunch of unworthy masochists that would rather suffer and die. Well, I don't 'want' to go through the coming calamity, but I'm certainly going to trust the Lord God in any case. Since it's a clear fact that millions suffer persecution today in the name of Jesus I will never expect to partake in less now, or in the future.

[TheMatrixHasU71]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

The beast is most certainly Muslim. Well, Arabic, Islamic, more to the point. The book of Daniel leads us to one conclusion about the geographical origins of the beast, The region of Mesopotamia and Babylon, the old Seleucid Empire. But not as far north as Turkey nor as far east as Syria. This is not to say the beast isn't Syrian or Turkish but to clarify where he will rise and rule. 

Turkey isnt that far north of Israel. 

[HAZARD]

On ‎24‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 10:41 PM, Diaste said:

Not clear at all. "all these things" also include the Day of the Lord as it is written in Luke 21:25-28. This means one of the events is the Day of the Lord and the Wrath of God that is part of the Day of the Lord. And pretrib is disproven here as Jesus said our redemption draws near, Luke 21:28 "28 Now when these things begin to take place, stand up and raise your heads, because your redemption is drawing near." and the context is the signs of the coming of the son of man; well past the rise of the beast and the A of D.

And there is nothing in John 14:1-3 that shows timing of any event, just an assurance that such an event will occur as promised.

It helps to get all that is written about this event.

The Rapture is a distinct coming in itself, not to the Earth, but in the air where Christ meets the saints and then takes them back to Heaven to present them blameless before God the Father, John 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:16, 17.

The Rapture takes place several years before the literal advent of Christ to the Earth, for they, the saints come back with Him at that time. The saints are in Heaven before God, and not in the air, from the time of the Rapture to their coming again with Christ to reign as kings and priests, Jude 14; Rev. 19:14; Zech. 14:5.

At the Rapture, the Lord comes from Heaven as far as the air, or Earthly Heavens and the saints will be caught up to meet Him in the air.

At the second coming, the saints are not raptured, and neither is Christ, but both will come back to the Earth together. The rapture takes place before the Tribulation, whereas the second Advent takes place after the Tribulation. The Rapture could occur at any time, whereas the second Advent cannot occur until after the tribulation.

The bible clearly states that the hinderer of lawlessness must be removed before the Antichrist is revealed,  2 Thess. 2:7-8, For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. V. 8, And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
There are only three things in the world today that hinder lawlessness. They are the church, the Holy Spirit and human governments. The hinderer that will be taken out of the world must refer to one of these three things. It could not refer to the Holy Spirit and governments for neither will be taken out of the world. It is clear that governments will not be taken for the Antichrist will reign over the ten kingdoms during the tribulation (Dan. 7:23-24; Rev. 17:8-17). The Holy Spirit will be here during the tribulation, so He could not be the hinderer taken (Acts. 2:16-21; John 14:16; Rev. 7:14; 12:17; 19:10; Zech. 12:10).

The Church will be taken out of the world,  (1 Thess. 4:16; Eph. 5:26-27; 1 Cor. 15:51-58), so this must be the hinderer referred to

If you cannot understand how the church could be referred to as "he," see Eph. 2:15; 4:13 where the church is called a "man."

The purpose of the rapture is to resurrect the just from the dead and take all the saints out of the world before the tribulation comes, in order that they may have fulfilled in them the purpose for which God has saved them. Jesus told the disciples that some would escape the terrible things that were to transpire on the Earth in the last days. He said, “Pray that you may be accounted worth to escape all these things of, Matt. 24, 25; Luke 21:1-19, 25-28, that shall come to pass, and stand before the Son of man,” Luke 21:34-36. These two passages in Luke 21:34-36 and John 14:1-3, are the only ones in the Gospels that are clear concerning the Rapture. Jesus did not reveal this, it was revealed by Paul many years later in 1 Cor. 15:51. The disciples did not have the slightest idea as to how they were to escape, unless they thought that Christ would deliver them from these things through His power. The how was not revealed or even mentioned before Paul explained how they were to escape.
The Rapture of the church should never be confused with the second coming or second advent of Christ, for He does not come to the earth at that time.
The Rapture is a distinct coming in itself, not to the Earth, but in the air where Christ meets the saints and then takes them back to Heaven to present them blameless before God the Father, John 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:16, 17.
The Rapture takes place several years before the literal advent of Christ to the Earth, for they, the saints come back with Him at that time. The saints are in Heaven before God, and not in the air, from the time of the Rapture to their coming again with Christ to reign as kings and priests, Jude 14; Rev. 19:14; Zech. 14:5.
At the Rapture, the Lord comes from Heaven as far as the air, or Earthly Heavens and the saints will be caught up to meet Him in the air.
At the second coming, the saints are not raptured, and neither is Christ, but both will come back to the Earth together. The rapture takes place before the Tribulation, whereas the second Advent takes place after the Tribulation. The Rapture could occur at any time, whereas the second Advent cannot occur until after the tribulation.

[Daniel 11:36]

Right with respect to the pre-tribulation taking of the Lord's ecclesia just before the tribulation .... no doubt

Here are the immortal ecclesia just before the tribulation [Revelation 3:10; 7:9-19] .... and here is the same emerging at the battle of Armageddon at the end of the tribulation [Zechariah 14:4-5; Revelation 19:14]

I would suggest that the stepping aside of the Lord's opening to the devil's short attempt to rule the earth through his beast and false prophet during the tribulation is the Lord Himself

This is not a total removal of the Lord's involvement in the process, but a retraction of His presence .... until He is ready to take Satan's objectives apart

In addition, the unfulfilled scriptures indicate that the little horn of Daniel's visions at the time of the end will be a Muslim Caliph

Many scriptures give the accounting of the Middle Eastern nations surrounding Israel today 

Edited May 24, 2017 by Daniel 11:36

[iamlamad]

15 hours ago, Diaste said:

Wow. Condemning all others to death that are not part of your twisted ideology.  And your last two sentences are intolerably arrogant. You claim to know the ultimate destiny of all those who do not take place in a supposed pretrib gathering of the elect. This is tantamount to believing you have all knowledge about the life and death of millions that suffer persecution at the hands of a future tyrant. What do you say to the millions of believers around the world today that suffer persecution and death in the name of Jesus? No rapture has occurred for those people, Have they been overcome by the beast and died forever in the wrath of God?

Another low point is in assuming that only your group is worthy "to escape all these things" and the rest are a bunch of unworthy masochists that would rather suffer and die. Well, I don't 'want' to go through the coming calamity, but I'm certainly going to trust the Lord God in any case. Since it's a clear fact that millions suffer persecution today in the name of Jesus I will never expect to partake in less now, or in the future.

You have missed it entirely. I did not write that verse; Luke did. If you or anyone else wishes to ignore this verse, that is up to each individual. They can believe it or not believe it; obey it or ignore it.

Was God "arrogant" when He caused both Daniel and John to write that the saints would be overcome? What is it? Do you just not believe it? 

There will only be ONE RAPTURE, and it will not be timed so one individual might miss losing their head. God has never and probably will never rapture one individual to prevent their becoming a martyr. He has not in the past. Why would you think He would today or in the future?  The truth though, is that there WILL BE a rapture and those ready (do I dare say those who believe Luke and prayed to be counted worthy to escape?) will be caught up.  They will escape what the man of sin turned Antichrist will do.

 

ANYONE can become ready for His coming for His church. It still baffles me why people insist on staying around.

[Diaste]

11 hours ago, iamlamad said:

You have missed it entirely. I did not write that verse; Luke did. If you or anyone else wishes to ignore this verse, that is up to each individual. They can believe it or not believe it; obey it or ignore it.

Was God "arrogant" when He caused both Daniel and John to write that the saints would be overcome? What is it? Do you just not believe it? 

I fully believe it. But I don't separate the saints into two groups as pretrib does. Pretrib demands that a certain group of saints is without sin and worthy to be raptured, while the rest of the 'saints' are unholy sinners who deserve the fire persecution. It's arrogant to position the self as better or more deserving than others of the same group.

There will only be ONE RAPTURE, and it will not be timed so one individual might miss losing their head. God has never and probably will never rapture one individual to prevent their becoming a martyr. He has not in the past. Why would you think He would today or in the future?  The truth though, is that there WILL BE a rapture and those ready (do I dare say those who believe Luke and prayed to be counted worthy to escape?) will be caught up.  They will escape what the man of sin turned Antichrist will do.

An interesting rationale. Since such an event has never occurred there is is no precedent on which to lean for your conclusion. From the historic record of the bible we see that only those that walked with God, the individuals Enoch and Elijah, were taken off the earth before dying a physical death, but never such a large group as will only occur once, at the 2nd coming. And we also see that God's people suffered persecution at the hand of man many times, for disobedience. God did not allow His people to suffer God's wrath however, Noah, Israel in Egypt. Notably the Jews in Egypt suffered persecution right before God poured out His wrath on the Egyptians. The same thing will occur at the end of the age. We will enter that time and be saved from wrath, not persecution.

ANYONE can become ready for His coming for His church. It still baffles me why people insist on staying around.

No one insists on this. In fact it would be preferable to avoid the terrible beast of the end of the age. We just understand there is no early escape as it cannot be  found in the book of truth.

What do you say to the millions of believers around the world today that suffer persecution and death in the name of Jesus? No rapture has occurred for those people. What about them? Do you deem them 'unworthy'?

Acts 5:41

So they went on their way from the presence of the Council, rejoicing that they had been considered worthy to suffer shame for His name.

Romans 8:17

and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

Matthew 5:11

"Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me.

2 Corinthians 4:11

For we who live are constantly being delivered over to death for Jesus' sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh.

2 Corinthians 12:10

Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ's sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong.

Philippians 1:29

For to you it has been granted for Christ's sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,

 

 

[Diaste]

On 5/24/2017 at 8:06 AM, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

Turkey isnt that far north of Israel. 

I'm not saying it is, just pointing out that scriptural focus is on Mesopotamia in the region of Babylon. The beast rises from that area. Where ISIS arose. 

[Diaste]

19 hours ago, HAZARD said:

I think you should not copy and paste. But you should go check all these reference you post cause I don't think you have read one of them.

It helps to get all that is written about this event.

The Rapture is a distinct coming in itself, not to the Earth, but in the air where Christ meets the saints and then takes them back to Heaven to present them blameless before God the Father, John 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:16, 17.

The Rapture takes place several years before the literal advent of Christ to the Earth, for they, the saints come back with Him at that time. The saints are in Heaven before God, and not in the air, from the time of the Rapture to their coming again with Christ to reign as kings and priests, Jude 14; Rev. 19:14; Zech. 14:5.

At the Rapture, the Lord comes from Heaven as far as the air, or Earthly Heavens and the saints will be caught up to meet Him in the air.

At the second coming, the saints are not raptured, and neither is Christ, but both will come back to the Earth together. The rapture takes place before the Tribulation, whereas the second Advent takes place after the Tribulation. The Rapture could occur at any time, whereas the second Advent cannot occur until after the tribulation.

The bible clearly states that the hinderer of lawlessness must be removed before the Antichrist is revealed,  2 Thess. 2:7-8, For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. V. 8, And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

"There are only there things in the world today that hinder lawlessness. They are the church, the Holy Spirit and human governments."

False. As you can see lawlessness is rampant in the world today. It is not hindered in any way and is getting worse. 2 Thess 2:7-8 refers to the 'holding back' of the revealing of the beast, the man sin, the Antichrist. The mystery of iniquity is likely the origins of sin based in the rebellious acts of Satan, not some abstraction of 'law'.

The hinderer that will be taken out of the world must refer to one of these three things. It could not refer to the Holy Spirit and governments for neither will be taken out of the world. It is clear that governments will not be taken for the Antichrist will reign over the ten kingdoms during the tribulation (Dan. 7:23-24; Rev. 17:8-17). The Holy Spirit will be here during the tribulation, so He could not be the hinderer taken (Acts. 2:16-21; John 14:16; Rev. 7:14; 12:17; 19:10; Zech. 12:10).

The Church will be taken out of the world,  (1 Thess. 4:16; Eph. 5:26-27; 1 Cor. 15:51-58), so this must be the hinderer referred to

If you cannot understand how the church could be referred to as "he," see Eph. 2:15

Eph 2

 ¹⁵ by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 

; 4:13 where the church is called a "man."

Eph 4

¹³ until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

The word 'man' is not used in either verse and the idea of the church is not present either, imo. Eph 2:15 is about reconciling Jew and Gentile and making peace, and Eph 4:13 is about the maturity of the individual believer.

There is no pretrib rapture as events will soon prove. It is becoming increasingly likely we will all see a man with a deadly head wound come back to life.  The 'deadly head wound that is healed', a beheading in my opinion, will be the act of the opening of the first seal. We will all see this occur through social media. We will then know there are 3.5 years to the A of D when the beast ascends to self proclaimed godhood. 

Consider this: ISIS is the best fit for the Iron Kingdom. As it stands I can link Islamists to prophecy being fulfilled today, but that's for another time. Saudi Arabia is going to set up an anti-terror center in Riyadh. The US, along with the Saudis and other Arab nations, are going to pool resources to fight and defeat ISIS. We will all see this play out on the news and on social media. The captured leaders of ISIS will then be brought to trial in Riyadh. Again, we will all see this. Obviously they will be convicted and likely sentenced to death. The Saudis love their public executions and this case will be no different. An execution the whole world will witness through the power of the internet. One of the condemned will rise again after a short time; in the power of Satan; and he will be the beast. This will be another parallel between the true Messiah and the Antichrist. The times are changing and we are ever closer to the beginning of the end of the age of man and the return of the King.

 

[Daniel 11:36]

"I'm not saying it is, just pointing out that scriptural focus is on Mesopotamia in the region of Babylon. The beast rises from that area. Where ISIS arose."

 

You are correct .... the rising will be in the northern vestiges of Iraq

The ancient land of Magog [northwestern Iraq] [Ezekiel 38]

Edited May 25, 2017 by Daniel 11:36