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A vesture dipped in blood


Retrobyter

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20 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shabbat shalom, everyone.

In the Revelation of Yeshua` the Messiah, we read...

Revelation 19:11-13
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
KJV

I know what the Scriptures say, but I'm just curious. What do you think this statement means? Whose blood is it on His vesture? His own? Someone else's?

 

Jesus is clothed in a robe dipped in blood,not the blood He shed on Calvary's  cross, but the blood of His enemies whom He trampled in the winepress of the wrath of God. He is called by the name , "The Word of God" A word is a means of expressing Himself to man.

Can you agree?

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6 hours ago, inchrist said:

Meanings of words is not going to help you if you dont understand the context. The context is within the wedding theme. Symbolism.

I dont deny Christ ropes is poctured as fully dipped in blood, why wouldnt this be used as an "imagery" of the purity of the bride?

I would find Christ robe dipped in actual enemies blood coming out of His wedding consummation far more grotesque than an "imagery" which is used as symbolism and not literal to illustrate the purity of a virgin to the earth.

After all Christ is not going to actually sleep with every single members that make up this bride. That in itself is actually gross.

Shalom, inchrist.

It's only a "wedding theme" in the imagination of your mind! That is most certainly NOT the meaning of Revelation 19! <Sigh.> Check it out again:

Revelation 19:11-21
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven (in the middle of the sky), Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
KJV

This is the context of WAR and its aftermath! It has NOTHING to do with a "wedding theme!" After all, that "supper of the great God" is certainly NOT a "marriage supper!" Did YOU invite buzzards and vultures to YOUR wedding?

Enough of the symbolism! It's the great distraction to this modern age of "Christianity!" It's time to get your feet back on solid ground!

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6 hours ago, Sister said:

Hi Retro

It's his own blood.

Christ has returned with his old battle clothes on to show the world that it's him whom they killed and did not believe.

But that first battle was spiritual, and he spilt no other man's blood, but his own.

....and this time, he will spill their blood with "his word" as he's prepared for battle again, having all power and great authority to judge the nations and war the armies of Armageddon who have gathered against him.

Shalom, Sister.

I was wondering who would actually broach this argument. I had alluded to it before, but now I must confront it head on.

His death, burial and resurrection was NOT an "old battle," let alone a "first, spiritual battle." It was a SACRIFICE! His only "battle" was with Himself the night before as He prayed for the cup to pass from Him.

Hebrews 9:24-10:18
24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
KJV

No, my Sister, this is NOT Yeshua`s own blood.

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5 hours ago, missmuffet said:

I deny your interpretation.

Shalom, missmuffet.

I totally agree with you.

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4 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Retro,

Yes that is what I am saying. Rev. ch. 14 onwards, is the 4th vision of the Lord. It reveals Him as the Judge, who gives life or condemns to death. So we get the proclamations, the declarations of what is to follow. Then bit by bit we see the outworking of those `words` of judgment.

Hope that explains my thoughts, Marilyn.

Shalom, Marilyn.

Okay, got it. So far, I can agree with you. The only things that makes me uneasy about how you said it are the words "proclamations" and "declarations." They seem a bit ... nebulous, especially in light of the term, "vision." So, I may have to qualify how we agree, but so far we're in agreement.

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4 hours ago, angels4u said:

Jesus is clothed in a robe dipped in blood,not the blood He shed on Calvary's  cross, but the blood of His enemies whom He trampled in the winepress of the wrath of God. He is called by the name , "The Word of God" A word is a means of expressing Himself to man.

Can you agree?

Shalom, angels4u.

Yes; so far, I can agree with you.

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19 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Marilyn.

Okay, got it. So far, I can agree with you. The only things that makes me uneasy about how you said it are the words "proclamations" and "declarations." They seem a bit ... nebulous, especially in light of the term, "vision." So, I may have to qualify how we agree, but so far we're in agreement.

Fair enough, Retro,

So....`Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach ....saying with a loud voice, "fear God & give glory to Him, for the hour (time) of His judgment has come,..`` (Rev. 14: 6 & 7)

`And another angel followed, saying, "Babylon is fallen, is fallen....` (Rev. 14: 8)

`Then a third angel followed them saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast....` (Rev. 14: 9)

These angels are proclaiming in a loud voice what is to come. They obviously received their `words,` from God, His judgments that he is declaring.

Does that explain what I see, a bit more? Marilyn.

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36 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Sister.

I was wondering who would actually broach this argument. I had alluded to it before, but now I must confront it head on.

His death, burial and resurrection was NOT an "old battle," let alone a "first, spiritual battle." It was a SACRIFICE! His only "battle" was with Himself the night before as He prayed for the cup to pass from Him.

Hebrews 9:24-10:18
24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
KJV

No, my Sister, this is NOT Yeshua`s own blood.

Hi Retro

I just found this scripture;

Isaiah 63:3   I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.

please compare;

 Revelation 19:11   And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

  Revelation 19:12   His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

  Revelation 19:13   And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

  Revelation 19:14   And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

  Revelation 19:15   And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

 

Can you see the difference?

 

He hasn't tread the winepress yet in Rev 19, but he's about to.  How can he come out and have their blood on him before he goes into battle?

That battle he's about to go into into will stain his garments with their blood.

That blood on his vesture before the battle is his own blood.  The blood he shed.  The reason why we believe in him.

Now he's about to stain his vesture with their blood.

Big difference.

Their blood will be "sprinkled" on his garments.

Having blood "sprinkled" on you, compared to being "dipped" in blood are slightly two different things in my opinion.

I see being dipped in blood as going through death yourself, and the sprinkling of blood on your garments means you are the one doing the killing, not the one being killed.

 

I could be wrong, but thanks for bringing up the question.  Will keep looking into it.

 

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13 hours ago, Sister said:

Hi Retro

I just found this scripture;

Isaiah 63:3   I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.

please compare;

 Revelation 19:11   And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

  Revelation 19:12   His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

  Revelation 19:13   And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

  Revelation 19:14   And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

  Revelation 19:15   And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

 

Can you see the difference?

 

He hasn't tread the winepress yet in Rev 19, but he's about to.  How can he come out and have their blood on him before he goes into battle?

That battle he's about to go into into will stain his garments with their blood.

That blood on his vesture before the battle is his own blood.  The blood he shed.  The reason why we believe in him.

Now he's about to stain his vesture with their blood.

Big difference.

Their blood will be "sprinkled" on his garments.

Having blood "sprinkled" on you, compared to being "dipped" in blood are slightly two different things in my opinion.

I see being dipped in blood as going through death yourself, and the sprinkling of blood on your garments means you are the one doing the killing, not the one being killed.

 

I could be wrong, but thanks for bringing up the question.  Will keep looking into it.

Shalom, Sister.

Here are some things I think you may have missed:

First, in Isaiah 63, it's best to read the whole passage. In fact, as a side note, it would be wise for all of us to be sure that what we THINK we are reading is what we are ACTUALLY reading. The prophecy of Yesha`yahuw (Isaiah) is all ONE prophecy! Sometimes, I think we forget that this BOOK is the prophecy. We need to read the whole book several times to be sure of what we are reading, and I would suggest, if one can eke out the time, to read the book in a single setting. I know it's 66 chapters long, but if one is using a version that he or she understands well, one can do it in a couple of hours at the most. We so often zero in on a single chapter or even a single verse that we neglect the rest of the prophecy. We must remember that chapter and verse divisions are ARBITRARY and were added as addressing techniques much after the writing of the book. For instance, don't let a chapter division make you think that the texts of the two chapters are different and disconnected. In the original manuscripts, those chapter divisions weren't there, and the writing flowed from one right into the other. Some chapter and verse divisions made sense. Others make no sense at all!

This is why my posts get so long. One must look at a verse within the context of the whole book for it to make the sense that the author (and the Author) of the book intended! See, now I'm about to do it again, but what I am conveying to you is but a PORTION of the whole, even though it is more than most would include:

Isaiah 61:10-63:9
10 I am so joyful in Adonai!
My soul rejoices in my God,
for he has clothed me in salvation (rescue; deliverance),
dressed me with a robe of triumph,
like a bridegroom wearing a festive turban,
like a bride adorned with her jewels.
11 For just as the earth brings forth its plants,
or a garden makes its plants spring up,
so Adonai, God, will cause victory and glory
to spring up before all nations. 

62:1 For Tziyon’s sake I will not be silent,
for Yerushalayim’s sake I will not rest,
until her vindication shines out brightly
and her salvation (rescue; deliverance) like a blazing torch.
2 The nations will see your vindication
and all kings your glory.
Then you will be called by a new name
which Adonai himself will pronounce.
3 You will be a glorious crown in the hand of Adonai,
a royal diadem held by your God.
4 You will no longer be spoken of as ‘Azuvah [Abandoned]
or your land be spoken of as ‘Sh’mamah [Desolate];
rather, you will be called Heftzi-Vah [My-Delight-Is-In-Her]
and your land Be‘ulah [Married].
For Adonai delights in you,
and your land will be married —  
5 as a young man marries a young woman,
your sons will marry you;
as a bridegroom rejoices over the bride,
your God will rejoice over you. 

6 I have posted watchmen
on your walls, Yerushalayim;
they will never fall silent,
neither by day nor by night.
You who call on Adonai,
give yourselves no rest;
7 and give him no rest till he restores Yerushalayim
and makes it a praise on earth.
8 Adonai has sworn by his right hand
and by his mighty arm:

“Never again will I give your grain
to your enemies as food;
nor will strangers drink your wine,
for which you worked so hard;
9 but those who harvest the grain will eat it
with praises to Adonai;
those who gathered the wine will drink it
in the courtyards of my sanctuary.”
 

10 Go on through, go on through the gates,
clear the way for the people!
Build up a highway, build it up!
Clear away the stones!
Raise a banner for the peoples!
11 Adonai has proclaimed to the end of the earth,

“Say to the daughter of Tziyon,
‘Here, your Salvation (Yish`eekh = your-Yeshua`) is coming!
Here, his reward is with him,
and his recompense is before him.’”

12 They will call them The Holy People,
The Redeemed of Adonai.
You will be called D’rushah [Sought-After],
‘Ir Lo Ne‘ezvah [City-No-Longer-Abandoned]. 

63:1 Who is this, coming from Edom,
from Botzrah with clothing stained crimson (blood-red),
so magnificently dressed,
so stately in his great strength?

“It is I, who speak victoriously,
I, well able to save (rescue; deliver).”
 

2 Why is your apparel red,
your clothes like someone treading a winepress? 

3 “I have trodden the winepress alone;
from the peoples, not one was with me.
So I trod them in my anger,
trampled them in my fury;
so their lifeblood spurted out on my clothing,
and I have stained all my garments;
4 for the day of vengeance that was in my heart
and my year of redemption have come.
5 I looked, but there was no one to help,
and I was appalled that no one upheld me.
Therefore my own arm brought me salvation (rescue; deliverance [for his people]),
and my own fury upheld me.
6 In my anger I trod down the peoples [the enemies of his own people],
made them drunk with my fury,
then poured out their lifeblood on the earth.” 

7 I will recall the grace of Adonai
and the praises of Adonai,
because of all that Adonai has granted us
and his great goodness toward the house of Isra’el,
which he bestowed on them in keeping with his mercy,
in keeping with the greatness of his grace.
8 For he said,
“They are indeed my people,
children who are not disloyal.”

So he became their Savior (Rescuer; Deliverer).
9 In all their troubles he was troubled;
then the Angel (Messenger) of His Presence saved them;
in his love and pity he redeemed them.
CJB

We can zero in on certain subpassages that go together toward a particular subtopic, but bear in mind that the subpassage is only a PART of the whole. Yeshua` is here talking about how, when He first arrived, there was no one to FIGHT along side of Him; so, He took on this first battle ALONE! This first battle was not in the valley of Y'howshafat but in Edowm, specifically in the region of the city Botsrah, which is south of the Dead Sea on the Israeli-Jordanian border, 25 miles SSE of the Dead Sea.

Revelation 19 is after this battle. (Indeed, Isaiah 63:1-9 is also technically after this battle! Notice: "Who is this, coming from Edom,
from Botzrah...." He is already returning from the battle!)

Revelation 19:11-16
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND Lord OF LordS.
KJV

Notice: Here, He has an army following Him that wasn't with Him before. Here, His clothes have ALREADY BEEN DIPPED IN BLOOD! Here, He is about to smite the NATIONS (PLURAL)! After all, who says that He can't stomp the grapes more than once? Different place (Valley of Jehoshafat instead of Edowm), different peoples (kings of the nations instead of Botsrah), different time. It's a different vat of grapes!

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Correct Roy, He is leaving Bozrah headed to Jerusalem

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