Jump to content
SwordMaster

In the midst of many counselors is wisdom...

Recommended Posts

So, I am looking for some wisdom from others, in the midst of many counselors, to see if I am missing anything or have failed to think of something along the lines of which I write.

 

In order to make this shorter than what it would be, I will bring the problem to you by numbers:

 

1.  I am married.

2.  When we married, I believed that my wife was a Christian because she attended church (I have since learned over the years that just because a person attends church does not mean that they are a Christian, particularly since the word means someone who is actively following Christ in obedience); it never occurred to me to ask her if she ever 'went through the motions' of getting saved. I do not want to debate what some believe the "steps" to getting saved are, that is not the point of the OP.

3.  We have had our issues just as any marriage does, but we have never committed acts that were so heinous in marriage that called for a divorce (thank God), and we have always eventually been able to get over things and move forward.

4.  Having said all that, I love my wife and do not want to be divorced... As you can probably see here, there is a "but" at the end of that statement.

5.  Those in my wife's family who were saved, have one by one turned to believe the unscriptural ideology that homosexuals are born as homosexuals, against the clear teaching of the Scriptures (if you are a homosexual or side with the homosexual left, please, I do NOT want to hear from you here, we can discuss the subject matter elsewhere. Thank you). I am not homophobic, we are to love on all people regardless of their sin. Love the sinner as God does, but hate their sin - I do not confuse the two.

6.  Over the past 3 years my wife has stopped going to church, stopped reading her Bible, stopped praying (as a lifestyle - she claims to pray whenever someone in the family needs something...), stopped worshiping God, stopped spending personal quiet time with God...in effect, according to what the Scriptures teach, she is today only a Christian by name. She does not walk in obedience to the Scriptures, and now even tells our children (all 18 or over) that it is OK for them to do whatever they want to do within the law, because they are adults. She gives them no Godly counsel, but if they want to smoke dope in the house, according to her that's fine because its now legal.

I hope you are getting the big picture here.

7.  I am conflicted...I do not want to end up in divorce, but here is my side of the coin: I am not bound - for all intensive purposes - to an unbeliever. What relationship does light have with darkness? 

8.  Because of this homosexual thing (as well as others outside of Christian thought), and her changing her once Christian view to that of the world, in rejecting God's Word on the subject matter and choosing instead to embrace the lies of the homosexual world (even when there isn't any scientific evidence for it), I am now pitted against not only her entire family, but her, and because of her, our children. I don't know if you can imagine it or not, but this is having a huge impact upon my mental and physical health through the stress involved. I have CML (Chronic Myelogenous Leukemia) and this stress is not good for my body, particularly meshing with the chemotherapy drug that I have to take. The more mental and physical stress that I have, the more pain I suffer.

9. Another key element that is pertinent to the discussion - at age 21 I was called into the ministry through a prophetic revelation, which was confirmed over the years by four different evangelists in different church meetings. Sine then God has shown me many things in Scripture that I never heard of before in all my life in church (I was born and raised in church, so practically all my life), and I am not talking crazy unbiblical stuff as some have the habit of doing, thinking they are some kind of prophet. 

For example, I never heard teaching about the New Covenant before (all I ever heard about it was its brief mention whenever pastor would read the Passover section before we partook of communion), nor that Jesus Christ is the living embodiment of the New Covenant (Isa. 42:6; 49:8). Things of this nature.

My point is this, because of all the turmoil in the house now because of her switch "to the dark side" if you will, I cannot perform ministry as I could when she was standing beside me, nor does she want to have anything to do with ministry any longer because, in her words, "No body believes what you believe anymore," speaking of the homosexual agenda. While it is true that many churches and denominations are turning away from God, I am sure that some here will agree that just because they are, does not mean that God has changed what He clearly states in His Word. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever...He does not change just because this country is going over the deep end.

10.  One more key element, is that she has apparently - because of our conflict because her family has active homosexuals in it - decided to cut herself off from me, in practically every way. We have not had sexual relations in almost a year (giving this as the first symptom in no way implies that this is so important to me that I am willing to divorce over it), she no longer tells me that she loves me, and when I asked her last, she shrugged her shoulders as if she is trying to make up her mind whether she does or not. She repeatedly ignores my efforts to improve the relationship (but I will not compromise my relationship with God), throws my cards away, lets the flowers die without any attention whatsoever...doesn't want me to touch her (speaking of non-sexual touch, which at this point is completely off the table), and she can't speak to me without harshness and apparent anger, no matter what the words are.

I can handle rejection from others, because I could always come home and find acceptance in my wife and children - but no more. This is a kind of rejection that, while I probably could handle on a repeated basis as if from work or friends, this is different - this is constant rejection from people that I live with on a daily, hourly, basis. I can only handle so much, it becomes so depressing that even prayer doesn't help.

 

There it is. I am praying for her to get saved, first and foremost, but I cannot wait years for this to take place. If she ever was saved to begin with, that no longer matters (again, I am not interested in hearing about any calvinistic doctrinal statements about salvation and eternal life, that is not the issue here). I cannot continue living with a person that wants nothing to do with me, does not love me (apparently by her actions), does not walk in obedience to God, and chooses to believe the lies of the world over and above God's Word. In my mind, when you reject God's Word for the world, you are rejecting God Himself. And according to Romans 1, when a person rejects the truth of God - whatever that truth might be - He gives them over to more darkness, to continue to believe more and more false ideologies.

 

I will let it rest for now and any discussion that comes will most likely bring out more detail, but I have sat here thinking about it too much already and it is affecting me. If you have any words of wisdom - NOT argument about things that don't really matter in the OP - then please say on...I am listening.

 

Thank you and blessings!

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, SwordMaster said:

So, I am looking for some wisdom from others, in the midst of many counselors, to see if I am missing anything or have failed to think of something along the lines of which I write.

 

In order to make this shorter than what it would be, I will bring the problem to you by numbers:

 

1.  I am married.

2.  When we married, I believed that my wife was a Christian because she attended church (I have since learned over the years that just because a person attends church does not mean that they are a Christian, particularly since the word means someone who is actively following Christ in obedience); it never occurred to me to ask her if she ever 'went through the motions' of getting saved. I do not want to debate what some believe the "steps" to getting saved are, that is not the point of the OP.

3.  We have had our issues just as any marriage does, but we have never committed acts that were so heinous in marriage that called for a divorce (thank God), and we have always eventually been able to get over things and move forward.

4.  Having said all that, I love my wife and do not want to be divorced... As you can probably see here, there is a "but" at the end of that statement.

5.  Those in my wife's family who were saved, have one by one turned to believe the unscriptural ideology that homosexuals are born as homosexuals, against the clear teaching of the Scriptures (if you are a homosexual or side with the homosexual left, please, I do NOT want to hear from you here, we can discuss the subject matter elsewhere. Thank you). I am not homophobic, we are to love on all people regardless of their sin. Love the sinner as God does, but hate their sin - I do not confuse the two.

6.  Over the past 3 years my wife has stopped going to church, stopped reading her Bible, stopped praying (as a lifestyle - she claims to pray whenever someone in the family needs something...), stopped worshiping God, stopped spending personal quiet time with God...in effect, according to what the Scriptures teach, she is today only a Christian by name. She does not walk in obedience to the Scriptures, and now even tells our children (all 18 or over) that it is OK for them to do whatever they want to do within the law, because they are adults. She gives them no Godly counsel, but if they want to smoke dope in the house, according to her that's fine because its now legal.

I hope you are getting the big picture here.

7.  I am conflicted...I do not want to end up in divorce, but here is my side of the coin: I am not bound - for all intensive purposes - to an unbeliever. What relationship does light have with darkness? 

8.  Because of this homosexual thing (as well as others outside of Christian thought), and her changing her once Christian view to that of the world, in rejecting God's Word on the subject matter and choosing instead to embrace the lies of the homosexual world (even when there isn't any scientific evidence for it), I am now pitted against not only her entire family, but her, and because of her, our children. I don't know if you can imagine it or not, but this is having a huge impact upon my mental and physical health through the stress involved. I have CML (Chronic Myelogenous Leukemia) and this stress is not good for my body, particularly meshing with the chemotherapy drug that I have to take. The more mental and physical stress that I have, the more pain I suffer.

9. Another key element that is pertinent to the discussion - at age 21 I was called into the ministry through a prophetic revelation, which was confirmed over the years by four different evangelists in different church meetings. Sine then God has shown me many things in Scripture that I never heard of before in all my life in church (I was born and raised in church, so practically all my life), and I am not talking crazy unbiblical stuff as some have the habit of doing, thinking they are some kind of prophet. 

For example, I never heard teaching about the New Covenant before (all I ever heard about it was its brief mention whenever pastor would read the Passover section before we partook of communion), nor that Jesus Christ is the living embodiment of the New Covenant (Isa. 42:6; 49:8). Things of this nature.

My point is this, because of all the turmoil in the house now because of her switch "to the dark side" if you will, I cannot perform ministry as I could when she was standing beside me, nor does she want to have anything to do with ministry any longer because, in her words, "No body believes what you believe anymore," speaking of the homosexual agenda. While it is true that many churches and denominations are turning away from God, I am sure that some here will agree that just because they are, does not mean that God has changed what He clearly states in His Word. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever...He does not change just because this country is going over the deep end.

10.  One more key element, is that she has apparently - because of our conflict because her family has active homosexuals in it - decided to cut herself off from me, in practically every way. We have not had sexual relations in almost a year (giving this as the first symptom in no way implies that this is so important to me that I am willing to divorce over it), she no longer tells me that she loves me, and when I asked her last, she shrugged her shoulders as if she is trying to make up her mind whether she does or not. She repeatedly ignores my efforts to improve the relationship (but I will not compromise my relationship with God), throws my cards away, lets the flowers die without any attention whatsoever...doesn't want me to touch her (speaking of non-sexual touch, which at this point is completely off the table), and she can't speak to me without harshness and apparent anger, no matter what the words are.

I can handle rejection from others, because I could always come home and find acceptance in my wife and children - but no more. This is a kind of rejection that, while I probably could handle on a repeated basis as if from work or friends, this is different - this is constant rejection from people that I live with on a daily, hourly, basis. I can only handle so much, it becomes so depressing that even prayer doesn't help.

 

There it is. I am praying for her to get saved, first and foremost, but I cannot wait years for this to take place. If she ever was saved to begin with, that no longer matters (again, I am not interested in hearing about any calvinistic doctrinal statements about salvation and eternal life, that is not the issue here). I cannot continue living with a person that wants nothing to do with me, does not love me (apparently by her actions), does not walk in obedience to God, and chooses to believe the lies of the world over and above God's Word. In my mind, when you reject God's Word for the world, you are rejecting God Himself. And according to Romans 1, when a person rejects the truth of God - whatever that truth might be - He gives them over to more darkness, to continue to believe more and more false ideologies.

 

I will let it rest for now and any discussion that comes will most likely bring out more detail, but I have sat here thinking about it too much already and it is affecting me. If you have any words of wisdom - NOT argument about things that don't really matter in the OP - then please say on...I am listening.

 

Thank you and blessings!

 

 

 

1. You are married but you believed that your wife was a Christian or a born again Christian? You know there is a difference. If a true believer marries an unbeliever they are unevenly yoked.Do you believe that both of you loved each other with your whole heart when you were married?

2. Just because someone attends a Church does not make them a Christian. A born again Christian can be recognized if a person evaluates them long enough.

3. No marriage is perfect. The most successful marriages are those who put God first in their marriage.If not the marriage is going to struggle.

4. No one actually wants to get divorced and that should be the last option.

5. Homosexuality is not a Biblical belief. We are to love the homosexual but not love their sinful behavior.

6.Why has your wife turned away from God? Have you asked her? If you are a born again Christian you are going to have to be the example to her of how a person behaves when he loves the Lord. Show much fruit of the Holy Spirit.

7. One of the Biblical reasons for divorce is abandonment by an unbeliever 1 Corinthians 7:15. So if she leaves you that is her problem.

8. Yes, you are in a very difficult position.Remember in the book of Job in the Bible how much criticism Job got from his wife and friends and family?But Job remained faithful to God through all of that. I recommend that you give this whole thing to God and pray often.

9.I do not know what your beliefs are or what denomination you are so I can not comment on that. I also am only hearing one side of the story so it is hard to evaluate the whole picture. It is best to get two sides of a story.

10. Not having sexual relationships puts a hardship on a marriage. It draws the couple farther and farther apart.

Have the two of you discussed any of this with your Pastor or attended marriage counseling?

I am sorry that you are dealing with the Leukemia. That is difficult.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MissMuffet said...

 

Quote

1. You are married but you believed that your wife was a Christian or a born again Christian? You know there is a difference. If a true believer marries an unbeliever they are unevenly yoked.Do you believe that both of you loved each other with your whole heart when you were married?

2. Just because someone attends a Church does not make them a Christian. A born again Christian can be recognized if a person evaluates them long enough.

 

That I honestly do not know, but yes, I know there is a difference between believers and unbelievers, and that we are not supposed to marry unbelievers. As I said in the OP, she was attending church at the time I met her, but being a young man and yet to gain some "Christian life experience," I didn't think to . . . "check" her, for lack of a better term.

 

Quote

3. No marriage is perfect. The most successful marriages are those who put God first in their marriage.If not the marriage is going to struggle.

 

Granted, but part of the reason, I believe, is that she had never done this. We would pray together every night, worship God at home every night, etc...but when "stuff hit the fan" between us and she got her feelings hurt, rather than go to God (which you would have if you had made Him first, no?), instead she would curl up on a proverbial ball, keep it all inside, and never talk about it, not even to me except when it became so great that she lashed out in anger. I have tried several times over the years to get her to go to counseling with me, but she refuses. She is a...'private' person...and doesn't even let her own family know what's going on either inside her, or in our marriage. That has been one of the hard things to deal with her with. No man, or woman, is an island, we were not created to be, and living like that does damage to us. Hence, this is how I think her heart has become hard over the years through "a root of bitterness" that only God can break through...if she lets Him.

 

Quote

4. No one actually wants to get divorced and that should be the last option.

 

Agreed...

 

Quote

5. Homosexuality is not a Biblical belief. We are to love the homosexual but not love their sinful behavior.

 

Agreed.

 

Quote

6.Why has your wife turned away from God? Have you asked her? If you are a born again Christian you are going to have to be the example to her of how a person behaves when he loves the Lord. Show much fruit of the Holy Spirit.

 

She does not believe that she has turned away from God. She believes that those churches who have turned and embraced homosexual ideologies are on the right track, and that churches who have not are..."out of date" or old fashioned, or whatever. She has told me, "I don't think anyone believes the way you do anymore." She is wrong, of course, but she thinks she is right. 

Can a believer believe a false doctrine and still be a Christian? Yes, I believe so (of course, that depends upon what the false belief is - for example, a person cannot even get saved if they do not believe that Jesus is God in the flesh according to John 8:24), but when this happens, its like a Protestant being married to a Catholic...or an Armenian being married to a Calvinist. It engenders darkness in the household because of the conflict of basic tenets of the persons' faiths.

 

Quote

7. One of the Biblical reasons for divorce is abandonment by an unbeliever 1 Corinthians 7:15. So if she leaves you that is her problem.

 

Agreed, but part of the problem here is that she has said that I just need to leave. I think that would change if she thought about all that this would entail - but as you said, that is the unbeliever's lot, not mine. I can not see myself filing unless things get to the point that I just can't handle it anymore and have no choice.

 

Quote

8. Yes, you are in a very difficult position. Remember in the book of Job in the Bible how much criticism Job got from his wife and friends and family? But Job remained faithful to God through all of that. I recommend that you give this whole thing to God and pray often.

 

Yes, I have given everything over to God and pray about things at least once a day, sometimes two and three, like Daniel praying at his window three times a day. I remember Job, but I don't remember reading that anyone but his wife actually being in opposition to him, his children aren't recorded as being obstinate toward him, and his friends were actually trying to help him. But I get your general meaning...yes, I guess maybe I have felt a little like he must have been for a while, and I am holding on for as long as possible, hoping all the while that she gets saved so that we can reconcile.

That is one of my issues...I cannot reconcile with her if she is not going to walk in obedience to God, no fiber in my being seems to be able to accept that.

 

Quote

9.I do not know what your beliefs are or what denomination you are so I can not comment on that. I also am only hearing one side of the story so it is hard to evaluate the whole picture. It is best to get two sides of a story.

 

Yes, and I agree...unfortunately, as I stated above, she refuses to talk with a counselor...even a husband and wife counselor. She doesn't like being told that she is wrong, even when she is, and I suspect that that is one reason why she refuses to see counselors out of fear that they might tell her that she is doing something wrong.

As for my denominational beliefs...I am non-denominational, but that has very little to do with the OP so that is why I left that out.

 

Quote

10. Not having sexual relationships puts a hardship on a marriage. It draws the couple farther and farther apart.

 

Agreed. We had attended many marriage 'seminars' in our home church when we were first married, and learned many things about marriage, and that was one of them. She should remember that point, which appears to me to be one of the signs of just how far gone she is, as far as wanting to be married. I could be wrong.

 

Quote

Have the two of you discussed any of this with your Pastor or attended marriage counseling?

 

No, as I stated in the OP, she quit going to church about 3-4 years ago...and she refuses to go to counseling.

 

Quote

I am sorry that you are dealing with the Leukemia. That is difficult.

 

God is here in my leukemia situation...I believe that He is going to heal me physically (not with death, some believe death is a healing, but that is not in Scripture anywhere), but on His timing. Thanks for the concern!

 

And thanks for answering,

Blessings!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎19‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 9:03 AM, SwordMaster said:

So, I am looking for some wisdom from others, in the midst of many counselors, to see if I am missing anything or have failed to think of something along the lines of which I write.

 

Hi SwordMaster,

You do seem to have a full hand of difficulties. Now we know we cannot change others. God is about changing us. Yes I hear all the difficulties of what others are doing, BUT it is YOU that believes in God & it is YOU He is dealing with. Thus I would say ask the Lord what is something you can work on in your attitude.

Do you come over critical?

Do you Bible bash?

Do you hold a grudge as you can`t do `your ministry?`

Do you just give gifts to get something?

Do you know what speaks to you wife? (not gifts, or affection, maybe words or actions of help around the house)

Do you appreciate some things about her? Do you tell her?

Do you always concentrate on the negative?

 

I don`t know you but those `Do you...` are things we all can try to address in any relationship. Now are you `man enough` in the Lord to ask Him & let Him highlight areas in your life. As YOU change then I believe your wife will soften. it seems to me she has put up a wall against some of your attitudes.

 

Praying for you & your family.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Marilyn said...

 

Quote

 

Hi SwordMaster,

You do seem to have a full hand of difficulties. Now we know we cannot change others. God is about changing us. Yes I hear all the difficulties of what others are doing, BUT it is YOU that believes in God & it is YOU He is dealing with. Thus I would say ask the Lord what is something you can work on in your attitude.

 

 

Hello Marilyn! Yes, I am working on myself as well, but not just for her, but for myself. I always try to improve myself, to be better at things that I notice about myself that can have an improvement, not just in attitude but also in the way I do things. 

 

Quote

Do you come over critical?

 

That is a hard one...I will say that I have been at times, like anyone has, but not to the extent that it was overbearing, nor did I use critical comments like some do as a way to bash someone, or bully them into submission. The kids are grown up now, and my wife still acts like a teenager (sloppy, self-centered, and lazy) so I try to not say something unless, for example, she did something and three days later its still sitting there. I think that I am being more than patient enough, and sometimes feel like she is just doing it on purpose to make me angry.

 

Quote

Do you Bible bash?

 

No, I never have. I witnessed that kind of nonsense behavior while in the Marine Corps, and it does no one any good, really. We used to talk about Scripture, but ever since she has turned to believe that its OK to cuss and be a homosexual, that God will still accept you (as well as other things), we don't talk about Scripture much anymore. It always seems to engender arguments.

 

Quote

Do you hold a grudge as you can`t do `your ministry?`

 

No, I have come to understand that this needs to be 'handled' and taken care of before I can actually go into full time ministry. That is one reason why I am here...because one way or the other, I am not letting her keep me from what God has called me to do. I believe that is why Jesus said that we cannot love others more than we love Him, because it may very well come down to the point that we have to separate ourselves from our loved ones in order to walk with God. Neither my wife, nor my children, will keep me from doing what God has called me to do. There are thousands of lives at stake heading for eternity without God...I am not saying that I am "the one" but I know and understand that God works through people.

 

Quote

Do you just give gifts to get something?

 

No, all I give her today are small cards with meaningful saying on them, and even those she is rejecting and throwing away. 

 

Quote

Do you know what speaks to you wife? (not gifts, or affection, maybe words or actions of help around the house)

 

No, for one reason or another. I read the 5 Love Languages by Chapman and tried to figure it out, but couldn't. I asked her to read it and tell me, and she refused. I came right out and asked her, "What makes you feel loved?" and she said, "If you don't know then you never will. I'm not telling you." Now, you tell me what kind of attitude that is!

 

Quote

Do you appreciate some things about her? Do you tell her?

 

I used to until everything that I did and told her was rejected right off the cuff.

 

Quote

Do you always concentrate on the negative?

 

No...but that doesn't matter any longer as far as she is concerned. Anything I say is negative. When I told her that God's word condemns homosexual behavior, she told me that I was being negative. So, how do you deal with a person that labels everything as negative that you do or say just because they don't agree with it? That's like someone yelling "Grace, grace, grace" all the time and leaving the real world behind.

 

Quote

I don`t know you but those `Do you...` are things we all can try to address in any relationship.

 

So true.

 

Quote

Now are you `man enough` in the Lord to ask Him & let Him highlight areas in your life.

 

Yep, and we have been doing that lately. Not just in my marriage, but in life in general. 

 

Quote

As YOU change then I believe your wife will soften. it seems to me she has put up a wall against some of your attitudes.

 

So far that hasn't worked...as I said, anything that I say or do in effort to move past this and move forward, including all the loving gestures that I make, are automatically rejected. Its as if she has already made up her mind that she wants a divorce, but isn't saying anything because she wants it to be my 'idea.' But you are right, she has built up a wall, but not just against any attitude that I have...

I will try again, with a lot of prayer, but as you said in the beginning, we can't change anyone...God can, but only if the person lets Him. I have had a part of my theology thoroughly being tested here with all of this: will God change a person against their will? I have always said no...and now that I see something happening in my own life, and desire the answer to be yes, I can't be like that. God gave us free will, and I have heard all my life people talking about how they prayed for someone for 30 years to get saved but they never did.

 

All I can see is that God can, but He will not make someone do something that they do not want to do...so, in a way, its all in her lap. I don't want us to end, but I can't keep living like this.

 

Quote

Praying for you & your family.

 

Thank you!

Blessings!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, SwordMaster said:

Marilyn said...

Hello Marilyn! Yes, I am working on myself as well, but not just for her, but for myself. I always try to improve myself, to be better at things that I notice about myself that can have an improvement, not just in attitude but also in the way I do things. 

 

No, I have come to understand that this needs to be 'handled' and taken care of before I can actually go into full time ministry. That is one reason why I am here...because one way or the other, I am not letting her keep me from what God has called me to do. I believe that is why Jesus said that we cannot love others more than we love Him, because it may very well come down to the point that we have to separate ourselves from our loved ones in order to walk with God. Neither my wife, nor my children, will keep me from doing what God has called me to do. There are thousands of lives at stake heading for eternity without God...I am not saying that I am "the one" but I know and understand that God works through people.

 

All I can see is that God can, but He will not make someone do something that they do not want to do...so, in a way, its all in her lap. I don't want us to end, but I can't keep living like this.

Thank you!

Blessings!

 

 

Hi SwordMaster,

Glad you got back to me. Thank you for even going through all those `Do you...`(which we all need to address regularly). Now what comes to mind is that somehow you have the wrong impression of ministry. God uses us wherever we are. So to me you are in God`s extreme training arena. For to have a spouse treat one like that is a huge, trial, physically, emotionally & spiritually.

Yes you may have potential to minister out to others, however you need to see what God would require of you right now at home with your wife. Obviously you have tried all the things that usually draw another one. But...your wife, sounds like she`s hurt, (hurting people hurt) & has chosen to block you out & do things to annoy you. And only God can heal her.

Meanwhile what do you do.....I suggest

1. that you take that `great expectation of ministry` out of the air. I`m sure your wife has felt that pressure. 

2. You need to ask God to love you wife with Christ`s love. That is only possible by the Holy Spirit. It means to love another while they are hurting you. See 2 Peter 1: 1 - 8. There is a list of `add to`s..` & the final one is `love,` which of course is Christ`s love.` Not possible in our selves & thus we need to draw upon the Holy Spirit`s enabling.

Obviously you have been `diligent, have self control, perseverance, godliness, brotherly kindness,` but yet to reach the high mark of Christ`s love. Once you experienced that you will not be concerned so much with what your wife does (to irritate you) but will see her as Christ does, - a lost soul who is hurting, troubled & covering up all that pain by seeming to not care etc.

 

regards, & still praying. Marilyn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mrilyn said...

 

Quote

 

Hi SwordMaster,

Glad you got back to me. Thank you for even going through all those `Do you...`(which we all need to address regularly). Now what comes to mind is that somehow you have the wrong impression of ministry. God uses us wherever we are. So to me you are in God`s extreme training arena. For to have a spouse treat one like that is a huge, trial, physically, emotionally & spiritually.

 

 

Concerning ministry, I have been in ministry for over 35 years, and I know the right impression of ministry. While we are all called to be ministers as in witnessing to the world whenever the opportunities arise, there are also those of us who were called into the ministry by God for a specific purpose. I do not believe that I have the wrong impression of what ministry is: when God calls to ministry, that calling is sure and it will come to the place where God has called it to come....

 

Quote

Yes you may have potential to minister out to others, however you need to see what God would require of you right now at home with your wife. Obviously you have tried all the things that usually draw another one. But...your wife, sounds like she`s hurt, (hurting people hurt) & has chosen to block you out & do things to annoy you. And only God can heal her.

 

I think you are missing the main point here...the reason that she is rejecting what I do is because she has chosen to embrace homosexual left-field nonsense in place of the Truth of God's Word. She knows what the Bible says about homosexuality, yet she has chosen to say that the Scriptures don't give us all the details and science says people are born homosexual, therefore its not a sin to be a homosexual, its just a sin to be having homosexual sex outside of marriage.

This is the cause of the consternation between us now...its nothing that I have done (outside of Scripture) or haven't done. 

Also, I understand what you are trying to say above (I think, anyway), but God comes first...always. As long as my wife is in line with what God says that we are to do and live (which she is not, on many points she is walking in direct disobedience to the Word), then we can live and love and work things out. Unfortunately, she is not, at this point in time. I don't know if that came across the way that I intended it to...I don't have the "master of the house" mentality like so many do today. What I am trying to say is that if she is living like God tells us to, and I am also, then everything works out when we are placing God first.

Right now she is not doing that, therefore...aside from gently ministering to her in ways that I feel God might be leading me to, I cannot 'pursue' her, for lack of a better way to put it. In other words, I am still giving her cards, flowers, complimenting her, etc... and doing the things that a loving husband does, as much as is in me, along with prayer and even some meals fasted...but I cannot make her first before all things, and that is what it sounds like you are advising above.

If I misunderstood, please forgive.

 

Quote

 

Meanwhile what do you do.....I suggest

1. that you take that `great expectation of ministry` out of the air. I`m sure your wife has felt that pressure.

 

 

Two things here: first, there is no expectation of ministry in the air as far as she is concerned. God called me, not her...while I have heard people say before that when one is in ministry, both of them are if the one is married, but that is not only not in Scripture, but it is also a very fleshly viewpoint of ministry. She would be my...'support'...but she made it very clear when we were engaged that she would not do anything having to do with ministry. She is not the kind of person that likes to be in the spotlight, and she doesn't like to be made known. She is one of those behind the curtain types that is willing to do and not be recognized for it - that is one of her strong points. 

She can be very accommodating to others to a fault (which has put us in trouble in the past, and even right now), to everyone, that is, except me. She has never supported anything that I have done or tried to do, ministry or otherwise, from the very beginning - as far as I know, not even in prayer. Now that I think about these things and remember them, perhaps it is becoming clearer that she never was saved in the first place....

Second, the suggestion to leave ministry behind, even temporarily, is something that the darkness would very much like to see. While I am not today in full-time ministry, I am involved in conducting Bible studies and witnessing, none of which she has anything to do with. No insult intended.

 

Quote

2. You need to ask God to love you wife with Christ`s love. That is only possible by the Holy Spirit. It means to love another while they are hurting you. See 2 Peter 1: 1 - 8. There is a list of `add to`s..` & the final one is `love,` which of course is Christ`s love.` Not possible in our selves & thus we need to draw upon the Holy Spirit`s enabling.

 

Been there and doing that...the problem is, having rejected God's Word on a point, Romans 1 shows that when someone does that, God 'gives them over' to greater and greater darkness, since they have rejected light and have chosen to embrace darkness. I am praying for her salvation and coming to the knowledge of the truth first and foremost (I Tim. 2:4), even before our marriage relationship, because that is what's most important to God, I believe. Even if we do end up separated, she still needs to be walking with God, and that is my highest desire for her right now.

Having said that, the hardest part for me right now is that she has chosen to reject the Word of God and to embrace darkness...that is the biggest impact right now not only in our relationship, but also in the house at large. Her ungodly behavior is influencing our children towards the darkness, which is pitting them all against me, the only godly person in the house at this point. I don't know if you can understand how much physical, mental,  and emotional stress that places upon me...but if things don't change, and soon...here within a few months (if I haven't already had a heart attack) I am just going to have to call it quits. Not because I really want to, but because if I don't, I won't be around much longer.

 

Quote

Obviously you have been `diligent, have self control, perseverance, godliness, brotherly kindness,` but yet to reach the high mark of Christ`s love.

 

I see this remark here as an assumption on your part, and it kind of offends. I know that you probably didn't mean it to, but it does. The only thing that I can say to this that is short and sweat, is that one night while bending over the couch praying and seeking God's will for my ministry (that is, what He wants my main ministry message to be), He spoke into my spirit and told me, "Teach My people how to love Me." That was it...and it took me a few to understand exactly what He meant, but I got it.

I know what the high mark of Christ's love is, thank you for sharing your thoughts. 

 

Quote

Once you experienced that you will not be concerned so much with what your wife does (to irritate you) but will see her as Christ does, - a lost soul who is hurting, troubled & covering up all that pain by seeming to not care etc.

 

I believe that I do see her as Christ sees her, which is why I am spending my time praying for her to get saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. Again, we all have pain of one kind or another, we are all hurting and broken and need Christ to mend us because He is the only one who really can. However, what's going on in the house right now really doesn't have very much to do with relationship, it has to do with someone who at one time attended church, worshiped, prayed, read their Bible, etc., now having turned from all of that, yet still having the deception within their mind to believe that she is still a Christian.

 

Perhaps it would be better to look at it from this viewpoint...if I was never saved before, neither my wife, and my children were never brought up in church...but we were all lost sinners up until last year, and then I was the only one who got saved in the family...this is the passage that continually comes to mind...

 

Matthew 10:21-22

Brother will deliver brother over to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death, 22 and you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

 

Matthew 10:34-36

"Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 And a person's enemies will be those of his own household.

 

Does this come upon us because of anything that we do? No, it comes upon those who are born after the spirit through those who are only of the flesh, the light against the darkness. I never thought that it would enter into my house, but it has. 

 

Blessings

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SwordMaster said:

 

 

 

Hi SwordMaster,

Thank you for replying in such detail. Yes it would be one of the most difficult trials for someone. As I said preciously -

`So to me you are in God`s extreme training arena. For to have a spouse treat one like that is a huge, trial, physically, emotionally & spiritually.`

Now I see this from your OP -

`My point is this, because of all the turmoil in the house now because of her switch "to the dark side" if you will, I cannot perform ministry as I could when she was standing beside me, ...`

This looks like to me that `ministry outside the home is first.`  Is that true? This `Worthy brief,` from this site came to me this morning & I immediately thought of you. So here is what George (the owner of this Worthy site, said -

 

Jonah 3:1-2 Now the word of the Lord came to Jonah the second time, saying, "Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and preach to it the message that I tell you."

1 Corinthians 13:1-2 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

When the Lord gave Jonah a second chance, He didn't change His mind about the prophet's destination. He didn't lighten the load or change the burden Jonah was destined to carry. There was no negotiation with Jonah where the Lord expressed understanding about his reluctance to go to Nineveh. God didn't concede to send him to Tarshish just because he'd been heading in that direction anyway. Jonah's disobedience and repentance produced a clear and simple result: a second chance to do what he should have done the first time.

But it was not just for Nineveh's sake. God cared for Jonah, just as He cared for Nineveh. If His concern was only about Nineveh, the Lord could have sent someone else for the task. But He definitely wanted Jonah to go, because He wanted to change and to soften the prophet's heart; to make him more like Himself...

Jonah's identity and calling as a prophet by no means meant that God was finished shaping him. You may have a significant calling on your life; a "prophetic" or "pastoral" role, known as a leader, a man or woman of God. You may know His will, and His word. You may even have some level of intimacy with Him....but all this could also be a basis for presumption, self-righteousness, pride, distance from those less holy than you, and maybe even an unsuspected level of disobedience bordering on rebellion. Something profoundly important can be missing from your character...

Marilyn, Jonah's experience is an excellent example of the Lord's desire to transform His faithful saints. The apostle Paul speaks in 1 Corinthians 13 of a "more excellent way". The preceding chapter, 1 Corinthians 12, is all about spiritual gifts; and Jonah was certainly gifted as a prophet. But what he lacked was of such great concern to God that He was willing to put Jonah into the most dire circumstances imaginable; because what Jonah lacked was a most essential characteristic of God's nature, the love we call "agape"..... the "love" which God Himself is.

 

regards, Marilyn.


 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, SwordMaster said:

 

 

 

 

Hi SwordMaster,

As to scriptures I think it would be more beneficial meditating of what the Lord has given to His Body -

`....the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband.....For how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife.` (1 Cot. 10 - 16)

Marilyn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Marilyn!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×