Is Hell for Real?

[markdohle]

12 hours ago, Opywang said:

The whole point is that I'm encouraging all of y'all to research what I have discover if you do not believe me go do your research read about, and find out.  

I did my research, and I found out that we're being misleading, and it is not what it seem.

Read about what Jesus is talking about that we're going to hell, and read about what he mean by little children.

 

Look my friend, people in hell don't go there by accident, nor are they surprised.  God's judgment is always true, he sees to the core of each soul, and each soul accepts God's judgment.  For a soul in hell, heaven would be worse.  Jesus said that  those who seek will find, how that works I do not know.   I would think either one kneels at the name of Jesus out of love, or out of necessity, because of who Jesus is, he is Lord.  We either go through the door of God's mercy or God's justice, there is no other way.  We are told to leave judgment up to God, meanwhile, we should share the Gospel and show the fruits of our faith.  I pray for all.

 

Peace
Mark

[Your closest friendnt]

4 hours ago, OneLight said:

Have you considered Pauls words I quoted?  Do you understand them?

When we read the Bible, eyes can be open, and or eyes can be close. 

If you please can give something to know what to look when we read Romans 2: 

Why is something special in those Scriptures? 

[OneLight]

16 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

When we read the Bible, eyes can be open, and or eyes can be close. 

If you please can give something to know what to look when we read Romans 2: 

Why is something special in those Scriptures? 

You question is answered below.

7 hours ago, OneLight said:

Have you considered Romans 2:12-16?

For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

Have you ever thought what Paul meant when he claimed this about the Gentiles, some who have never heard a things from scripture or any teaching of the God we know?

 

6 hours ago, OneLight said:

Many don't because it is hard to understand, going against what they have held true for many years.   As you say, God provided evidence of who He is through nature.  Those who never heard of God as we have (think Amazon as an example) can, and some do, have Him in their hearts, living out what they see as His ways in their lives the best they can without scripture or a human teacher. All they have is His Spirit to guide them, but without His words to bring back to memory.  A tough thing to consider since we have so many references at our fingertips ... they do not.

 

[Your closest friendnt]

9 hours ago, OneLight said:

Have you considered Pauls words I quoted?  Do you understand them?

Hello brother OneLight, you want me to be honest with you, and that's what I am trying to do, just to get through this Romans 2: Paul's comment. 

I am trying all along to see if there is any relevance to whether the people in the above scripture are Saved or not. 

And I can not find anything that can suggest  that they are. 

I believe Paul is not addressing believers . 

There is nothing mention in the above passage of scripture about them that they have faith in JESUS CHRIST, it only mention about their consience, and about sin and about punishment of sin or not. 

It mentions people living with the Law and people living without the knowledge of the Law,

he is mentioning their self righteousness, and he mentions some Gentiles  living a in a good consience, and Paul makes a comparison between the two, although a very shallow one, and without talking about their cultural norm. And without referring to their reactive behavior when they are wrong, or when they feel threaten . 

About Jesus Christ being the Judge of all, even people who do not know anything about him. 

There is nothing , not any reference , that Paul has call them "Saints", or "brothers in the Lord", so Paul is not considering them Saved, but only as prospects for evangelization . 

Perhaps profiling some of the Gentiles whom Paul thinks could be willing to here the Gospel. 

Perhaps Paul is suggesting to consider the righteousness of those people, and the need to tell them about the  imputed righteousness of God that comes by faith in Jesus Christ. 

Paul perhaps emphasizes that Jesus Christ is the Judge of both "faith", and "works", and nothing is hidden from him.

Simply to put it, Paul is saying that God has made Jesus  Christ the Judge of everyone. 

not only the judge of faith in people, but also the Judge of works, and he knows all , nothing is hidden from him.

Thank you, and God bless. 

 

[TheMatrixHasU71]

On ‎19‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 2:23 AM, Opywang said:

Heated topic.

Of course Christians will say Hell is real, and all will go to Hell if they do not accept Christ.

I watch this video, and this video show me that maybe Hell is not as bad as the Bible claimed.

*** Removed Embedded Videos - Video are to be placed in the Video forums only, not in the threads outside of the Video Forums. ***

I know this is inappropriate discussion simply because this is a Christian site, and it has 0 tolerate if there is anything said outside the bible. 

But what if we misunderstood the Bible, and it's not what we're told.

Jesus talks about gnashing of the teeth, fire, and brimstone.

I think he was talking about the little children, and if we hurt the little children we would get hurt while we're here on Earth, and not Hell.

Hell is real yes, and when I was here on Earth my jaw has been lock open all day once, and I feel the burn many time, but I don't think everybody will go to hell because they didn't accept Christ.

This guy just save 2 children, and if he didn't become saved, and is it fair that he go to Hell after he save 2 children risking his life?

We would have to be pretty selfish, and evil if we truly believe all will go to Hell cause I don't think our God is that evil.  He is greater than that, and why would he throw away this man that save that two children, and let him burn in Hell forever?

This is just my 2 cent, and please do some research what Jesus is talking about when he mention Hell before doing any discussion.
 

I am reminded of when somebody (I cannot recall who) started, Blaspheme the Holy Spirit Day. There are too many out there who would love to think of Hell as being some eternal kegger but that is not going to happen.

Hell is what it is, a lake of fire and brimstone to which the unrepentant will forever burn. God doesn't put them there willingly. People put themselves there through their rejection of Him. If you believe that video made by foolish and evil men is truth over the bible, then you are calling an God incompetent liar. Sorry to be so blunt about that but there really is no better way to put it.

We all DESERVE to go to hell for our sins. Doesn't matter what good works they have done for our good works are worthless and cannot ever save us.

Isaiah 64:6  But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away

NO GOOD WORK WITHOUT JESUS CHRIST HAS EVER SAVED ANYBODY FROM HELL.

James says

James 2:26   For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

One can easily turn that around, since Abraham believed God (first before his works) and it was attributed to him as righteousness, and say that works without that saving faith coming first are equally dead.

You said

***I did my research, and I found out that we're being misleading***

 Revelation 14:11   And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Revelation 20:10   And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

THAT is misleading to you???

Please, Opy, do not ever put the words of men over the word of God. God never ever misleads people

 

[Radiant_Owl]

Being that Christianity is grounded in the Jewish tradition first and Jesus was a Jew I think what the Jews believed about the afterlife would be relevant as answer to the first question.

From My Jewish Learning:

Heaven and Hell in Jewish Tradition

Jewish sources are conflicted about what happens after we die.

By Rabbi Or N. Rose

Quote

The Upshot: We Don’t Know, So Greater Emphasis on Making Our Lives Count

As is clear from this brief discussion, the Jewish tradition contains a variety of opinions on the subjects of heaven and hell. And modern Jewish thinkers have generally shied away from the topic.

However, the rise of interest in mysticism in the last several decades has prompted a renewed discussion about the afterlife. Given the rich mythical descriptions of the afterlife in the classical Jewish tradition, we must ask how such imagery impacts our views of heaven and hell and the destiny of the human soul.

Are these ideas to be dismissed as the wishes of earlier, less sophisticated religious seekers? Have advances in the natural sciences made it impossible for us to believe in life after death? Or has our disillusionment with certain aspects of modernity — particularly its great reliance on rationality — reopened the possibility of belief in the afterlife in our day?

 

[OneLight]

20 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Hello brother OneLight, you want me to be honest with you, and that's what I am trying to do, just to get through this Romans 2: Paul's comment. 

I am trying all along to see if there is any relevance to whether the people in the above scripture are Saved or not. 

And I can not find anything that can suggest  that they are. 

I believe Paul is not addressing believers . 

There is nothing mention in the above passage of scripture about them that they have faith in JESUS CHRIST, it only mention about their consience, and about sin and about punishment of sin or not. 

It mentions people living with the Law and people living without the knowledge of the Law,

he is mentioning their self righteousness, and he mentions some Gentiles  living a in a good consience, and Paul makes a comparison between the two, although a very shallow one, and without talking about their cultural norm. And without referring to their reactive behavior when they are wrong, or when they feel threaten . 

About Jesus Christ being the Judge of all, even people who do not know anything about him. 

There is nothing , not any reference , that Paul has call them "Saints", or "brothers in the Lord", so Paul is not considering them Saved, but only as prospects for evangelization . 

Perhaps profiling some of the Gentiles whom Paul thinks could be willing to here the Gospel. 

Perhaps Paul is suggesting to consider the righteousness of those people, and the need to tell them about the  imputed righteousness of God that comes by faith in Jesus Christ. 

Paul perhaps emphasizes that Jesus Christ is the Judge of both "faith", and "works", and nothing is hidden from him.

Simply to put it, Paul is saying that God has made Jesus  Christ the Judge of everyone. 

not only the judge of faith in people, but also the Judge of works, and he knows all , nothing is hidden from him.

Thank you, and God bless. 

 

The reason you cannot see this is because it is a hard message to see. IT take Revelation in account.  Hopefully, you will be able to see how God worked this together far before John gave us Revelation.  God will judge them by their hearts upon Judgment day.  No, Paul was not referencing believers, though his audience would of been believers.  Lets dissect this passage.

• for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves

Pay close attention to what is being said.  Gentiles, who do not have the law, as they were never taught the law, and probably never heard of the law, do, by nature, what is acquired by the law.  Seems to me that they must of received some sort of guidance from God if they are obeying His laws.  Not knowing God as we do, they follow the leading of the Holy Spirit, even though they do not know it is the Holy Spirit.  These are people who know nothing about Gods ways outside of what He has shown them through His creation, as spoken of in Romans 1

• who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness

This continues to reflect the explanation above.  Their conscience leads them and bears witness of their heart, where God places His natural law.

• and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

We are convicted for our sins as the Holy Spirit works in us, accusing of of our actions.  The Holy Spirit has been working in us ever since we were first convicted of sin before becoming a Christian.  If they do not follow what God has placed in their heart, they feel accused.  If they do, they are blessed, excusing the fact that they do not personally know God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit. 

When will they be judged and how?  They will be judged "in the day when God will judge the secrets of Men by Jesus Christ.  Sounds like the Great White Throne Judgment to me..  Reading Revelation 20:11-15, lets take a look at verse 12:

And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

Books were opened.  What are in those books?  Their works.  Consider that when a Gentile who does not have the law, by nature DO the things in the law a work.  God really doesn't need books to know what someone has done.  He looks at their heart more than anything else as it is our heart that drives us to do what we do.  Remember that out of our heart our mouth speaks?  I believe also that out of our heart, we act. 

For all so many years we have been told that the word "dead" in the above passage meant spiritual dead.  I would disagree for this reason.  The physically dead are who are mentioned in this verse, both those in hell, and those who are not n hell, but in the sea.  Why would someone be dead in the sea if they were spiritually dead?  Wouldn't they be in hell awaiting judgment for their rejection of Christ? 

We continue to read:

The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Only those who were told of Jesus and accepted His gift of salvation were not judged in the Great White Throne Judgment.  All other, Gentiles who never heard of God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit, never taught by man the meaning of salvation, are standing before Christ Jesus for judgement for they are not sealed with the Holy Spirit, the promise given to those who are able to make the choice.

To be sure, I am against Universal Salvation and all it stands for, everyone being saved.  Yet, I am very open to the fact that God works in mysterious ways and we do not hold the key to a full understanding of salvation through what we know of scripture.

Hope this helped.

[Hawkeye]

On 3/19/2017 at 0:23 AM, Opywang said:

Heated topic.

Of course Christians will say Hell is real, and all will go to Hell if they do not accept Christ.

I watch this video, and this video show me that maybe Hell is not as bad as the Bible claimed.

*** Removed Embedded Videos - Video are to be placed in the Video forums only, not in the threads outside of the Video Forums. ***

I know this is inappropriate discussion simply because this is a Christian site, and it has 0 tolerate if there is anything said outside the bible. 

But what if we misunderstood the Bible, and it's not what we're told.

Jesus talks about gnashing of the teeth, fire, and brimstone.

I think he was talking about the little children, and if we hurt the little children we would get hurt while we're here on Earth, and not Hell.

Hell is real yes, and when I was here on Earth my jaw has been lock open all day once, and I feel the burn many time, but I don't think everybody will go to hell because they didn't accept Christ.

This guy just save 2 children, and if he didn't become saved, and is it fair that he go to Hell after he save 2 children risking his life?

We would have to be pretty selfish, and evil if we truly believe all will go to Hell cause I don't think our God is that evil.  He is greater than that, and why would he throw away this man that save that two children, and let him burn in Hell forever?

This is just my 2 cent, and please do some research what Jesus is talking about when he mention Hell before doing any discussion.
 

Hey Opy,

It seems you are trying to argue for a Universalism standpoint of hell. This is biblically inaccurate, the Bible is very clear that at the final judgement those who were not found in the Lamb's book of life go to perish, destruction, hell. It's important to notice there are 2 words in the original language that are both translated to "hell". The first is Hades/Sheol. This simply means "the grave". In context, it is not fire/brimstone etc. It's the grave/underworld. The second word is Gehenna, which is the lake of fire you speak of.

I lean toward the stance that hell is not eternal conscious torment, as I lean more toward Modified Annihalationism. (I have plenty of reasons & scripture to back it up, but this is not a debate thread for it), but it seems that the Great white throne judgement passage in Revelation is crystal clear- if you do not accept Christ (having your name written in the lamb's book of life). Then you are sent to  said lake of fire (Gehenna). Eternal life is not given to non-believers, it is a gift for believers as referenced in Romans 3:23, John 3:16, John 5:24. Non believers are given death (perish, cease to exist etc).

Anyway, hope it helped. I have found the site "Rethinking Hell" to be very helpful and you may check it out- but I don't see anything in scripture pointing to Universalism.

P.S I'm not responding to any debates on Conditionlism vs Traditionalism  not in this thread

 

[TheMatrixHasU71]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye said:

Hey Opy,

It seems you are trying to argue for a Universalism standpoint of hell. This is biblically inaccurate, the Bible is very clear that at the final judgement those who were not found in the Lamb's book of life go to perish, destruction, hell. It's important to notice there are 2 words in the original language that are both translated to "hell". The first is Hades/Sheol. This simply means "the grave". In context, it is not fire/brimstone etc. It's the grave/underworld. The second word is Gehenna, which is the lake of fire you speak of.

I lean toward the stance that hell is not eternal conscious torment, as I lean more toward Modified Annihalationism. (I have plenty of reasons & scripture to back it up, but this is not a debate thread for it), but it seems that the Great white throne judgement passage in Revelation is crystal clear- if you do not accept Christ (having your name written in the lamb's book of life). Then you are sent to  said lake of fire (Gehenna). Eternal life is not given to non-believers, it is a gift for believers as referenced in Romans 3:23, John 3:16, John 5:24. Non believers are given death (perish, cease to exist etc).

Anyway, hope it helped. I have found the site "Rethinking Hell" to be very helpful and you may check it out- but I don't see anything in scripture pointing to Universalism.

P.S I'm not responding to any debates on Conditionlism vs Traditionalism  not in this thread

 

Hell/Gehenna however is not Annihilationism as Scripture will attest

Revelation 14:11   And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name

JWs and Seventh Day Adventists wrongly believe in Annihilation. But that one passage alone, and there are others, is plenty evidence enough to the contrary. It speaks of being tormented forever. Therefore, you are not annihilated. You don't cease to exist.

 

[LuftWaffle]

On 3/21/2017 at 3:56 PM, Hawkeye said:

Hey Opy,

It seems you are trying to argue for a Universalism standpoint of hell. This is biblically inaccurate, the Bible is very clear that at the final judgement those who were not found in the Lamb's book of life go to perish, destruction, hell. It's important to notice there are 2 words in the original language that are both translated to "hell". The first is Hades/Sheol. This simply means "the grave". In context, it is not fire/brimstone etc. It's the grave/underworld. The second word is Gehenna, which is the lake of fire you speak of.

I lean toward the stance that hell is not eternal conscious torment, as I lean more toward Modified Annihalationism. (I have plenty of reasons & scripture to back it up, but this is not a debate thread for it), but it seems that the Great white throne judgement passage in Revelation is crystal clear- if you do not accept Christ (having your name written in the lamb's book of life). Then you are sent to  said lake of fire (Gehenna). Eternal life is not given to non-believers, it is a gift for believers as referenced in Romans 3:23, John 3:16, John 5:24. Non believers are given death (perish, cease to exist etc).

Anyway, hope it helped. I have found the site "Rethinking Hell" to be very helpful and you may check it out- but I don't see anything in scripture pointing to Universalism.

P.S I'm not responding to any debates on Conditionlism vs Traditionalism  not in this thread

 

Hi Hawkeye,

I've also become convinced that the traditional view of eternal conscious torment is incorrect and that the bible seems to rather clearly teach that immortality is granted only to the saved. I've never heard the term "modified annihilationism" though, what does it mean?

I prefer to avoid the term annihilation and focus on the (im)mortality aspect, so I like the name Conditional Immortality, because that avoid the red herring of whether the unsaved cease to exist.