Thirteen Heresies in THE SHACK

[Willie T]

2 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

I still considered posting the easy refutations of all the obvious fabrications of the book’s actual words, but my wife showed me that I would have no more success than Jesus did with the Pharisees

That or more than likely the both of you thought.   Man that aint falling for this ruse ,  we better go try those who are less biblically

educated.     I mean , IF you could defeat that .   YOU WOULD HAVE .    You know it ,  and I know it  .  NO one who comes in to make

a strong point backs off with the excuse ,  OH the wife told me not to bother .    Maybe you see those pages and was like oops

I better back off this group .    If not ,  bring the evidence .   

Well, unlike some, I am trying to show people a very excellent book that has helped multiple thousands....not just attempting to come out the winner in an argument.

[frienduff thaylorde]

3 minutes ago, Willie T said:

Well, unlike some, I am trying to show people a very excellent book that has helped multiple thousands....not just attempting to come out the winner in an argument.

Willie .   Let me give you a simple scenario .    If one comes putting a different image of GOD , the SPIRIT , THE SON into the minds of men .

HOW ON Earth is that helping anyone .    Sure lots of folks loved it .   THEY DID , that book got the raves , oohs and ahhs.

But that done mean IT HELPED ANY.      GOD don't try and win souls ,  by giving the hearer another image of what or WHO HE REALLY IS .

ITS soley by grace.    AND if that grace comes mixed with tons of truth and even one LIE ,   IT WAS NOT GRACE PEROID .

That is the problem with this all inclusive world peace gospel .     Men who desired the preeminence and those who had agendas said to themselves .

Man we cant catch bait with THE BIBLICAL JESUS,  So lets invent another image of GOD , OF HIS SON ,   and we will catch many.   AND THEY DID.

But the problem is ,    IF they took the bait NOT PREPARED by JESUS , but prepared by men gone wrong ,    ALL those fishes that ate the wrong bait.

THEY the ones that get cast out of that net , while  those who came to the BIBCAL JESUS ,  thems get put in GOOD vessels .

Willie.   It aint the number of fish that matters .   What matters , IS WHAT BAIT they ate of .   FOR IF ITS NOT of the BIBLICAL CHRIST .   OH DEAR its just worldy bait

and them fish will be cast out at the end .   SO ,   lets return to BIBLE ONLY and lets win souls BY the power of CHRIST and not the power of men .

[frienduff thaylorde]

6 minutes ago, Davida said:

Would be nice if you'd defend the Bible instead of a heretical book. 

After I typed away ,   you were typing that .      YEAH ,    noticed it too eh.

MEN defend what they LOVE .    It is their hope , love , their gospel .   THE ONLY problem is ,,,,,,,,,,,,when or if it contradicts the bible .    OH DEAR ,  BAD NEWS . 

[frienduff thaylorde]

13 minutes ago, Willie T said:

Well, unlike some, I am trying to show people a very excellent book that has helped multiple thousands....not just attempting to come out the winner in an argument.

And no one here is trying to be THE WINNER of the argument .     Most posts I read from others ,    were simply trying to point you in the right direction and away from that book.

Willie .   You just pray about that .    Also ,   even if you have read the bible,  my advice,   pick it up again and read it hours daily .    IF you truly desire truth,   OH

you will reiceve it .    Just pick that bible back up and get refreshed .   

[Willie T]

4 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Willie .   Let me give you a simple scenario .    If one comes putting a different image of GOD , the SPIRIT , THE SON into the minds of men .

HOW ON Earth is that helping anyone .    Sure lots of folks loved it .   THEY DID , that book got the raves , oohs and ahhs.

But that done mean IT HELPED ANY.      GOD don't try and win souls ,  by giving the hearer another image of what or WHO HE REALLY IS .

ITS soley by grace.    AND if that grace comes mixed with tons of truth and even one LIE ,   IT WAS NOT GRACE PEROID .

That is the problem with this all inclusive world peace gospel .     Men who desired the preeminence and those who had agendas said to themselves .

Man we cant catch bait with THE BIBLICAL JESUS,  So lets invent another image of GOD , OF HIS SON ,   and we will catch many.   AND THEY DID.

But the problem is ,    IF they took the bait NOT PREPARED by JESUS , but prepared by men gone wrong ,    ALL those fishes that ate the wrong bait.

THEY the ones that get cast out of that net , while  those who came to the BIBCAL JESUS ,  thems get put in GOOD vessels .

Willie.   It aint the number of fish that matters .   What matters , IS WHAT BAIT they ate of .   FOR IF ITS NOT of the BIBLICAL CHRIST .   OH DEAR its just worldy bait

and them fish will be cast out at the end .   SO ,   lets return to BIBLE ONLY and lets win souls BY the power of CHRIST and not the power of men .

Even Jesus constantly and repeatedly said, "You have heard it said" (or "you have been told by your teachers') ", but I tell you, instead……….."

The Bible tells us many times that we got the wrong idea of God, and Jesus came to straighten out our misconceptions.  Why didn't Jesus just simply repeat the original reading of the same Scriptures many were misunderstanding?  It was the Bible, wasn't it?  Why on earth would He tell it another way, other than just how it was first written?

This is what God has done through The Shack.  I can't count the number of times I have heard people say they really never knew God wanted to love us...… They grew up thinking God wanted to punish us.  And that revelation came directly from reading The Shack.  Should they go back to thinking their old thoughts?

[Willie T]

Is there anyone here who has actually read the book, and can talk about it in their own words.... WITHOUT resorting to copy/pasting what someone else told them they were to think?

[ayin jade]

4 hours ago, Willie T said:

I made a mistake last night.  It was late, and I erroneously assumed a poster had been honest in his posting and actually thought for himself.  He hadn’t… (no more than any of the rest of you )— Which I saw within about a minute this morning.  All he did was go to one of the “Hate The Shack” sites and copied what he was told.

I still considered posting the easy refutations of all the obvious fabrications of the book’s actual words, but my wife showed me that I would have no more success than Jesus did with the Pharisees.  So, I’ll just try to accept that you will never give the book an honest read.

But, as disappointed as I am in finding no people here who seem to truly read or think for themselves, I am still hopeful that perhaps one or two of you can recognize the Bible even if it is not spoken just as you have been taught we have to read it.

This is a direct, word-for-word quote from The Shack.  (I simply replaced Mack’s names for The Holy Spirit & God with the religious terms most of you seem to feel you need to hear.

“And one day, when all is revealed, every one of us will bow our knee and confess in the power of [The Holy Spirit] that Jesus is the Lord of all Creation, to the glory of [God].”  (I think that’s from Page 248)

And these two are copied straight out of the Bible:

Philippians 2:10-11 New International Version (NIV)
¹⁰ that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
¹¹ and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father.

Romans 14:11 New International Version (NIV)
¹¹ It is written:
“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
    every tongue will acknowledge God.’”

Do any of you see a difference?  The man the poster I mistakenly complimented last night copied words from another who tried his best to make The Shack say something else.  Very disappointing tactics.

Must you insult folks?

If you are referring to me, Im a woman. I chose not to read the shack because its contents offended me. As someone who was affected by a serial killer (my sis in law was almost murdered by a serial killer after being shot in the head), the book had zero appeal to me to read. You asked for page proof and I gave it to you. You did not specify that I had to read it first in order to show you page proof. 

I did read an interview with the author in which he described the theology behind the book and offered a bible study on his book. I chose not to post that here, but he does go on about his theology in his bible study and it doesnt match what the bible says. He also stated that when he wrote the book he was a firm believer in universalism. 

So despite the source of my post and your insulting words, why not address each of the things listed by page number?

[Steve_S]

6 hours ago, Willie T said:

Do any of you see a difference?  The man the poster I mistakenly complimented last night copied words from another who tried his best to make The Shack say something else.  Very disappointing tactics.

Hi Willie. Below, I'm going to quote another member's answers to some of these questions that do indeed include direct quotes from the book. I would implore you to read them, because there is a fair amount of outright heresy in there, including unabashed universalism which the scriptures simply do not teach.

 

13 hours ago, Sojourner414 said:

Thirteen Heresies in THE SHACK

Thirteen Heresies in The Shack, written by Michael Youssef addresses 13 concerns with the novel and movie, and what the Bible has to say about them:

1. God the Father was crucified with Jesus.

Because God’s eyes are pure and cannot look upon sin, the Bible says that God would not look upon His own beloved Son as He hung on the Cross, carrying our sins (Habakkuk 1:13; Matthew 27:45).

*Page 96: " “We were there together”; page 164: " “Have you seen the wounds on Papa too,”, “He chose the way of the cross…”

 

2. God is limited by His love and cannot practice justice.

The Bible declares that God’s love and His justice are two sides of the same coin – equally a part of the personality and the character of God (Isaiah 61:8; Hosea 2:19).

*Page 106: " “We have limited ourselves out of respect to you.” "

 

3. On the Cross, God forgave all of humanity, whether they repent or not. Some choose a relationship with Him, but He forgives them all regardless.

Jesus explained that only those who come to Him will be saved (John 14:6).

*Page 225:" “In Jesus, I have forgiven all humans for their sins against me, but only some choose relationship” "

 

4. Hierarchical structures, whether they are in the Church or in the government, are evil.

Our God is a God of order (Job 25:2).

*Page 123: "It's one reason why experiencing true relationship is so difficult for you," Jesus added. "Once you have a hierarchy  you need rules to protect and administer it, and then you need law and the enforcement of the rules, and you end up with some kind of chain of command or a system of order that destroys relationship rather than promotes it. You rarely see or experience relationship apart from power. Hierarchy imposes laws and rules and you end up missing the wonder of relationship that we intended for you."

 

5. God will never judge people for their sins.

The Word of God repeatedly invites people to escape from the judgment of God by believing in Jesus Christ, His Son (Romans 2:16; 2 Timothy 4:1-3).

*Page 119-120: “I am not who you think I am, Mack…. I don’t need to punish people for sin. Sin is its own punishment, devouring from the inside. It is not my purpose to punish; it is my joy to cure it."

 

6. There is not a hierarchical structure in the Godhead, just a circle of unity.

The Bible says that Jesus submitted to the will of the Father. This doesn’t mean that one Person is higher or better than the other; just unique. Jesus said, “I came to do the will of Him who sent me. I am here to obey my Father.” Jesus also said, “I will send you the Holy Spirit” (John 4:34, 6:44, 14:26, 15:26).

*Page 121: "Mackenzie, we have no concept of final authority among us, only unity. We are in a circle of relationship, not a chain of command or 'great chain of being' as your ancestors termed it. "

 

7. God submits to human wishes and choices.

Far from God submitting to us, Jesus said, “Narrow is the way that leads to eternal life.” We are to submit to Him in all things, for His glory and because of what He has accomplished for us (Matthew 7:13-15).

 *Page 145-146: “Submission is not about authority and it is not about obedience; it is all about relationships of love and respect. In fact, we are submitted to you in the same way… we want you to join us in our circle of relationship”

 

8. Justice will never take place because of love.

The Bible teaches that when God’s love is rejected, and when the offer of salvation and forgiveness is rejected, justice must take place or God has sent Jesus Christ to die on the cross for nothing (Matthew 12:20; Romans 3:25-26).

*Page 204-205: " ‘Only if you are of the world, apart from me and under the law. Responsibilities and expectations are the basis of guilt and shame and judgment, and they provide the essential framework that promotes performance as the basis for identity and value. You know well what it is like not to live up to someone’s expectations.’"

 

9. There is no such a thing as eternal judgment or torment in hell.

Jesus’ own description of hell is vivid. It cannot be denied (Luke 12:5, 16:23).

*Page 160-162 "“If you are able to judge God so easily, you certainly can judge the world. You must choose two of your children to spend eternity in God's new heavens and new earth....And you must choose three of your children to spend eternity in hell.....I am only asking you to do something that you believe God does. He knows every person ever conceived, and he knows them so much more deeply and clearly than you will ever know your own children...You believe he will condemn most to an eternity of torment, away from his presence and apart from his love."

 

10. Jesus is walking with all people in their different journeys to God, and it doesn’t matter which way you get to Him.

Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life, and no one will come to the Father but by me” (John 14:6).

*Page 182: " Those who love me come from every system that exists. They are Buddhists or Mormons, Baptists or Muslims, Democrats, Republicans and many who don’t vote or are not part of any Sunday morning or religious institutions. I have followers who were murderers and many who were self-righteous. Some are bankers and bookies, Americans and Iraqis, Jews and Palestinians. I have no desire to make them Christian, but I do want to join them in their transformation into sons and daughters of my Papa, into my brothers and sisters, into my Beloved."

 

11. Jesus is constantly being transformed along with us.

Jesus, who dwells in the splendor of heaven, sits at the right hand of God, reigning and ruling the universe. The Bible says, “In Him there is no change, for He is yesterday, today, and forever” (Hebrews 11:12, 13:8; James1:17).

*Page 182: " Those who love me come from every system that exists. They are Buddhists or Mormons, Baptists or Muslims, Democrats, Republicans and many who don’t vote or are not part of any Sunday morning or religious institutions. I have followers who were murderers and many who were self-righteous. Some are bankers and bookies, Americans and Iraqis, Jews and Palestinians. I have no desire to make them Christian, but I do want to join them in their transformation into sons and daughters of my Papa, into my brothers and sisters, into my Beloved."

 

12. There is no need for faith or reconciliation with God because everyone will make it to heaven.

Jesus said, “Only those who believe in me will have eternal life” (John 3:15, 3:36, 5:24, 6:40).

*Page 192: “Through his death and resurrection, I am now fully reconciled to the world”; "The whole world, Mack. All I am telling you is that reconciliation is a two-way street, and I have done my part, totally, completely, finally. It is not the nature of love to force a relationship but it is the nature of love to open the way.”;  page 117-118:"The Good News is not that Jesus has opened up the possibility of salvation and you have been invited to receive Jesus into your life. The Gospel is that Jesus has already included you into his life, into his relationship with God the Father, and into his anointing in the Holy Spirit. The Good News is that Jesus did this without your vote, and whether you believe it or not won’t make it any less or more true. "

 

13. The Bible is not true because it reduces God to paper.

The Bible is God-breathed. Sure, there were many men through 1,800 years who put pen to paper (so to speak), each from different professions and different backgrounds, but the Holy Spirit infused their work with God’s words. These men were writing the same message from Genesis to Revelation. If you want to read more about the place of Christ in the Scripture, read “We Preach Christ” (2 Timothy 3:16).

*Page 65-66: " “In seminary he had been taught that God had completely stopped any overt communication with moderns, preferring to have them only listen to and follow sacred Scripture, properly interpreted, of course.  God’s voice has been reduced to paper, and even that paper had to be moderated and deciphered by the proper authorities and intellects.  It seemed that direct communication with God was something exclusively for the ancients and uncivilized, while the educated Westerners’ access to God was mediated and controlled by the intelligentsia.  Nobody wanted God in a box, just a book.  Especially an expensive one bound in leather with gilt edges, or was that guilt edges?”

Jesus told us: Joh 14:6  Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

There is only one way to the Father and nobody is going to find it through buddhism or the other multitude of false religions that this guy lists. In the very last quote, about reducing God to paper, this person attempts to justify his theology by marginalizing the scriptures. Such a thing is always imperative for false teachers and that should be the first red flag for anyone reading this heresy.

[Gus]

If people want to believe that God will send the Majority of the human race to eternal damnation in hell, then they will only present scriptures that try to back that up without actually getting into a meaningful discussion on the subject.

What bothers me is those people seem to actually have a righteous attitude that hey are saved yet everyone else will burn in hell, probably including their own family and children...

But they never present scriptures which proclaim that actually, maybe, there is salvation for all.

So here you go...

Colossians 1:15-20 - Does 'all' here actually mean all, or does something not agree and think its just means some? If you take it as it says, which all, there is no argument.

1 Corinthians 15:22-23 - All die through adam. Nobody gets out to that. Therefore it is only right that all are made alive in Christ. But! Not all at the same time. Some will not until after death and will experience a process of reconciliation.

Ephisans 1:9-10 - It is true that we can only go to God through his son Jesus, but that does not mean people will be cut out. They still have to go through Jesus. This actually strengths his work on the cross, it does not diminish it.

1 Timothy 2:3-6 - Gods will is to save all, and if the majority of mankind isn't, he has failed.

1 Timothy 4:9-11 - Saviour of all men, especially those who believe. Not only those who believe.

John 1:29

1 John 2:2

Romans 5:6

Luke 23:34 - Would God not answer Jesus pray?

Isaiah 45:25

Romans 5: 18-19 - The 'many' in 19 refers to 'all' in 18, so it is 'all'.

Hebrews 10: 14-17 

Shall I continue?

 

 

[Gus]

6 hours ago, Davida said:

Try to pray for spiritual discernment Willie that God may remove the blindness.

Why would anyone think representing God the Father as a hip black woman who presents a feminist version of GOD is not blasphemy?  & a milk-toast, hippy banal weak Jesus that looks nothing like the Lord Jesus in the Bible scriptures.

The Shack not only presents a false theology but it is one of the most poorly written books that I've had the displeasure of pouring over it's pages. 

This comment just shows up your bigotry and intolerance. How 'you' see God and Jesus is not how everyone else in the world does.

What does it say in the bible Jesus looked like exactly?

Edited June 18, 2018 by Gus