Rev. 12: Heavenly Sign to appear in 2017 - What could it mean?

[Revelation Man]

15 hours ago, Blueyedjewel said:

The whole book of revelations is prophecy. We dont get to pick and choose how we label it. God already took care of that

Ah! Now I get it. You are a preterist? 

Prophecy interpretations get more interestingly twisted the closer we get to Christ coming.

You don't get anything. You even thinking I am a preterist is lazy because I have threads that tell who Babylon, the Harlot and the Seven Headed Beast are on this very site.  Rev. 12:1-5 is Jesus being born. You not getting that its a PAST EVENT is rather strange.

 

 

Edited August 13, 2017 by Revelation Man

[Revelation Man]

2 hours ago, missmuffet said:

If you take the Bible 100% literally you can not miss the pretribulation interpretation.

Yes, you can not have a Rev. 19 without a Rapture.  

[rollinTHUNDER]

Oops - see what I started?

[Diaste]

8 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Yes, you can not have a Rev. 19 without a Rapture.  

Wrong. 

Rev 19

And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

2 Thess 1.

NIV

This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels.

 2 Thess 1

KJV

when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

2 Thess 1

Living Bible

when the Lord Jesus appears suddenly from heaven in flaming fire with his mighty angels

You get the idea...

From the Greek dictionary of the Bible defining 'angel' from 2 Thess 1:8;

aggelos: an angel, messenger
Short Definition: an angel, messenger
Definition: a messenger, generally a (supernatural) messenger from God, an angel, conveying news or behests from God to men.

 

From the Greek dictionary of the Bible defining 'armies' from Rev 19:14

strateuma: an expedition, an army, a company of soldiers
Short Definition: an army
Definition: an army, detachment of troops.

From the Greek dictionary of the Bible defining 'saints' in the entire NT.

hagios: sacred, holy
Short Definition: set apart, holy, sacred
Definition: set apart by (or for) God, holy, sacred.

 

This is always the term used for 'saints' in the entire NT, no other term is used. Likewise the word 'hagios' is never used when describing angels or armies.

'Armies' appears 5 times in the NT. Three times it's the same word; Matt 22:7, Rev 19:14, and Rev 19:19. This is the Greek word 'strateuma' and it means army, and is the same as the 'armies' in Matt 22:7 parable, used when describing the armies of the king. The other two times the term is used describes either the encamped armies or the camp of armies, buildings  and such.

It's impossible to conclude the group coming with Jesus is made up of the saints. This group is soldier angels, not the redeemed friends of Jesus.

Jesus is leading a great company of mighty angels in Rev 19:14, coming from heaven to earth, at the same time other angels are either gathering of have just finished gathering the saints, resurrecting the dead first and then removing those left alive from GT off the earth, just moments before Jesus appears and begins to prosecute the wrath of His Father and carry out sentence on the rebels. This is the order:

Beginning of Sorrows.

A of D.

Great Tribulation

Sign of the coming of the Son of Man

Appearance of Jesus/Gathering of the Elect

Wrath of God.

And none other.

[Revelation Man]

16 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Wrong. 

Rev 19

And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

2 Thess 1.

NIV

This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels.

 2 Thess 1

KJV

Not that I care, but switching bibles per certain words really makes no sense. I still with the KJV or Holman no matter what, if I need to explain the Translation I do. Its no big deal, but I don't understand why people do ot.

NOW....Your two scriptures here are kind of like Eves confusion in the Garden of Eden when Satan told her, "You will no surely die" which was a Half Truth. You see, the Angels AND the Church comes with Jesus Christ. So of course 2 Thess. 1 is correct, but it does not a think to change the fact I stated, Rev. 19 can not be TRUE unless the Church is RAPTURED. Its not that complicated.

Revelation 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready 8 And to her(CHURCH) was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the FINE LINEN is the righteousness of SAINTS 9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

{{{ OK, There are MUCH PEOPLE in heaven, and then we see the Marriage of the Lamb to his Bride (Church) takes place. She is given WHITE ROBES that stand for her Righteousness as SAINTS !! THIS IS THE CHURCH. Then we are told that Blessed are those who are CALLED to the Marriage Supper (REMEMBER THAT). So the Church is in Heaven, Marrying the Lamb and awaiting the Marriage Supper, lets see what happens Next. }}}

10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. 11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True (JESUS), and in righteousness he doth judge and make war 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. (See verse 8, the Fine White Linen signifies a SAINT of God.)

{{{ The Church returns with Jesus Christ FROM HEAVEN, to Earth, where the Anti-Christ his Kings and their Armies are STILL ON EARTH, After the Rapture !!!! (SEE BELOW). So the Rapture happens well before the Second Coming. Its Elementary in reality, if we follow the scriptures instead of the "Traditions of men". Lets finish this up. }}}

Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven (CHURCH), Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God. 18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. 19 And I saw the (BEAST Still Alive), and the kings of the earth, and their armies (Still Alive after the Church comes back with Jesus From Heaven), gathered together to make war against him(JESUS) that sat on the horse, and against his army(CHURCH/Angels). 20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet (Two Men) that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone (Same as Daniel 7:11). 21 And the remnant were slain with the sword(Holy Spirit) of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

{{{ OK, we have the Marriage Supper happening here, of course the "MARRIAGE SUPPER" is those killed at Armageddon. If you read Matthew 24:28 properly you will understand what Jesus meant about where the Carcass is there the Eagles (fowls) will be Gathered. He was speaking about the Second Coming, IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Tribulation, and that happens with the Church in tow, as Rev. ch. 19 clearly shows us, if we just read the plain text as written. So the Beast/Kings/Armies are still on Earth while the Church is in Heaven Marrying the Lamb (Jesus). The Battle of Armageddon is fought after the Saints return from Heave on White Horses with Jesus, so there has to be a PRE-TRIBULATION Rapture. Then the Marriage Supper is served, the flesh of the wicked men on earth is our glorious feast. Then the Beast and False Prophet are cast into hell, and their Armies are killed, to be Judged in 1000 years. Now disprove anything I stated with scriptures, it can't be done. }}}

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

Jesus is leading a great company of mighty angels in Rev 19:14, coming from heaven to earth, at the same time other angels are either gathering of have just finished gathering the saints, resurrecting the dead first and then removing those left alive from GT off the earth, just moments before Jesus appears and begins to prosecute the wrath of His Father and carry out sentence on the rebels. This is the order:

Beginning of Sorrows.

A of D.

Great Tribulation

Sign of the coming of the Son of Man

Appearance of Jesus/Gathering of the Elect

Wrath of God.

And none other.

Just to be crystal clear on your points I Skipped over, trying to prove the Church isn't in heaven (unsuccessfully) what the very first verse in Rev. 19 says.........THERE WAS MUCH PEOPLE IN HEAVEN !!

Now, on to these points of emphasis above.

The Beginning of Sorrows happens after 70 AD and before the Tribulation begins and before the Rapture. Matthew 24:14 says the Word must be preached unto all the World, then end will come, so the "Sorrows" is not nor can it start during the Tribulation, but well before. Of course you might have meant that. So the Sorrows to begin first but not during the Tribulation.

1. Sorrows Begin just before the Disciples are Killed See verses 8 and 9.

2. The Tribulation is a Seven Year Period called Jacobs Troubles. Its the last of the 70 Weeks Decree/Judgment. The "Greatest Troubles" do come just after the Abomination of Desolation, but that is not the "Great Tribulation" as mentioned by John in Rev. ch. 7, the Great Tribulation is a 2000 year period of Tribulation that the Church went through. 2000 years is FAR GREATER than 7 years, although the GREATEST TROUBLES EVER happen in the Last 7 years or even the last 3.5 Years. 

3. Israel REPENTS (As a Nation, not all Jews) just after the Two-Witnesses are sent forth before the AoD. 

4. The Abomination of Desolation, The Day of the Lord and the Wrath of God all have one and the Same starting point, as a matter of fact the DOTL and Gods Wrath are the same thing. Gods Wrath begins with the Opening of the Seals, of course.

5. Then Jesus comes at the End, via the 6th Vial which Gathers the Nations unto Armageddon. Then the Seventh Via is poured out, Jesus lands on the Mt of Olives, thus the great EARTHQUAKE in Rev. 16:19. 

[Reinitin]

On 3/19/2017 at 0:51 PM, rollinTHUNDER said:

Revelation 12: Heavenly Sign to appear in 2017 - What could it mean?
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Based on the following prophecy, I believe the year 2017 could be a very interesting year.  In this post I’m going to share three reasons why I believe the passage below relates to Daniel’s 70th week.  The final seven years of this age could very possibly begin this year, in the fall of 2017.  I’m sure that some will misunderstand what I just said, so let me be perfectly clear.  The sign or wonder in the passage below will certainly appear in heaven on a certain date in 2017, but I’m not claiming that Daniel’s 70th week or the seven year peace settlement will definitely begin on that specific date.  It may begin on the same date the sign appears, but it can just as easily occur before or after the sign appears as well.  I’m not setting a date for when I believe the covenant with many will be confirmed (Dan 9:27).  I’m merely stating when the sign or wonder will appear in heaven, and what I believe it means.  With that said, let’s go straight to the scriptures.

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Revelation 12:1-17 (KJV) – “And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: ² And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
³ And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. ⁴ And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. ⁵ And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
⁶ And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. ⁷ And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, ⁸ And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. ⁹ And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. ¹⁰ And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. ¹¹ And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. ¹² Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. ¹³ And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. ¹⁴ And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. ¹⁵ And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. ¹⁶ And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. ¹⁷ And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
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Shortly after I became interested in eschatology (study of end-times) in 1990, I came across a Christian forum online that discussed various topics relating to Bible prophecy.  I vividly remember one such topic that only had two schools of thought at that time.  It was Revelation 12:1-2: The woman clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet…  Some people believed the woman represented the nation of Israel, while others supported the belief that this prophecy was about the virgin Mary.  Many jumped right into the debate, trying to convince the others why their view of one or the other was correct.  No one ever seemed to convince anyone else of anything that would change their minds back then.  But that was then, and this is now, and a lot has changed in just the last ten years alone.  It now appears that both of those beliefs have become obsolete, as focus has now shifted from the woman, to the wonder or sign that is said to appear in heaven.  Now some of us realize this woman is only a part of the sign or wonder that will soon appear in heaven, and it’s a huge game changer.
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Today, we know a lot more because of a unique digital program that can be downloaded onto our computers.  I have personally downloaded this program myself, which allows us to view the stars, planets and constellations in our solar system, and we can watch these heavenly bodies move about, as we click back and forth on different days, weeks, months, years, and even centuries.  Don’t worry, though, I’m not suggesting we start studying Astrology and horoscopes that God’s Word tells us not to do, but rather, I’m referring to Astronomy, which is the study of our solar system.  There’s a big difference between Astrology and Astronomy, as one focuses on self and fortune telling, while the other focuses on God and His creation.  The Bible says that even the heavens declare God’s glory and that He reveals signs and wonders.
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Genesis 1:14-15 (KJV) – “And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: ¹⁵ And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.”
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Psalm 19:1-2 (KJV) – “The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. ² Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.“
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Luke 21:11 (KJV) – “And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.”
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Acts 2:19 (KJV) – “And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:”
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Thanks to this new digital program, we now know when this wonder will appear in heaven.  It’s an extremely rare sign that will finally appear this fall, on Sept. 23, 2017.  It’s so rare that it was not seen in the last 5,000 years, and it will not be seen again in the next 1000 years.
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Some pre-tribulation rapture believer’s think this sign relates to the rapture, because it appears right after the Feast of Trumpets.  However, I believe they’re going to be very disappointed, and even more-so, if what I believe it relates to occurs, because this will be the very event that finally disproves their rapture theory.  I’m going to tell you three reasons why I believe this wonder in heaven relates to the beginning of Daniel’s 70th week, which, again, are the final seven years of this age, before Christ returns.  I should point out, though, that pre-tribbers believe the rapture will occur (before) Daniel’s 70th week begins.  In other words, if these final seven years begin, and the pre-trib believers are still here with the rest of us, then their theory will be the first rapture theory proven false.  However, if they are gone (fat chance), they would be correct.
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Now I’m ready to tell you three reasons why I believe this wonder relates to Daniel’s 70th week or the final seven years before Christ returns.  After reading the entire chapter, most scholars recognize the great tribulation or the second-half of the seven years in verse (14), where the woman is nourished for a time, times and half a time (3.5 yrs.).  Yet because it fails to mention anything about the time in the first-half of the seven years, before the great tribulation, many scholar’s believe this prophecy only relates to the last 3.5 years instead of the entire seven years.  However, I believe they are overlooking some key facets that do, in fact, relate directly to the first 3.5 years.  So I will now explain why I believe this prophecy is describing the entire seven years of Daniel’s 70th week (Dan. 9:27).
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First, I prefer to gather all of the clues, not just some of them.  After all, who would put a puzzle together with only some of the puzzle pieces?  It’s very easy to see the woman fleeing into the wilderness for 3 1/2 years.  And that the dragon was angry with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.  But we should not forget, in verse (2) the woman was with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.  This is important, because she gives birth before she flees into the wilderness for 3.5 years.  Viewing the program I downloaded, Jupiter, the king planet was in Virgo’s womb, for 42 weeks before she gave birth.  It's interesting that forty-two weeks is the time it takes for a natural child to be born, but the 42 weeks could also represent the first-half of Daniel’s 70th week.  However, that’s hard to prove and not important, but the birth pains are important, and they come before the great tribulation begins.
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We can also see that the child was born, that He was to rule all nations with a rod of iron, and that He was caught up to God, which happened nearly 2000 years ago.  So this is also the reason why many believe the first 3 1/2 years were already fulfilled, but wait just a minute.  Hold everything!  A red light is now flashing, and we should not just sweep those birth pains away.  This is where more puzzle pieces (clues) come into play.  Christ gave us many signs to watch for, so that we can be ready when He comes.  The great tribulation will begin after the abomination of desolation (Matt.24:15).  However, before He mentioned the abomination of desolation, He told us about the time of sorrows [birth pains] (Matt.24:4-14).  Many scholar’s believe the time of sorrows was already fulfilled in the 1st century, and I can see why they make a case for that, but I wholeheartedly disagree, because they are missing some puzzle pieces.  Matthew 24 was Christ’s answer about the sign of His coming, but He did not return in the 1st century, therefore none of these signs have been fulfilled.  Furthermore, the apostle Paul also left some very valuable clues about this time:
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1 Thessalonian 5:1-4 (KJV) – “But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. ² For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. ³ For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. ⁴ But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.”
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Notice that Paul said “as travail (birth pains) upon a woman with child.”  It seems that he is reminding us of the signs that Christ gave His disciples.’  But that’s not all.  Paul also included other clues, “For when they shall say, Peace and safety, then sudden destruction cometh…” (abomination of desolation).  Daniel’s 70th week will be a 7 year covenant with many, probably some sort of peace settlement in the Middle East, that will likely follow a war.  This would allow the time needed for Israel to rebuild the Temple and to resume animal sacrifices, which are both necessary if we are ever going to see the abomination of desolation.  Paul also told us that a falling away will also happen before the abomination of desolation (2 Thes. 2:1-4).  And just for good measure, there’s another reason I believe we’ll see the entire 7 years, which is a prophecy from Christ, Himself, that often gets overlooked, even though it has not yet been fulfilled:
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John 5:43 (KJV) – “I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.”
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Interestingly, it’s just weeks away from Donald Trump swearing in as the 45th president of the United States, and his predecessor, president Obama seems bent on starting a war in the Middle East that would involve Israel.  Ironically, the dispute is over Israel building housing settlements in what is known today as the West Bank, which Israel re-captured from Jordan during the 6th Day War in 1967.  But what surprises me is that in the 1st century, this disputed land was called Samaria and Judea, the very same land that Christ warned that those who live in Judea should immediately flee to the mountains when they see the abomination of desolation.  I highly doubt that Israel would ever receive anyone like Obama, but Trump could very easily become the one that Israel will receive in his own name, and it already appears that Israel can hardly wait until January 20th arrives, when Trump who supports Israel, will finally be sworn in.
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The second reason I believe this wonder/sign in heaven points to Daniel’s 70th week is because of the Lord’s appointed times.  Christ already fulfilled the Spring Feasts (Passover, Unleavened Bread, First Fruits & Pentecost) during His first Advent in the 1st century.  So I believe He will also fulfill the Fall Feasts (Feast of Trumpets, Day of Atonement & Feast of Tabernacles) when He returns, which I discussed at length in the last chapter in my book.  This tells me that He will be returning in the fall.  And knowing that He will return in the fall, and that the covenant will be seven years in duration, this leads me to believe that the seven year covenant will both, begin in the fall and end in the fall seven years later.  And if this is the case, this also tells me that the abomination of desolation will occur sometime in the middle of the seven years, during the Spring Feasts, when the son of perdition will put a stop to the daily sacrifices, and ultimately declare himself to be God.
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Daniel 9:27 (KJV) – “And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”
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2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 (KJV) – “Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, ² That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. ³ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; ⁴ Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.”
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And finally, the third reason I believe Daniel’s 70th week will very possibly begin in the fall of 2017, is because this time frame also fits in nicely with God’s Jubilee year cycle.  I can’t tell you all that happened in Israel during the Jubilee years dating back to 3500 years ago, but beginning with the Balfour Declaration in 1917, the Jews were finally allowed to begin returning back to the Holy Land for the first time since the first century, when they were scattered abroad in 70 AD.   Amazing, after being scattered in all of the nations of the earth for over 1900 years, Israel finally became a nation again in 1948!  A Jubilee year occurs every 50 years, when all debts were to be forgiven and slaves set free.  Well, fast-forward 50 years after the Balour Declaration in 1917 and we come to the year 1967, which just happens to be the year Israel re-captured the city of Jerusalem, and this city remains under Israeli control today.  And now fast-forward another 50 years from 1967, and we can expect the next Jubilee year to occur in 2017, and it will likely lead to something very significant happening as well, that relates to the nation of Israel.  After connecting all of these dots, it appears the year 2017 will be very interesting, indeed!

Remeber when Jesus said "you wicked generation you seek a sign "the only sign you will see is the sign of Johnah ( not a quote just paraphrase)?

He gave more signs though, the dead resurected when he did, the sun darkened, the earthquake tore the veil in the temple.

In first Corinthians it says. Jews demand signs and greeks look for wisdom.

In acts they called Banabas Jupitar and Paul Mercury.

This month, The solar eclipse hits the US Oregan coastline at exactly the same time the sun sets in Jerusalem. Solar eclipse will run straight over our major fault lines. Earth quakes often follow a solar eclipse. I think we are going to get shook and break off our currupt government and everything that exalts itself above God.

Then next month we have the Rev sign in the heaven. I was skeptabl be cause i didnt see Dracon (Dragon) In Play. But as soon as Jupitar leaves the womb of Vergo, Mercury will enter In To It and then we have A heavenly sign from Dracon (dragon) right on the heals of the Virgo Sign with meteor showers in Oct over the U.S.

Media is saying almost nothing about this.  But Iran and North Korea have been working together on N Koreas missle testing. Recently N Korea discovereda deposit of rare mineral used in our new technologies, China has held the market because they have a large deposit of the rare minerals. But,  N Korea's Deposit is 6 times larger then any in the world. The rare minerals are used in cell phoned, I pads are also used in missle guidence systems. N Korea recently found out they have great wealth. This is a country that has recently lost a 10th of its population to starvation and they are angry. Iran wants the rare minerals to advance its missle program they can't buy them from China. China and Russia want them to. U.S. Seems to just want to keep N Korea out of the market for now. I think the new sanctions are going to hit the world power scales like a ton of bricks.

I think the Lord is going to heal the jews blindness like he promised. the day starting in  Jerusalum at the exact time darkness hits the U.S. is not a lucky chance. 

 mercury (Paul) in the womb is maybe a sign of Gods covering the gentile church in the womb. But those not speading the gospel  but seeking wisdom instead of Christ. Are gonna get shook when that dragon swing his tail. I think dracons meteor shower is a sign the red dragon is in play. 

I think the witness to the Jews with the signs fortold is starting and the shaking of the church.

Look up and be joyful our redemption draws near.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Reinitin

[Zoltan777]

21 hours ago, Reinitin said:

Remeber when Jesus said "you wicked generation you seek a sign "the only sign you will see is the sign of Johnah ( not a quote just paraphrase)?

He gave more signs though, the dead resurected when he did, the sun darkened, the earthquake tore the veil in the temple.

In first Corinthians it says. Jews demand signs and greeks look for wisdom.

In acts they called Banabas Jupitar and Paul Mercury.

This month, The solar eclipse hits the US Oregan coastline at exactly the same time the sun sets in Jerusalem. Solar eclipse will run straight over our major fault lines. Earth quakes often follow a solar eclipse. I think we are going to get shook and break off our currupt government and everything that exalts itself above God.

Then next month we have the Rev sign in the heaven. I was skeptabl be cause i didnt see Dracon (Dragon) In Play. But as soon as Jupitar leaves the womb of Vergo, Mercury will enter In To It and then we have A heavenly sign from Dracon (dragon) right on the heals of the Virgo Sign with meteor showers in Oct over the U.S.

Media is saying almost nothing about this.  But Iran and North Korea have been working together on N Koreas missle testing. Recently N Korea discovereda deposit of rare mineral used in our new technologies, China has held the market because they have a large deposit of the rare minerals. But,  N Korea's Deposit is 6 times larger then any in the world. The rare minerals are used in cell phoned, I pads are also used in missle guidence systems. N Korea recently found out they have great wealth. This is a country that has recently lost a 10th of its population to starvation and they are angry. Iran wants the rare minerals to advance its missle program they can't buy them from China. China and Russia want them to. U.S. Seems to just want to keep N Korea out of the market for now. I think the new sanctions are going to hit the world power scales like a ton of bricks.

I think the Lord is going to heal the jews blindness like he promised. the day starting in  Jerusalum at the exact time darkness hits the U.S. is not a lucky chance. 

 mercury (Paul) in the womb is maybe a sign of Gods covering the gentile church in the womb. But those not speading the gospel  but seeking wisdom instead of Christ. Are gonna get shook when that dragon swing his tail. I think dracons meteor shower is a sign the red dragon is in play. 

I think the witness to the Jews with the signs fortold is starting and the shaking of the church.

Look up and be joyful our redemption draws near.

I didn't know about the meteor shower and Dracon. I don't think it can be denied anymore that the prophetic signs in rev 13 will be fulfilled soon. 

I was thinking of what you said and I had same strange thoughts after that. 

Firstly, I don't think the war would break up YET. It's too early. Some claims that rapture will take place. I don't think so, as Jesus said His bride the church will be perfect and and flawless. Like a virgin. Well...at the moment we as a church are not like that.

But when you mentioned Paul and Barnabas as Jupiter and Mercury the two witnesses popped in my mind. I don't know what will happen after this event but I lean to believe that some persons as a spiritual gifts appear like Paul and Barnabas to start collecting God's sheep and preach the gospel and His coming.

Also, before I found out this celestial event I had a dream about it (about a month or so). In the sky a woman was giving birth. Around her was many angels shouting 'Come on America you can do it.' Then I heard God's voice above me saying 'I will reveal my plan when the two witnesses are appointed.' I am still very confused. Something happening in the second heaven that's for sure which will change this world.

One more thing, a solar eclipse will happen again 7 year later on April 8, 2024. over America.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Zoltan777

[Reinitin]

28 minutes ago, Zoltan777 said:

I didn't know about the meteor shower and Dracon. I don't think it can be denied anymore that the prophetic signs in rev 13 will be fulfilled soon. 

I was thinking of what you said and I had same strange thoughts after that. 

Firstly, I don't think the war would break up YET. It's too early. Some claims that rapture will take place. I don't think so, as Jesus said His bride the church will be perfect and and flawless. Like a virgin. Well...at the moment we as a church are not like that.

But when you mentioned Paul and Barnabas as Jupiter and Mercury the two witnesses popped in my mind. I don't know what will happen after this event but I lean to believe that some persons as a spiritual gifts appear like Paul and Barnabas to start collecting God's sheep and preach the gospel and His coming.

Also, before I found out this celestial event I had a dream about it (about a month or so). In the sky a woman was giving birth. Around her was many angels shouting 'Come on America you can do it.' Then I heard God's voice above me saying 'I will reveal my plan when the two witnesses are appointed.' I am still very confused. Something happening in the second heaven that's for sure which will change this world.

One more thing, a solar eclipse will happen again 7 year later on April 8, 2024. over America.

Im just saying what the signs look like to me. we are getting close to unbelief. I dont think its the start of a nuke war. N Korea has 2 low level satalite that are capable of hiting us with an Emp twice every single day. there was a report that came out, then it was buried under the obama administration and not addressed. Emp can put our country in darkness literly. I kinda wonder if Trump even knows? you think they would already be gone if he knew.

[Diaste]

On 8/13/2017 at 7:20 AM, Revelation Man said:

Not that I care, but switching bibles per certain words really makes no sense. I still with the KJV or Holman no matter what, if I need to explain the Translation I do. Its no big deal, but I don't understand why people do ot.

NOW....Your two scriptures here are kind of like Eves confusion in the Garden of Eden when Satan told her, "You will no surely die" which was a Half Truth. You see, the Angels AND the Church comes with Jesus Christ. So of course 2 Thess. 1 is correct, but it does not a think to change the fact I stated, Rev. 19 can not be TRUE unless the Church is RAPTURED. Its not that complicated.

Revelation 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready 8 And to her(CHURCH) was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the FINE LINEN is the righteousness of SAINTS 9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

{{{ OK, There are MUCH PEOPLE in heaven, and then we see the Marriage of the Lamb to his Bride (Church) takes place. She is given WHITE ROBES that stand for her Righteousness as SAINTS !! THIS IS THE CHURCH. Then we are told that Blessed are those who are CALLED to the Marriage Supper (REMEMBER THAT). So the Church is in Heaven, Marrying the Lamb and awaiting the Marriage Supper, lets see what happens Next. }}}

10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. 11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True (JESUS), and in righteousness he doth judge and make war 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. (See verse 8, the Fine White Linen signifies a SAINT of God.)

{{{ The Church returns with Jesus Christ FROM HEAVEN, to Earth, where the Anti-Christ his Kings and their Armies are STILL ON EARTH, After the Rapture !!!! (SEE BELOW). So the Rapture happens well before the Second Coming. Its Elementary in reality, if we follow the scriptures instead of the "Traditions of men". Lets finish this up. }}}

Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven (CHURCH), Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God. 18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. 19 And I saw the (BEAST Still Alive), and the kings of the earth, and their armies (Still Alive after the Church comes back with Jesus From Heaven), gathered together to make war against him(JESUS) that sat on the horse, and against his army(CHURCH/Angels). 20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet (Two Men) that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone (Same as Daniel 7:11). 21 And the remnant were slain with the sword(Holy Spirit) of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

{{{ OK, we have the Marriage Supper happening here, of course the "MARRIAGE SUPPER" is those killed at Armageddon. If you read Matthew 24:28 properly you will understand what Jesus meant about where the Carcass is there the Eagles (fowls) will be Gathered. He was speaking about the Second Coming, IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Tribulation, and that happens with the Church in tow, as Rev. ch. 19 clearly shows us, if we just read the plain text as written. So the Beast/Kings/Armies are still on Earth while the Church is in Heaven Marrying the Lamb (Jesus). The Battle of Armageddon is fought after the Saints return from Heave on White Horses with Jesus, so there has to be a PRE-TRIBULATION Rapture. Then the Marriage Supper is served, the flesh of the wicked men on earth is our glorious feast. Then the Beast and False Prophet are cast into hell, and their Armies are killed, to be Judged in 1000 years. Now disprove anything I stated with scriptures, it can't be done. }}}

Just to be crystal clear on your points I Skipped over, trying to prove the Church isn't in heaven (unsuccessfully) what the very first verse in Rev. 19 says.........THERE WAS MUCH PEOPLE IN HEAVEN !!

I never said the church wasn't in heaven at this point. It has to be. What I'm saying is Jesus is coming with an army of ANGELS, not saints. The saints stay in heaven, as they were just translated from earth to heaven, and The Lord and his armies of angels go forth to battle. You make no sense at all. You suppose Jesus is going to take his bride to battle the devil and his armies? What is wrong with you?

Now, on to these points of emphasis above.

The Beginning of Sorrows happens after 70 AD and before the Tribulation begins and before the Rapture. Matthew 24:14 says the Word must be preached unto all the World, then end will come, so the "Sorrows" is not nor can it start during the Tribulation, but well before. Of course you might have meant that. So the Sorrows to begin first but not during the Tribulation.

1. Sorrows Begin just before the Disciples are Killed See verses 8 and 9.

2. The Tribulation is a Seven Year Period called Jacobs Troubles. Its the last of the 70 Weeks Decree/Judgment. The "Greatest Troubles" do come just after the Abomination of Desolation, but that is not the "Great Tribulation" as mentioned by John in Rev. ch. 7, the Great Tribulation is a 2000 year period of Tribulation that the Church went through. 2000 years is FAR GREATER than 7 years, although the GREATEST TROUBLES EVER happen in the Last 7 years or even the last 3.5 Years. 

3. Israel REPENTS (As a Nation, not all Jews) just after the Two-Witnesses are sent forth before the AoD. 

4. The Abomination of Desolation, The Day of the Lord and the Wrath of God all have one and the Same starting point, as a matter of fact the DOTL and Gods Wrath are the same thing. Gods Wrath begins with the Opening of the Seals, of course.

5. Then Jesus comes at the End, via the 6th Vial which Gathers the Nations unto Armageddon. Then the Seventh Via is poured out, Jesus lands on the Mt of Olives, thus the great EARTHQUAKE in Rev. 16:19. 

You completely miss....well everything. 

2 Thessalonians 1:7

And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels

 

 

 

 

[Reinitin]

4 hours ago, Zoltan777 said:

I didn't know about the meteor shower and Dracon. I don't think it can be denied anymore that the prophetic signs in rev 13 will be fulfilled soon. 

I was thinking of what you said and I had same strange thoughts after that. 

Firstly, I don't think the war would break up YET. It's too early. Some claims that rapture will take place. I don't think so, as Jesus said His bride the church will be perfect and and flawless. Like a virgin. Well...at the moment we as a church are not like that.

But when you mentioned Paul and Barnabas as Jupiter and Mercury the two witnesses popped in my mind. I don't know what will happen after this event but I lean to believe that some persons as a spiritual gifts appear like Paul and Barnabas to start collecting God's sheep and preach the gospel and His coming.

Also, before I found out this celestial event I had a dream about it (about a month or so). In the sky a woman was giving birth. Around her was many angels shouting 'Come on America you can do it.' Then I heard God's voice above me saying 'I will reveal my plan when the two witnesses are appointed.' I am still very confused. Something happening in the second heaven that's for sure which will change this world.

One more thing, a solar eclipse will happen again 7 year later on April 8, 2024. over America.

the dragon is part of the sign in heaven if the dragon isnt present even with 12 stars at her head and sun cloke and king planet in Virgo's womb 42 weeks. if the dragon (Dracon) isnt in place its is no more the rev 12 sign then if she had 10 stars as a crown or the sun wasnt near virgo.