JohnD

ROMAN CATHOLICISM... the good, the bad, and the other

148 posts in this topic

Recently the point was misunderstood in another thread that Roman Catholicism was being accused of being a cult.

It is not a cult.

One of its defenders is a recent convert to Roman Catholicism from "used to being a Protestant..." I personally am especially hopeful

they will give their reasons why they did so here.

On the table is Roman Catholicism, Protestantism, Messianic Judaism, Non-Denominationalism.

Off the table is atheism, humanism, cultism, or world religions other than Christian sects.

Okay?

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It was said of Adolf Hitler that the man understood how to rouse a fierce following in people by outlandish speeches and doctrines as well as pomp and circumstance. Dress people up, put them in lock step, have many parades and rituals...

This is the human condition.

This is what human religion has been centered on for thousands of years.

This is what God set out to wean humanity from beginning with the calling out of Abraham from Ur of the Chaldeans.

When I personally enter into a discussion about why Christians (from Roman Catholicism to Protestantism to Messianic Judaism to Non-Denominationalism) do what they do

even though it is not biblical... I point out that the common thread with them all is what I call religion lust.

Religion lust.

Mankind is incurably religious by nature.

Even atheists by and large pursue their atheism with religious zeal and fervor. Most of whom I've asked, if there is no god, why are you so concerned?

The point I am making here is that the religion lust drives men and women to seek non-biblical practices to fill a need that would otherwise be filled to the full with an abiding relationship with Christ Jesus.

A thing, even when we achieve it, so often we don't trust it / rely on it / know that it (and he) is always in our hearts even when the world or sin in our lives distract us or prevent us from being in touch with the indwelling Lord.

It is my premise these things are what fuel the unbiblical practices in Christianity and once this is properly dealt with many "Churches" will empty out and Christians will begin their persoanl ministries according to their calling (all are priests before God, btw).

Then the Church will be unified and the Gospel properly spread to every creature.

 

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21 hours ago, Yowm said:

Trent pretty well defines who and what is an RCC and faithful follower. If a person or Church claims to be RCC but dismisses Trent, the question becomes, 'are they a Roman Catholic Church'?

 This same principle could be applied to any known 'cult' group who does not 'tow the line' of the founder..are they still to be clumped in with the main group?

 I believe we can only go by who they identify with (e.g. RCC) and assume because  they claim their name then they hold to the foundational tenets of that group.

 

20 hours ago, JohnD said:

I did not say RCC was a cult.

I said one of the definitions of a cult (namely adding to or taking away from the word of God) should give us all concern for cultic behavior.

Veneration of Mary was just one of the many I could easily list off in protestant as well as RCC and Messianic Judaism.

 

 

12 hours ago, Fidelibus said:

I thought and was taught the same thing when I was Protestant. (converted to Catholicism recently) After researching early church history, and searching deep into Catholic teaching and actually asking practicing Catholics, I found out this is not the case at all.
 

 

12 hours ago, JohnD said:

Co-redemptrix with Christ?

 

1 hour ago, kwikphilly said:

Blessings John

    Im not quite sure if you misread what I said, I most certainly did not mean to imply that you were saying the rcc is a cu lt, .... I did mention the points you brought up and begged the question " is the rcc a cult" & also" can we label all catholics cultists" which Yown responded to, I believe I would agree with his reply

This is the history to follow as the split messed up the thread - my apologies as I tried to move the old discussions to this new thread JohnD began.

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1 hour ago, Fidelibus said:

The term "co-redemptrix" is properly translated "the woman with the redeemer" or more literally "she who buys back with [the redeemer]." The prefix "co" comes from the Latin term "cum" which means "with" and not "equal to." Co-redemptrix therefore as applied to Mary refers to her exceptional cooperation with and under her divine son Jesus Christ, in the redemption of the human family, as manifested in Christian Scripture.

By studing early church history, one can see it has been a belief since the first centuries of the Church. (Thats fourteen hundred years before Protestantism)  "Co-Redemptrix" refers to Mary's participation in Jesus' work, kind of the way an Evangelical pastor participates with Jesus when he prays for people and preaches the Gospel. "Mediatrix" refers to Mary's role of "Magnifying the Lord" (Lk 1:46). Again, in my conversion to Catholicism, I found no teaching or practiceing Catholic that puts The Blessed Virgin Mary on the same level as God.  With all due respect JohnD, to think otherwise is simply not true.

 

1 hour ago, Fidelibus said:

Of course the Catholic Church isn't a cult...it's the Church founded by Jesus Christ! But I know many non-Catholics (speaking as a former Protestant myself) that have some pretty inaccurate views of Catholic teaching and practice. As I have found in my studies of Catholicism before I converted, the similarities between Catholicism and cults are only skin-deep, if they exist at all, and once you dig deeper they are very, very different things.

 

1 hour ago, OneLight said:

I would agree that it is not a cult, but is is not the Church Christ designated.  It is full of man made religious rules that are not meant to be forced onto the whole church, but may be the decision of the individual.  I grew up in the RCC and studied it for the first 12 years of my life, the most impressive time in a persons life.  Just one question of many I could ask of you is to show me with scripture where penance is required.

 

1 hour ago, JohnD said:

Again, I never said Roman Catholicism was a cult.

I said Roman Catholicism and Protestantism and Messianic Judaism are fraught with cultic practices. And that was the point I was making about

pointing fingers (not that identifying cults and cultic practices is wrong... but rather ridding ourselves of them both FIRST as in get our own house in order FIRST is the priority as Jesus pointed out in Matthew 7... FIRST get the log out of your own eye in order to help your brother / fellow man get the speck out of his eye).

 

More added to the above line of posts.

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3 hours ago, JohnD said:

One of its defenders is a recent convert to Roman Catholicism from "used to being a Protestant..." I personally am especially hopeful

Well JohnD if this is directed towards me, all I can say is that for myself, there are as many reasons for "converting" to The Catholic Church as there are converts. To name a couple, and being a history buff, history was a biggy. There’s no way I can write all of the historical reasons why I converted to Catholicism. But there’s no doubt about it, in my studies I have found the Catholic Church has history on her side when it comes to theology, over two thousand years worth, whereas Protestantism only has a few hundred.

A few other reasons that were reasons in my conversion (I cant get into right now due to time restrains, but will in the future if asked) to the Catholic Church were Unity, Authority, Free Will, Confession, Canon, and of course, The Holy Eucharist.

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10 minutes ago, Fidelibus said:

I have found the Catholic Church has history on her side when it comes to theology, over two thousand years worth, whereas Protestantism only has a few hundred.

I have never fully understood this reasoning. If history and tradition is what counts then we should become Jews.

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Shalom Fidelibus,

I am sure this is not directed toward just you, but that John was interested in the reasons why you changed beliefs.

As for History, yes, the RCC has more history since it has been around the longest.  Yet, the history it presents is not always that kind toward to those who disagree with their beliefs, nor does it show the true love of God.  I am not a history buff, but I do remember reading about their past.

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3 minutes ago, OneLight said:

Shalom Fidelibus,

I am sure this is not directed toward just you, but that John was interested in the reasons why you changed beliefs.

As for History, yes, the RCC has more history since it has been around the longest.  Yet, the history it presents is not always that kind toward to those who disagree with their beliefs, nor does it show the true love of God.  I am not a history buff, but I do remember reading about their past.

This could be for the fact that whatever 'christian institution' is in control things go south. Calvin's Geneva  was no cakewalk for those who disagreed with the Reformed way of things.

Christ's Kingdom is not of this world ...a shock   to post millennialists.

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2 minutes ago, OneLight said:

Shalom Fidelibus,

I am sure this is not directed toward just you, but that John was interested in the reasons why you changed beliefs.

As for History, yes, the RCC has more history since it has been around the longest.  Yet, the history it presents is not always that kind toward to those who disagree with their beliefs, nor does it show the true love of God.  I am not a history buff, but I do remember reading about their past.

Christians of all denomtions have blood on their hands. 

The RCC and the Orthodox churches both trace their teaching all the way back to the Aposltes and Jesus. I understand that statement is reject here. But it's the truth. Protestant teachings did not exists until Martin Luther. And have twisted into something that doesn't even resemble what the original Protestant believed. Yet the Catholic Church and Orthodox Churches are still teaching the same faith today as was 2000 years ago. 

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Roman Catholic Doctrine is not the same as ( I hate the name protestant) Bible Christian doctrine-- the two are completely different-  so of course dedicated Catholics will Call Christian a cult and Christians will Call Catholics a cult--- a serious student of theology will see that even though there are some similarities, the difference are significant and unresolvable.  WE are talking about two completely different animals here-  a horse and a dog both have a nose two ears and four legs but they are not the same.  we know- there can only be one way to God~~~~~~~

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