OneLight Posted March 18, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 18, 2017 52 minutes ago, JohnD said: Oh? So no one who did not have every verse in the Bible on the subject of salvation went to hell? Is that your belief? And now that I think about it, the entire Bible is about salvation. Is it not? Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Don't believe and you are condemned already. John 3:16-18. That is quite enough. Do you personally believe more is required? If so... I suggest that it is you who should start spouting scriptures... Nice day! The Gospel Paul preached was not just salvation, as the verses you quoted claims "I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received". I am positive Paul received much more than the salvation message, otherwise, he would not of written so many epistles. I agree that the whole word given to us from God points to Him and how we may be reconciled to Him through His Son Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinitin Posted March 18, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,366 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 2,150 Days Won: 9 Joined: 01/10/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted March 18, 2017 2 hours ago, JohnD said: John the water Baptist contrasted the baptism of Jesus with his own (water) baptism. Matthew 3:11–12 (AV) 11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: 12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire. Baptism of the Holy Ghost: saved. Baptism of fire: eternal damnation. Water baptism is not required. Here is my objection to your conclusion the minitry of elijah is a for bearing ministry on this earth to the eternal kingdom of God faciltated by the messiah and the Working of the Holy Spirt. Babtism of the Holy Spirit Did Not Preceed and Does not Preceed belief in Christ. The preperation to Christs minisrty did not and does not Preceed Conviction of Sin and recieving the truth. Elijahs call to repentance will forerun Christ tilk the final judgment. The order of operation was prophecied, witnessed, followed by Christ and the diciples and will continue till the Lord hands all back to our Father. The scripture your using to discount the validity and ministry of elijah is a proculation of the ministry of Messiah following the ministry of John. John did not stop baptising at the unvailing and revelation of this prophetic mystery did he? Your use of it for your assumption (doctrin of men) takes it out of context and discounts a standard of prophetic fullfilment that continues till the return of our Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted March 18, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,646 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,831 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Reinitin said: So:) I agree with your path buy hold an issue. I would never come to a conclusion in study that brings me to a place where something im saying is a complete contradiction of at least one scripture. To me this falls under teaching of man. The Lord in his great widom and understanding himself was baptised and his purpose for baptism was stated correct? Were all his diciples baptised? Did all his diciples continue baptising? Did a miracle of God bring philip to a man reading Isaiah? Did the Spirit of God take Philip away after baptizing the convert? Did the Lord compel Peter to baptise the house of Cornelius after conferming the gospel be offered to gentiles? So if our Lord said be baptised, the diciples said be baptised. The word gives us detailed accounts of water baptisms. Who in line with Gods wisdom and understanding would ever say "Water baptism in not required"? Obviously God has an ordained purpose for water immersion outside your understanding of it. But who is man to create conflicts for others with scripture? How can i say i teach a greater message and The Way if is in conflict with The Way as we are shown it? Why not just say the Lords thoughts and ways are greater then ours and search scripture and ask God till you see the big picture instead of spreading a half truth? There is a Godly and Eternal purpose to be baptised and to compel those who recieve the testimonie of Christ to be baptised.It just hasn't been revealed to you yet. Men convinced of false assumptions never recieve complete understanding of truth;( What was Jesus water baptism for? Repentance of sins he did not have? Or the turning away from the old (covenant) to the new? If you trace back the ceremonial washing in scripture (also referred to in the washing of the Pharisees and even Pontius Pilate who tried to absolve himself of his choice to turn Jesus over to the will of the Sanhedrin) you will see it was not a new thing for the coming new covenant but an old thing in the repentance / turning away from the old. Galatians 3:24–25 (AV) 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. Paul also wrote about it in Romans chapters 3-8 and (IMHO it was Paul) in Hebrews. Turning away from the old to the new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted March 18, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted March 18, 2017 John would have prevented him, saying, "I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?" 15 But Jesus answered him, "Let it be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness." MATTHEW Anyone who seeks JESUS will likewise DO as HE says to fulfill righteousness as YHWH says. Same as all the Apostles and disciples did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted March 18, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,646 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,831 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 18, 2017 2 hours ago, simplejeff said: This may be true. Look in NEW TESTAMENT though, those who were not immersed are those who rejected Y'SHUA as MESSIAH and thwarted YHWH'S PLAN for their lives. Those who accepted Y'SHUA were immersed. Acts 19:1–7 (AV) 1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism. 4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 7 And all the men were about twelve. Was this a water baptism? The baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus? Or was it in the next verse the laying on of Paul's hands? And the actual baptism was of the Holy Ghost coming upon them... Remember, Paul said he was not sent to (water) baptize and he listed off a couple he water baptized... not these 12 disciples... 1 Corinthians 1:14–17 (AV) 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinitin Posted March 18, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,366 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 2,150 Days Won: 9 Joined: 01/10/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted March 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, JohnD said: What was Jesus water baptism for? Repentance of sins he did not have? Or the turning away from the old (covenant) to the new? If you trace back the ceremonial washing in scripture (also referred to in the washing of the Pharisees and even Pontius Pilate who tried to absolve himself of his choice to turn Jesus over to the will of the Sanhedrin) you will see it was not a new thing for the coming new covenant but an old thing in the repentance / turning away from the old. Galatians 3:24–25 (AV) 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. Paul also wrote about it in Romans chapters 3-8 and (IMHO it was Paul) in Hebrews. Turning away from the old to the new. Jesus was baptised to fullfill righteousness. Obedience to the forruning ministry of elijah which would of been sin if he didn't. Then after obedience the witness of God and the evidence of the Holy Spirit displayed before man. It was the perfect plan revealed to man and its perfection announced with a heavenly witness. The Baptism of Jesus 13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. 14 But John tried to deter him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?” 15 Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John consented. 16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of Goddescending like a dove and alighting on him.17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.” Your second and third assumptions of an argument are not applicable to Gods purposes in baptism at all. ill answer for Pauls letter to Galatians in another quote to you. I ll have to get the scripture:) your pulling that one out of context and assigning unstated assumptions to prop up a unsupported conclusion too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted March 18, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted March 18, 2017 (re content couple posts back), It looks like you're thinking too hard and ignoring parts of YHWH'S WORD that don't fit what someone taught you, because nothing you've posted shows any disciple of Y'SHUA wasn't immersed in water ..... and, again, it is written (without change - no contradiction) that those who were not immersed were the ones who rejected Y'SHUA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted March 18, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,646 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,831 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, simplejeff said: (re content couple posts back), It looks like you're thinking too hard and ignoring parts of YHWH'S WORD that don't fit what someone taught you, because nothing you've posted shows any disciple of Y'SHUA wasn't immersed in water ..... and, again, it is written (without change - no contradiction) that those who were not immersed were the ones who rejected Y'SHUA. Thief on the cross? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted March 18, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted March 18, 2017 1 hour ago, JohnD said: Thief on the cross? Sorry. No one has been able to prove he was not immersed weeks or months before he was arrested. Also, it remains written in the GOSPEL that those who were not immersed are the ones who rejected Y'SHUA as the MESSIAH. Likewise the ones who were immersed ACCEPTED Y'SHUA as MESSIAH (as it is written STILL TODAY IN THE GOSPEL) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted March 18, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted March 18, 2017 Defending a doctrine, a teaching, or a school, no matter if going by the name Jewish or Christian or pagan or heathen, when it is not Y'SHUA, when it is not in harmony with all of YHWH'S WORD< falls apart and leads to more distance and more doctrines, more teachings, more ideas getting farther and farther from YHWH'S WORD, Y'SHUA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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