Could the antichrist be a Muslim

[Revelation Man]

2 hours ago, fixerupper said:

The harlot 'sits upon' a beast with 7 heads abd 10 horns, that's hardly global.

WRONG...The Harlot Rides the Seven Headed Beast signifying she is co-mingled with all the Governments of mankind throughout the Ages. She sits on MANY WATERS which are explained by the Angel later on.....Rev. 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. { The Seven Headed Beast she rides on is NOT her Location, its who she has been co=mingled with, her location is ALL OVER THE WORLD, because False Religion is World Wide. }

2 hours ago, fixerupper said:

 The words "sit upon" mean to occupy.

No, it shows False Region is in League with False Governance. 

2 hours ago, fixerupper said:

So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

Look at the word wilderness...
solitary, lonely, desolate, uninhabited
used of places
a desert, wilderness
deserted places, lonely regions
an uncultivated region fit for pasturage

It means Wilderness..............Islam has nothing to do with the Anti-Christ.................You refuse to say does the Harlot get killed off in Rev. 17:16 or NOT? Why do you keep dodging? 

2 hours ago, fixerupper said:

And how will a false religion of 1.7 billion people be destroyed by fire?  Any answers?

How does the Anti-Christ murder 2 Billion people? Its rather easy with today's NSA SPY apparatus. Drones, smart bombs...Don't kid yourself. 

[Revelation Man]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

I get WHY they are called BEASTS. The problem arises when people believe the criteria for identifying the country or ruler is, "they conquered, enslaved or ruled Israel." That criteria is not written, it's surmised, made up; and it does not appear in the scripture as an identifying characteristic of the beasts in Daniel 4 and Rev 17. That means, "they conquered, enslaved or ruled Israel."  cannot be used as a marker to identify the beasts.

On 6/21/2017 at 7:31 PM, Diaste said:

Who Dreamed the Dream ? Daniel a Jewish Prophet. Everything in the bible, especially around the Old Testament revolves around Israel, all the prophesies etc. etc. You saying they don't have anything to do with Israel is just mind boggling to me I'm sorry, I don't even get the disconnect. The Criteria is a fast fact. I don't even get anyone who doesn't understand the Bible is about Israel. The number one rile of all Prophecy is the bible is all about Israel. Paul's ministry was unto the Gentiles as per the Church. Everything else is about Israel 24/7/365 or 360 by their calendar. The Beasts angle is not in doubt. It just isn't. 

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

The 'facts' will never change "In Your Opinion." Great. The Jewish Tax was imposed only after the destruction of the Temple. According to you, Israel ceased to exist at this point. Dispersed to all nations. How then did the Romans collect the tax if there was no Israel? Remember, you say the several countries ruled Israel only when The Jews were IN Israel. The Roman rule of Israel then ended in 70 AD by your reckoning, but you just stated the tax was forced for 100's of years. And you are not being honest about the Tax. The Tax only came to be after the Jews revolted against Roman rule. The Temple was destroyed because of the rebellion of the Jews. You seem to think the Jews were innocent victims that were sorely persecuted by the evil Roman Empire. That is not the case. In fact the tax was equal to the money Jews already paid for the upkeep of the Temple, the revenue just went to the new temple,  Temple of Capitoline Jupiter, and was not a life sucking tax imposed on innocent children. Also according to your logic, if a country forced the Jews to pay taxes that country then ruled over the Jews. In that case you can add Russia, Moldova, Hungary, Galicia and Poland to the list of beast kingdoms.

It ended about that time, but a clan hung around and retook Israel for a couple of years and was finally defeated for good around 125 AD or so. Rome ruled Israel much longer than the 70 years they were in Babylon, so whats your point? 20 years, 70 years or 150 years its still a country  that's been conquered. Either a country has SELF RULE or they are Ruled by someone else, this is not really debatable, Rome was the Fourth Beast. All the Trivial trivialities is not worth the time that's being wasted on it, when you have to stretch credulity to try and prove a point maybe you should just give up on the point in which basically no one else in Christendom agrees with you, Rome IS the Fourth Beast, and its not going to change.

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

There is no thought process that follows the written word. I proved that the 7 and the 8th king are just that, individual kings and not kingdoms. All 8 are single kings and never kingdoms. No reduction is needed as Rev 17:10 always referred to kings and not kingdoms. Ever. Simply making a statement, " Reducing the Kingdoms to KINGS," and then following it up with the explanation, "so everyone would know the LAST BEAST is not going to bE like Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome" is not proof nor a valid conclusion. We all are aware the last beast is a man, an individual. Not a secret. But he will have a great company of supporters and be the leader. So he is a King, ruling a kingdom.

On 6/21/2017 at 7:31 PM, Diaste said:

No you haven't, because its clear to all that understand prophesy the 8th King is Apollyon, but he has no Earthly Kingdom, he is just over the Seven Kingdoms. The Seven Kings are the Seven Heads of the Beast, it literally astonishes me that people can't actually read the Angels own words in 17:7 where he tells us he is going to Explain the Mystery of the Woman (Harlot) and the Seven Headed Beast she rides on.........Then he explains from verse 8-18. And people don't get who the Seven Kings are, even though the Angel tells us they are the Seven Headed Beast. Who do people miss it?  I don't get it. 

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

How did they become Kings? Where did the angel say the heads were kingdoms? Are you just assuming they are Kingdoms? The angel did not identify the heads as kingdoms so where are you getting it from

You need to go study it in depth, the ANGEL tells you they were Seven Kingdoms, because a Beast is a Kingdom see Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome. So the 7 Headed Beast is Seven Kingdoms. Then the ANGEL says I will explain (TELL THEE THE MYSTERY) the Woman and the Beast.....Drop all your thoughts brother.....From verse 8 to 18 is ALL ABOUT the Angel explaining unto us who the Harlot and the Seven Headed Beast she rides is. Let me break it down all the way, I do't like posting scriptures but....

Revelation 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore(WHY) didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. { Thus verses 8-18 is the Angel Explaining what? The Harlot and the Seven Headed Beast. }

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. { This is about Apollyon, it tells you he has by this point, 90-95 AD been placed in the Bottomless pit. He will be released at the End Times Rev. 9 he is the King of the Bottomless pit. }

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. { The SEVEN HEADS of the Beast are Seven RULERS (OROS-One who arises) on who the Woman sits....AM I RIGHT? Are they Rulers or STUPID MOUNTAINS? Lets look at this carefully....WHATS THE NEXT VERSE SAY? And they are ALSO SEVEN KINGS.....That is the proper translation, they are ALSO SEVEN KINGS. So it says the SEVEN Heads are Seven Rulers who arose (MOUNTAINS) and they are also Seven Kings. So before the mention of MOUNTAINS we see that the Seven Headed Beast was spoke of and in the very next verse Seven Kings are spoken of. REMEMBER The Angel is Explaining to us who the Seven Headed Beast is. He needs to tell us the Last Beast is a MAN so he reduces the Seven Headed Beast KINGDOMS (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia and Greece to FIVE KINGS who had Fallen) then the Angel states that ONE IS and we know that was ROME, and one is YET TO COME (Anti-Christ). }

The Angel just explained what the Seven Headed Beast was, that was HIS MISSION (See verse 7). 

10 And there are(And they are ALSO) seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. { When the Anti-Christ comes he serves but a short time, we know the Anti-Christ will rule a while, then when he Conquers Israel he becomes a BEAST for 42 Months. }

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. { This is Apollyon, he is like the Demonic General set over all of these Nations that tried to destroy Israel, thus his name is the "DESTROYER" and he is now locked on the pit because Israel was not a Nation for 2000 years and he will be released soon. Rev. 9 Thus he WAS is not but YET IS, because he will be released and try to Destroy Israel once again, one final time. }

12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. { The 10 Horns are the 10 European Kings that also arise out of the Fourth Beast, they rule ONE HOUR with the Beast, not 2000 years like the Anti-Catholic guys love to say. }

13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.  14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. { So these Kings are in League with Anti-Christ, and thus they will DIE WITH HIM...Amen. }

15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. { Now the ANGEL CHANGES COURSE, he now explains the Woman (Harlot).....The Waters she sat on in verse ONE (1) was Peoples/Multitudes/Nations and Tongues, she is WORLD WIDE !! She is All False Religion. }

16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. { So the TEN KINGS in league with the Beast HATE THE HARLOT.....but why? Because of course the Anti-Christ wants to be Worshiped as GOD !! He has no place for other Religions. He will destroy the all, the evidence is in Rev. 12:17, he chases the Woman (Israel) into the Wilderness and he murders the Christian Remnant (Church has been Raptured) so the Anti-Christ is going to Destroy ALL RELIGIONS.........After all verse in verse 1 the Angel tells John to come see the JUDGMENT of the HARLOT. }

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. { The Harlot is Judged, but that happens during the Tribulation, OF COURSE, so John is reminded in verse 18 BELOW, of What he saw. Which was Babylon imprinted/tattooed on her head. }

18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth. { The Woman had Babylon imprinted on her forehead, the Angel wanted John to remember that, she is a Harlot and she was CO-MINGLED with the Kings of the Earth (Babylon) and thus that is what the Angel wanted John to REMEMBER.........The Harlot (False Religion) has been interspersed with these FALSE GOVERNMENTS (Babylon) since the very beginning. }

It was all explained to us, and it was about the Seven Headed Beast and the Woman (Harlot) that rode his back. 

 

[Revelation Man]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

What are you talking about? Basileus is the Greek word for 'king' taken from the original Greek text.

Well then use the word KING....I Don't speak Greek. That might cut down the confusion. NO that's why you should place GREEK WORD or HEBREW WORD in front of them before posting them like I do, else I see it as jibberish. 

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

Deep truths, eh? Like Jones, Koresh, Jeffs and thier ilk? Special knowledge no one else has access to? 

Remember, you are the one with the beliefs out of line with Christendom, not me. If you don't understand that TRUE CHRISTIANS have the Holy Spirit that on you brother. 

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

No. The little horn is the eighth beast. 

No the 8th Beast is a Demon Spirit. It tells you that if you read Rev. 9, rev. 11 and Rev. 17. 

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

And if Rome is the fourth beast as you say, Then Rome must also be the Iron kingdom as the four beasts in Dan 7 are parallel to the kingdoms of the Dan 2 statue. They are simply described using other characteristics of the kingdoms and rulers.  And it is your understanding that Rome is the fourth beast, the beast that roams the earth and treads it down. The fourth beast is the end of the age scourge, that you call Rome.

Dan 7" 

‘The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it.²⁴ The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. ²⁵ He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time."

WRONG....The Fourth Beast and the LITTLE HORN are 2 Different BEASTS separated by 2000 years. And I EXPLAINED WHY ALL THE EARTH is a bogus theory. But you just DODGED MU ANSWER so I will repost it.

So when it was used and Nebuchadnezzar was said to have CONQUERED THE WHOLE EARTH.........Did he? No he couldn't have. I have done an in depth word study on the words ARA and KOL..........Lets see if my understanding PREVAILS.

Daniel 4:1 Nebuchadnezzar the king, unto all people, nations, and languages, that dwell in all the earth; Peace be multiplied unto you. { ITS NOT ALL THE EARTH........KOL was used here, it cant really mean ALL THE EARTH can it?  ARA was used for Earth and it means the WHOLE GROUND SPOKEN OF........1) earth, world, ground........So Kol is used here and it means ALL THE GROUND BEING SPOKEN ABOUT........Doesn't that FIT? It sure doesn't mean the WHOLE EARTH !!! Nebuchadnezzar was a mighty ruler, but he Never sailed to the Americas. YOU SEE WHY YOU HAVE TO USE CONTEXT? } 

Daniel 4:11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth: { AGAIN, this can not mean ALL THE EARTH........Even though KOL is used here. NOW CAN IT? }

Dan. 4:20 The tree that thou sawest, which grew, and was strong, whose height reached unto the heaven, and the sight thereof to all the earth;  { SAME HERE........KOL.....Can't mean ALL THE EARTH because no one had discovered the Americas !!! }

Daniel 6:25 Then king Darius wrote unto all people, nations, and languages, that dwell in all the earth; Peace be multiplied unto you. {{ Again KOL is used and ARA for earth. it can't mean ALL THE EARTH CAN IT? ..............LOGIC........... }} 

Now it becomes CLEAR why Rome did not have to DEVOUR the WHOLE EARTH and thus it Couldn't be Rome according to many,  all because they haven't put their homework in. So YES Rome could be the Fourth Beast because the WHOLE EARTH doesn't really mean the WHOLE EARTH does it?  It means ALL THE EARTH SPOKEN OF !!

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, (ROME) and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. { It is Rome, because it doesn't really mean the WHOLE EARTH !!! }

Daniel 8:5 And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes. { Did Alexander the Great Conquer the WHOLE EARTH? NO Of course not. I told you it did not mean the WHOLE EARTH and I told you I had researched it in depth. Now I give you a demonstration. It takes a lot of homework, I don't just say things for no reason brother. } 

So KOL and ARA together do not always mean the WHOLE EARTH, they really mean ALL THE EARTH BEING SPOKEN OF.

 

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

22 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Which is why you are off, I suppose.

 

Sorry...its getting way too hard to search for your words interspersed with MY OWN WORDS, I have bad eyesight and its just too difficult. 

[fixerupper]

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WRONG...The Harlot Rides the Seven Headed Beast signifying she is co-mingled with all the Governments of mankind throughout the Ages. 

The harlot is "co-mingled" with the 7 heads?  

She is the "Mother of Harlot's" and  'sits upon' or occupies the beast, and sit's upon or occupies 'many waters'.  This means ISLAM, Babylon the Great, a large global false religion is the dominate religion of the 7 headed 10 horned beast. Since the 'harlot is also a city...

And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 

And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

These seven mountains are the seven that surround East Jerusalem with Mount Moriah being at their geographical center.  It's the location Muslim's want to make as the Capital headquarters of their worldwide Islamic Caliphate.  7 heads and 10 horns in no way represents ALL the Governments of mankind throughout the Ages.  The text debunks that idea.  This BEAST with seven heads and ten horns IS NOT symbolic of a progression of ancient world empires. That's what people have been taught for decades if not centuries and I don't believe it!  Why would John prophesy about a 'future' 7 headed 10 horned beast, that has 6 heads that rose several thousands of years earlier!  A simple look at the text in the lexicons and interlinear helps us understand this.  Not one element in the description of this beast comes from the past.

And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

Some translations say, "five have fallen" which is incorrect.

FIVE ARE FALLEN....is also a goof up.  ARE is present, fallen is past!  The interlinear words it like this....

....and kings seven they-are the five fall and the one is....In other words....

THEY ARE SEVEN KINGS, FIVE FALL AND one IS.

The word ARE is a third person plural present indicative. This passage isn't a reflection of PAST world empires. It is a picture of end-time kingdoms and a complete end-time entity. There are seven kings, "FIVE FALL" is the correct translation. That's how it's worded in the interlinear. Just like the four beast Daniel prophesy's about in Daniel 7, these kings are all present on earth at the same time.
This is how it looks in the interlinear...

...AND KINGS SEVEN ARE THE FIVE FALL AND THE ONE IS THE other NOT- as- yet CAME AND when-EVER he-MAY-BE-COMING FEW(briefly) him it-IS BINDING TO-REMAIN...

The kingdoms of Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece had fallen by John's time. Using them in a vision depicting an end-time kingdom makes no sense. For John to have a vision that prophesy's about an end-time beast, only to have some of the elements of the beast be several thousands of years old, actually makes him a false prophet since a prophet cannot prophesy about kings (kingdoms not explicitly implied) that have already passed. The words ARE and FALL (not fallen or have fallen) indicates they are all end-time KINGS!

These kings are all on the earth at the same time. This picture of a harlot sitting upon a 10 horned 7 headed beast is a complete end-time entity and the religion that occupies this beast is ISLAM, Babylon the Great, "A LARGE FALSE RELIGION," AKA Islam, and its jihadist sects who fill the harlot's cup full of the abominations of the earth. 

How can these be past ANCIENT kingdoms when they, "have received no kingdom as yet, receive power as kings one hour with the beast."  How can they, "have one mind," and how can they, "shall give their power and strength unto the beast," AND HOW CAN THEY, "shall make war with the Lamb," ...IF SIX OF THEM EXISTED THOUSANDS OF YEARS IN THE PAST!  What a crazy interpretation todays prophecy experts have come up with that has misled millions of Christians.

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She sits on MANY WATERS which are explained by the Angel later on.....Rev. 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. { The Seven Headed Beast she rides on is NOT her Location, its who she has been co=mingled with, her location is ALL OVER THE WORLD, because False Religion is World Wide. }

"And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues."

All that verse is saying is that Islam, and all of her jihadist sects that fill the harlots cup, is a worldwide global religion.  Maybe you don't know that in Islam, your religion is your politics and your politics IS your religion.  There's NOT one verse of prophecy that implies a global unification of the world's religions or governments.  Islam is the only religion capable of fulfilling the evils mentioned in bible prophecy.

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No, it shows False Region is in League with False Governance. 

A false religion is implied, but a unification of ALL the world's religions IS NOT!  What in the world makes anyone thing that all of the world's governments and religions would unite?  Do you really thing that world governments and religions would just relinquish their governing and religious authority ob\ver to one or two men?  You believe that because of "your mentors!"

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It means Wilderness..............Islam has nothing to do with the Anti-Christ.................You refuse to say does the Harlot get killed off in Rev. 17:16 or NOT? Why do you keep dodging? 

Wildernesss...

The word wilderness is translated DESERT 13 times.  It is used to describe the desert of Judah about 5 times, and the desert of Arabia about 8 times

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How does the Anti-Christ murder 2 Billion people? Its rather easy with today's NSA SPY apparatus. Drones, smart bombs...Don't kid yourself.

Dozens of countries can't even take out ISIS or ASSAD, and you're yelling me not to kid myself that ONE man can take out the 1.7 billion followers of the world's most evil religion.

Edited June 23, 2017 by fixerupper

[fixerupper]

REVELATION MAN SAID,

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You need to go study it in depth, the ANGEL tells you they were Seven Kingdoms, because a Beast is a Kingdom see Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome.

Here you're telling Diaste that he needs to study this in more depth, and here you are adding Daniel 2 to the mix.  Kingdoms ARE NOT specificcally implied in Revelation 17.  KINGS ARE, and those kings who "have no kingdom as yet, receive power as kings one hour with the beast, have one mind, give their power and strength unto the beast, make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb overcomes them.....ARE NOT PAST EMPIRES!  They are all present on earth at the same time!

Quote

Remember, you are the one with the beliefs out of line with Christendom, not me. If you don't understand that TRUE CHRISTIANS have the Holy Spirit that on you brother. 

Here we go with the "I have the Holy Spirit" and that's why I'm right!  And to question the man having the Holy Spirit as a true Christian just because he disagrees with you???  

Edited June 23, 2017 by fixerupper

[TheMatrixHasU71]

On 6/21/2017 at 4:27 PM, BobRyan said:

I think everyone probably agrees that the term "antichrist" only occurs in the Bible - in the books of  1John  and 2John. Right?

So then are these texts the focus of this thread - or is this thread simply "all over the map" with guesswork on the topic?

I have not read all the posts on it - but they appear to be guessing in almost every location but 1 John and 2 John. Is that right?

Your response was rude. And it is not guesswork it is FACT. Even though the word a/c is not really mentioned as applies to a particular person,  (whoops someone corrected me on that it is mentioned once ) the person is still mentioned in many places in the bible. He can be described in different ways not just with one word. 

 

Just like "Trinity" and "Rapture"

Edited June 24, 2017 by TheMatrixHasU71

[fixerupper]

1 hour ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

Your response was rude. And it is not guesswork it is FACT. Even though the word a/c is not really mentioned as applies to a particular person, the person is still mentioned in many places in the bible. He can be described in different ways not just with one word. 

 

Just like "Trinity" and "Rapture"

Actually the word ANTICHRIST is used and applied to a particular person.  The KJV has let us down on this one...

1 John 2:18  Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

The NIV and several other Versions translate it like this...

Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come.

Anti-Christ IS the denial of Christ and a damnable heresy.  Some people think 'antichrist' always indicates a plurality of person's, some even saying that it's a 'spirit,' and that there's no such thing as one man emerging in the last days.  

People think the end-time 'anti-Christ' is never called "the anti-Christ" in scripture but that's not true.  The NIV has it right.

The verse actually reads like this in the Greek interlinear...

Little boys and girls, it is the last hour and according as ye hear that THE "instead-anointed" (antichrist) is coming and now many instead anointeds have become.....

The end-time anti-Christ is likely the same person as the Islamic dajjal, AKA, ISLAM'S man of sin.  The Madhi is likely the false prophet.  The Muslim jesus is just that, a false christ returning in Islam as they expect him to return anyway as the Madhi's subordinate.  ISIS even believing jesus will return to help them defeat the dajjal!

Over a dozen bible translations use the word 'the' in the translation of 1 John 2:18 like the NIV does.  Another thing to note is that the first word for anti-Christ in 1 John 2:18 is singular, the second is in the plural.

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/1jo2.pdf

Edited June 23, 2017 by fixerupper

[Revelation Man]

9 hours ago, fixerupper said:

These seven mountains are the seven that surround East Jerusalem with Mount Moriah being at their geographical center.  It's the location Muslim's want to make as the Capital headquarters of their worldwide Islamic Caliphate.  7 heads and 10 horns in no way represents ALL the Governments of mankind throughout the Ages.  The text debunks that idea.  This BEAST with seven heads and ten horns IS NOT symbolic of a progression of ancient world empires. That's what people have been taught for decades if not centuries and I don't believe it!  Why would John prophesy about a 'future' 7 headed 10 horned beast, that has 6 heads that rose several thousands of years earlier!  A simple look at the text in the lexicons and interlinear helps us understand this.  Not one element in the description of this beast comes from the past.

You should just give it up. All people are not called to prophecy. You trying to say its about the Seven Mountains when I just explained to Diaste that if you LOOK REAL CLOSE you can see its the Angel explaining what the Seven Headed Beast is to John. He says the Seven Headed Beast  IS.....? The Seven Kingdoms are Seven (GREEK WORD OROS) Rulers who Arise above the plain NOT MOUNTAINS........How do we know this? Whats the very next verse say sir? THEY ARE ALSO SEVEN KINGS !!! 

So they were a Seven Headed Beast (Kingdoms like Babylon/Persia/Greece/Rome) and the the Angel says they are Seven Rulers who Arise above the plains. But the word OROS is used, the English translated it as Mountains....so the very Next verse should be speaking about these "MOUNTAINS" right?  But instead it speaks about Seven Kings, Five have Fallen, ONE IS and one is YET TO COME...........please explain how you think Mountains fit in that passage? The GREEK WORD OROS Means one that Arises above the plains A RULER THAT ARISES !! The Angel is trying to explain what? The Woman (Harlot) and the Seven Headed Beast. Not MOUNTAINS. 

You are crossing up the Facts, I stated that the STATUE Represents all the Governments of the World. The Seven Heads represents the Governments that came against/Conquered Israel. 

Its real easy to understand why he would prophesy about the beast with Seven Heads. Revelation is ENCODED with the Old Testament. By placing the Seven Heads in Rev. 13 and saying the Lion, Leopard and Bear was a part of the Seven Headed Beast that gives us our CLUE......Our Code to solve the riddle with. We now understand this LAST BEAST will be a Beast over Israel, and that can be said without mentioning Israel, because Rome had already destroyed Israel and did not want to hear that God was protecting them etc. etc. The Seven Headed Beast tells the whole story of Satan trying to Destroy Israel throughout their history. 

9 hours ago, fixerupper said:

Some translations say, "five have fallen" which is incorrect.

FIVE ARE FALLEN....is also a goof up.  ARE is present, fallen is past!  The interlinear words it like this....

....and kings seven they-are the five fall and the one is....In other words....

THEY ARE SEVEN KINGS, FIVE FALL AND one IS.

The word ARE is a third person plural present indicative. This passage isn't a reflection of PAST world empires. It is a picture of end-time kingdoms and a complete end-time entity. There are seven kings, "FIVE FALL" is the correct translation. That's how it's worded in the interlinear. Just like the four beast Daniel prophesy's about in Daniel 7, these kings are all present on earth at the same time.
This is how it looks in the interlinear...

...AND KINGS SEVEN ARE THE FIVE FALL AND THE ONE IS THE other NOT- as- yet CAME AND when-EVER he-MAY-BE-COMING FEW(briefly) him it-IS BINDING TO-REMAIN...

The kingdoms of Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece had fallen by John's time. Using them in a vision depicting an end-time kingdom makes no sense. For John to have a vision that prophesy's about of an end-time beast, only to have some of the elements of the beast be several thousands of years old, actually makes him a false prophet since a prophet cannot prophesy about kings (kingdoms not explicitly implied) that have already passed. The words ARE and FALL (not fallen or have fallen) indicates they are all end-time KINGS!

These kings are all on the earth at the same time. This picture of a harlot sitting upon a 10 horned 7 headed beast is a complete end-time entity and the religion that occupies this beast is ISLAM, Babylon the Great, "A LARGE FALSE RELIGION," AKA Islam, and its jihadist sects who fill the harlot's cup full of the abominations of the earth. 

How can these be past ANCIENT kingdoms when they, "have received no kingdom as yet, receive power as kings one hour with the beast."  How can they, "have one mind," and how can they, "shall give their power and strength unto the beast," AND HOW CAN THEY, "shall make war with the Lamb," ...IF SIX OF THEM EXISTED THOUSANDS OF YEARS IN THE PAST!  What a crazy interpretation todays prophecy experts have come up with that has misled millions of Christians.

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You can save all that wordsmith stuff for others, I study the Hebrew roots and the Greek roots and I know exactly whats it says, FIVE HAVE(Use any word you like) FALLEN  (FIVE KINGS HAVE FALLEN).....ONE IS.....and one is YET TO COME. Its self evident.

The Beasts are not on the Earth at the same time. Islam is NOTHING. You will get that one day, one way or another. 

9 hours ago, fixerupper said:

"And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues."

All that verse is saying is that Islam, and all of her jihadist sects that fill the harlots cup, is a worldwide global religion.  Maybe you don't know that in Islam, your religion is your politics and your politics IS your religion.  There's NOT one verse of prophecy that implies a global unification of the world's religions or governments.  Islam is the only religion capable of fulfilling the evils mentioned in bible prophecy.

 Everything is Islam to you. But its not really going to go down that way. Islam is not WORLDWIDE.....Islam could not have the Blood of all the Saints and Christian Martyrs on her hands. Heres the deal, you picked out the facts you believed through somebodies preaching or teachings, and you are trying to fit all scriptures to it. That's not the way prophecy works brother. Read the Scriptures and follow the facts. I used to make the same error.

9 hours ago, fixerupper said:

A false religion is implied, but a unification of ALL the world's religions IS NOT!  What in the world makes anyone thing that all of the world's governments and religions would unite?  Do you really thing that world governments and religions would just relinquish their governing and religious authority ob\ver to one or two men?  You believe that because of "your mentors!"

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No one said that a WORLDWIDE Unification of Religions would happen, you seem to quote me about beliefs I don't believe, because, IMHO, you have a set narrative you aren't looking at the facts. I stated the Anti-Christ DESTROYS the worlds Religions.

9 hours ago, fixerupper said:

Wildernesss...

The word wilderness is translated DESERT 13 times.  It is used to describe the desert of Judah about 5 times, and the desert of Arabia about 8 times

Its a VISION...........

9 hours ago, fixerupper said:

Dozens of countries can't even take out ISIS or ASSAD, and you're yelling me not to kid myself that ONE man can take out the 1.7 billion followers of the world's most evil religion.

The United States could wipe out every Muslim country in about a Month with a NO HOLDS BARRED type of attitude, which the Anti-Christ will have.. You forget, the Anti-Christ will not play NICE like the USA does in war-time. USE LOGIC........Hes going to be ruthless, he will bomb Civilians etc all, they can't use them for a shield against him. The Peace/Security deal forces them to allow this Anti-Christ to be like a NATO unto the Arabs and Israel. 

 

9 hours ago, fixerupper said:

Here you're telling Diaste that he needs to study this in more depth, and here you are adding Daniel 2 to the mix.  Kingdoms ARE NOT specificcally implied in Revelation 17.  KINGS ARE and those kings who "have no kingdom as yet, receive power as kings one hour with the beast, have one mind, give their power and strength unto the beast, make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb overcomes them.....ARE NOT PAST EMPIRES!  They are all present on earth at the same time!

Its the same Seven Headed Beast as Rev. 13 man !! Where the Lion, Bear and Leopard are a PART OF THE SEVEN HEADED BEAST. They are Kingdoms from Daniel 7......Daniel 2 is not the Same thing as per the meaning of the Kingdoms.

The Lion, Bear and Leopard ARE PAST EMPIRES !!

Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

So its FUTURE Empires even though we are told they were the Loin (Babylon) Bear (Persia) and Leopard ( Greece) ? I mean you have to put study and thought into these things, you can't fit a belief to scriptures IT GOES THE OTHER WAY AROUND. 

The Beasts of Daniel 7 are here and SO ARE THE 10 HORNS !! The Little Horn is the Seventh Head of the Beast. 

9 hours ago, fixerupper said:

Here we go with the "I have the Holy Spirit" and that's why I'm right!  And to question the man having the Holy Spirit as a true Christian just because he disagrees with you???  

Deep truths, eh? Like Jones, Koresh, Jeffs and thier ilk? Special knowledge no one else has access to? 

ABOVE WAS THE QUESTION I WAS ASKED by him.........Compared to weirdos...........So I stated a FACT.............I have the Holy Spirit. 

You might want to look at all the facts

Edited June 23, 2017 by Revelation Man

[wingnut-]

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

Islam could not have the Blood of all the Saints and Christian Martyrs on her hands.

 

I agree with this, and here is something Jesus said that sheds some light on the subject.

 

Luke 11:47 Woe to you! For you build the tombs of the prophets whom your fathers killed. 48 So you are witnesses and you consent to the deeds of your fathers, for they killed them, and you build their tombs. 49 Therefore also the Wisdom of God said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and persecute,’ 50 so that the blood of all the prophets, shed from the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation, 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, it will be required of this generation.

 

The answer to this debate is found in whom He was speaking to.

God bless

[fixerupper]

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Its the same Seven Headed Beast as Rev. 13 man !! Where the Lion, Bear and Leopard are a PART OF THE SEVEN HEADED BEAST. They are Kingdoms from Daniel 7......Daniel 2 is not the Same thing. 

The Lion, Bear and Leopard ARE PAST EMPIRES !!

I disagree...

Daniel chapter 7 was written about 35 years after Daniel's vision of the great statue.  

How can the lion be Babylon when the date of the vision occurred in the first year of Belshazzar who was the last king of Babylon?  The Babylonian Empire had already risen some 50 years before and was on it's way out when Daniel 7 was written!  Why would Daniel prophesy about a kingdom 'rising' that was already in existence for about 50 years and soon to end?   Some atheist have actually caught onto this blunder and used it to debunk the bible by calling Daniel a false prophet which he would certainly be, since he prophesied about something already in existence....a kingdom rising that had already risen.

The vision of these four beast are figurative of 4 end time kingdoms competing to dominate the region around the Mediterranean. The word before in 7:7 says that this beast "was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns."

The Hebrew word for "before" in this text is ‘qodam’ which means "in front of, in the presence of, not "historically before" as is commonly interpreted. This means the first three empires will be in the presence of (or stand before) the anti-Christ kingdom when it emerges.  They are all end-time kingdoms.  
 

Edited June 23, 2017 by fixerupper