Apologetic / Counter Cult Ministry

[JohnD]

I have some insight as to how President Trump must feel at times... like the whole world is against you when all you are trying to do is the right thing or get at the truth.

I was once a counter-cult apologetics minister. Let me qualify that. I was once an active / aggressive counter-cult apologetics minister. The barbs and hack-jobs (with a sword) I got from the enemy I could handle. It's the assault from friendlies (fellow believers) that wore me down.

I used to laugh now I just roll my eyes when I hear a zealous believer carry on about the disciples of Christ and how they would [never] make the blunders those guys did.

Believers cannot be possessed of the devil. Impossible. The Holy Spirit lives in us and he's not accepting roommates. 

But believers can be influenced by the devil, by the devil using their family members and their spouse... certainly their children.

The worst are Christians who are steeped in Church traditions and other traditions of man which they believe are true. And when you show them they are not... you have a religious war on your hands.

I used to buy into the "we can all agree to disagree agreeably" in (lesser) doctrines... til one day it occurred to me that this is another way of saying we agree to ignore untruth and even at times defend untruth as truth alongside actual truth making it (actual truth) seem untrue to unbelievers.

So what's the point?

If Kwik Philly is still interested in what a cult actually is, there are several good apologetics ministries out there. But be warned, they are just as filled with human traditions as the Church is.

I am not saying people or ministries have to be perfect to be credible.

And I am certainly not implying I have all the answers. I make mistakes all the time.

But I listen to the Holy Spirit and I verify with scripture it's him.

And it's amazing what he will show you and teach you when you listen and let him (God) make the decisions and teach the class.

I found my own definition of a cultist spilling over into what most consider "orthodoxy." For what is at the root of cultism and false religion and atheism and humanism is not taking God at his word.

Christians do this all the time. And they pummel other Christians for pointing this out to them.

You want all hell to oppose you? Go into apologetics. You'll catch hell from every side including our side.

 

 

 

[JohnD]

I don't mean to sound bitter or like a defeatist.

I'm just pragmatic now. Like the old man whose experienced enough pain in life to know not to do the stupid stunts of youth any longer.

Take Mary, the mother of Jesus, for example.

Catholics worship her (which I am positive mortifies her). She called God "her savior." For what? Immaculately conceived and a virgin without sin... according to the Vatican. The thing is, surrogacy is the only solution for the virgin birth of the sinless Jesus. Otherwise you end up with an endless chain of immaculate conceptions (that never took place, btw) going back to Eve. The dilemma the Catholics perceive only gets pushed back a generation at a time.

Protestants are not much better. They put creches out on a fake holiday of a small family cold, hungry, staying in a barn and not with relatives (no doubt because her virgin conception was perceived as adultery). Even Joseph did not believe her until the angel appeared to him. Imagine being Mary (who is just as special as the Bible says she is) which is not to be confused with what the Catholics say she is... it's the old Queen of heaven cult teaching reinvented with a Christian label slapped on it. But imagine being Mary and aside from Joseph and Elizabeth and Zachariah, everyone thinks she is carrying an illegitimate child.

Did this have bearing on why they had to room with the animals when the Lord Jesus was born? Relatives from their own family line unwilling to take them in?

Are we like them?

I've heard of people kicking their own children out for (in their case actual...) promiscuity. Or (dare I say it) homosexuality...

A lot of people get up on their high horse and forget from where they came and what they did. And then they blast others (who may not even be guilty of what they perceive of) like Mary.

Imagine having to go on a hard journey to pay taxes in the first place being great with child.

Imagine the stares and the sneers raising the Christ child.

Imagine watching him hang on the cross.

Mary had it pretty rough. But the Church glosses over it, puts her in stained glass windows with a Lillian Gish expression on her face.

How about Joseph?

The ridicule this man must have endured. The business he must have lost in his trade.

King David... anointed to rule yet he had to flee for his life even after his reign (from his son Absalom) in addition to all the years he fled from Saul... the accidental king.

Explain to people the Trinity and they go off into their half baked examples.

1 x 1 x 1 = 1 sounds like a very clever argument until you realize that it is modalism. Hold your one finger up three times (that's all it is) and you have the same finger.

The egg is another, even the triple point of water (when its gas liquid and ice at the same time). It's actually something we must simply receive as face, like fire is hot, water can drown you, etc. And if you must have an example, how about spatial dimensions length, width, height coexisting everywhere at the same time. In fact without all three there wouldn't be an everywhere. A family of three or a corporation of three or three of the same thing forming a set / group. In God's case having the same nature which is one.

The Bible proves over and  over that there is only one God but there are three distinct individuals who are the one God. Can't get your head around it? Then just take God at his word. Not mine. His.

I guess what I am saying is that we Churched folks have more than enough evidence to show that we need to get our act together. And the only way to do that (unity) is the Bible and the verified Holy Spirit interpretation of it.

 

 

[Reinitin]

Wow, interesting stuff. I never cared for apologetics but heaven rejoices at the salvation of one soul. So if logical argument or boastfull defence of the faith breaks the fallow ground so one eternal seed can grow im not against it. Salvation is a work of God. 

Cults is another interesting concept. Who is actually planted with the eternal seed and who labors in vain? Pretty difficult questions. My bigest truth test is this. If the doctrin you believe was built on verses and partial verses out of context its probably a con. Ill pass on parroting it cause its probably a doctrin of men not God.

 

[Snow]

Hi JohnD

So whats with the random mention of KwikPhilly?  She may never read this! you might want to edit that!

And you sure say 'I' an awful lot

Snow

[JohnD]

BTW

My earlier reference to Christmas will no doubt offend some. But it is my hope that they will rather set aside what they have been "told" about the birth of our Lord and study the Bible (with the tutelage of its Author the Holy Spirit). Christ Mass was a Roman Catholic invention to substitute the pagan Saturnalia winter feast (often quite licentious).

One might ask, since Christmas promotes good will and so forth what's the harm?

It's not true.

Truth should be what we who believe in Jesus are all about. 

As an atheist I was witnessing to once said...

"Oh, Santa Claus is fake but Jesus is real?"

You can't defend untruth as truth along side truth without making the truth appear untrue.

[JohnD]

8 minutes ago, Snow said:

And you sure say 'I' an awful lot

Experience. my friend. That and I ← nuther 'un be sure and count it too!

don't wish to be accused of being a gossip.

And thank you for making MY (does that count in your little inquisition?) point (about Christians doing the devil's bidding).

I guess the I's have it.

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[JohnD]

10 minutes ago, Reinitin said:

Wow, interesting stuff. I never cared for apologetics but heaven rejoices at the salvation of one soul. So if logical argument or boastfull defence of the faith breaks the fallow ground so one eternal seed can grow im not against it. Salvation is a work of God. 

Cults is another interesting concept. Who is actually planted with the eternal seed and who labors in vain? Pretty difficult questions. My bigest truth test is this. If the doctrin you believe was built on verses and partial verses out of context its probably a con. Ill pass on parroting it cause its probably a doctrin of men not God.

 

Mark 7:7–13 (AV)
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

 

[JohnD]

John 8:23–24 (AV)
23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

The Greek in this verse (24) omits "he" which is inserted by the English translators and in better versions at least italicizes it to indicate Jesus is actually making three "I AM" statements.

I AM from above.

I AM not of this world.

If you do not believe I AM you will die in your sins.

Sorry Jehovah's so-called Witnesses. Jesus IS Jehovah (Yahweh / YHVH / the Great I AM).

And if you do not believe it, he said himself you will die in your sins.

[Snow]

Wow! Any way i reported the random misuse of KwikPhilly's name

[Reinitin]

People parrot they dont even count then make up stories to justify. How many days and nights did Jesus say he would be in the grave? Its obvious something isnt right. Its obvious the calander and the feasts were changed. Just like the bible said they would be. Crucifixion doctrin is not only bad doctrin its really bad math:) but its easy someone tells you what to believe all you have to do is parrot it. No seeking for christ till you find him. No studying to show yourself approved. Just a mcdonald doctrin wrapped up for you and cooked quickly. 

Most Christians do know the celebrations are pagan.