Danger Noodle Posted March 28, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 573 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/27/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted March 28, 2017 I'll share this as I did when this issue of unclean babies and children was broached in a wholly different discussion elsewhere in the community. Hopefully it will lead those who are concerned about babies souls entering Hell to the truth of our Father's words. Jesus told his followers that we must become like little children in order to enter the kingdom of heaven. What a strange truth if God would send little children to Hell. The souls of babies return to the Father who knew them before he knitted them together in their mother's womb. That too is in scripture. Take comfort in the truth of our Father and his word. UNCLEAN CHILDREN? Tuesday May 20th, 2008 About 2 Minutes to Read Q I pulled this from an article and it got me thinking… Q “The Bible plainly says that every child living in a home where neither parent is saved – under the protection of the blood – is automatically rendered unclean. Apostle Paul said it clearly, “For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy” (I Corinthians 7:14). So then a child of 2 unbelievers is “unclean” and may not go in the Rapture because the parents make the children holy? Your thoughts on this? A A I know this writer and appreciate his position. But his view of 1 Cor. 7:14 conflicts with another of Paul’s statements about having eternal life before reaching the age of accountability. (Romans 7:9) It also conflicts with the Lord’s claim that every child has a guardian angel (Matt. 18:10). Therefore 1 Cor. 7:14 has to be talking about something else. Sure enough a close look reveals that 1 Cor. 7:12-16 is speaking of the legitimacy of a mixed marriage in God’s sight. If either parent is a believer then God considers both the marriage and the offspring therefrom legitimate. That’s why Paul said that the believer couldn’t divorce an unbelieving spouse. However, if the unbeliever leaves then the believer is freed from any further obligation to the marriage. So Paul wasn’t talking about whether the children are saved. He was talking about their status in God’s eyes as legitimate offspring of the marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonky Posted March 30, 2017 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 6 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 738 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 346 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/28/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) On 3/28/2017 at 11:01 AM, John Robinson said: An infant burning forever in a blast furnace. Nice. That's not the God I serve. I find this conversation odd. I guess I've been away from this kind of thing for so long. Many here are so appalled at the idea of a baby being tossed into a "blast furnace" but you're ok with an adult?? I think if you really let that sink in for a minute it doesn't make sense. Whatever happened to God is just and who are we to question? Edited March 30, 2017 by Bonky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Robinson Posted March 30, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 903 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 516 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/01/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/03/1952 Share Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) The thing is, Bonky, adults go there of their own accord; God doesn't "send" them, they're drawn there like a magnet because they won't do the one thing that will change their polarity. Babies, on the other hand--and the feeble-minded for that matter--don't know any better, and I believe God takes that into account. Or as Mark Twain (an atheist, as I used to be) put it, "It ain't those parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me, it's the parts that I do." Edited March 30, 2017 by John Robinson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonky Posted March 30, 2017 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 6 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 738 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 346 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/28/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, John Robinson said: The thing is, Bonky, adults go there of their own accord; God doesn't "send" them, they're drawn there like a magnet because they won't do the one thing that will change their polarity. Babies, on the other hand--and the feeble-minded for that matter--don't know any better, and I believe God takes that into account. Or as Mark Twain (an atheist, as I used to be) put it, "It ain't those parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me, it's the parts that I do." I'm sure the Muslims feel the same way about you and I. I think it's absurd that people should be tortured forever because they lived a human life and didn't believe in whatever religion. From this thread I can see that some believers have a conscience about these matters, that's refreshing to see. Edited March 30, 2017 by Bonky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted March 30, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted March 30, 2017 5 hours ago, Bonky said: I find this conversation odd. I guess I've been away from this kind of thing for so long. Many here are so appalled at the idea of a baby being tossed into a "blast furnace" but you're ok with an adult?? I think if you really let that sink in for a minute it doesn't make sense. Whatever happened to God is just and who are we to question? YHWH is perfect, righteous and only uses perfect judgment , always, eternally. No exception. The thought , idea, concept, or doctrine of "a blast furnace" burning without ever stopping/ending might be a carry-over from greek and pagan religions. The more someone studies ancient HEBREW, and YHWH'S WORD, the more mercy found in YHWH'S PLAN and PURPOSE of SALVATION in Y'SHUA, as well as PERFECT JUDGMENT. Since the whole world is under a death sentence, consigned under sin one and all, and since only those who are saved through Y'SHUA MESSIAH, YHWH'S PLAN and YHWH'S SALVATION (YHWH'S WAY, not man's) , only a few ever make it (comparatively). The others don't have to do anything else or anything different - even YHWH gives up on them eventually, by their own choice, when HE finally gives them over to believe what they want to believe, self-deceived the rest of their lives, if they don't repent by some miracle of YHWH'S GRACE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Noodle Posted March 31, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 573 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/27/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) On 3/28/2017 at 11:01 AM, John Robinson said: An infant burning forever in a blast furnace. Nice. That's not the God I serve. And that is because the God you and I serve would do no such thing. It is not in our Father's word that such is the fate for an infant. The Bible tells us people are condemned to Hell, the blast furnace, for their sins and for rejecting Jesus. As the Christian knows infants cannot reject Jesus. And they are not accountable as sinners yet because they do not possess the conscious awareness of good and evil, obedience and disobedience. They're infants. And they as infants are not able to consciously accept Jesus as their savior nor consciously reject Jesus as their savior. Nor are children able until they reach the age of accountability when their behaviors, sins, are then able to be counted as sins. And the scripture does not say at what age is the age of accountability. Wisely so being children's consciousness develops at unique times in each child. Quote Moreover, your little ones who you said would become a prey, and your sons, who this day have no knowledge of good or evil, shall enter there, and I will give it to them and they shall possess it. (Deuteronomy 1:39) Jesus himself told us that babies, children, enter into heaven. Because he in his parables told his adult disciples and those who followed his ministry that they must become like children in order to see heaven. If adults were told to become like children to see heaven, are we to accept the argument that insists babies and children can go to Hell? Who has more authority in the matter? Our Father in heaven and his only begotten son Jesus? Or, those who opine such things without scriptural evidence? When scriptural evidence to the contrary exists and from our Lord himself. Quote And He called a child to Himself and set him before them, and said, "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 18:2-3) Then some children were brought to Him so that He might lay His hands on them and pray; and the disciples rebuked them. But Jesus said, "Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these." (Matthew 19:13-14) Edited March 31, 2017 by Danger Noodle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4LdKHVCzRDj2 Posted March 31, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 17 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,453 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 1,453 Days Won: 6 Joined: 11/02/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/23/1991 Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) On 3/27/2017 at 5:56 PM, Jewels7 said: I think people that believe babies go to Hell are already made up in their own minds. There is a passage in the Bible where God clearly absolve children: "Moreover your little ones and your children, who you say will be victims, who today have no knowledge of good and evil, they shall go in there; to them I will give it, and they shall possess it." - Deuteronomy 1:39 And their children possessed and lived in the promised land. I know He was not talking about hell in that context, but it makes you think. Edited March 31, 2017 by 4LdKHVCzRDj2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Noodle Posted March 31, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 573 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/27/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted March 31, 2017 I think reading all of Deuteronomy 1 helps to put verse 39 into context as for God's respect for children. I sought an article that pertains to this same discussion that also has scripture references to support the topic question , do infants and children go to heaven? This may offer insight that hasn't yet been entered into our talks here as yet. Evidence for God from Science: Christian Apologetics What happens to Infants and Children Who Die? Do Babies Go To Heaven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 On 3/27/2017 at 8:50 PM, JohnD said: If this offended you, I am sorry. But to assume all babies go to heaven who die in infancy must be aware of the logical conclusions. The bible says: John 3:16–18 (AV) 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. You say "reject" as if one must have some guaranteed opportunity to accept or reject. Sir, the Bible says believe / unbelief. And that the condemnation is ALREADY determined / established / true. It would be more logical to say all babies don't go to heaven if they die before believing in Jesus Christ. That is a complete misuse of that passage. The point in v. 18 is that those who have either rejected the Gospel stand already condemned by God. There is a condemnation that hangs over the heads of those who do not believe. Paul says a similar thing in Romans 1:18. for the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. The verb there for “revealed” is in a present, continuous mode. There is a two-fold aspect to this judgment. Jesus as Jesus accomplished our salvation on the cross, but will finish it when he returns, there is judgment resting on those who do not believe, and that judgment will be fully realized when Jesus returns. Quote God foreknew all who would believe. The same way he provided for the believers before the cross he has provided for people who will believe but who die before they believe... If I offended you (say you lost a baby) I am sorry I was not minimizing your grief. I don't know how people can get through such a tragedy! But take heart! They have just as much chance of being a believer as they would have had they survived. Don't you see? God's biblical assurances are far better than people's mantras or slogans or wishful thinking. Romans 8:29 (AV) 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Sir, I hope you see there is a much more solid foundation in God's way than man's. My absurd example about abortion was hopefully so absurd everyone would know that it was intended to prove the point that ALL babies who die cannot possibly go to heaven but the Omniscient God knew before time began who would believe in his dear Son and that really matters to him!!!!!!!! 1 Corinthians 2:7 2 Timothy 1:9 Titus 1:2 Depending on which translation you use all speak of God figuring things out before time began. So the basic argument you are making here is that God knows which babies would grow to believers and which ones will not and so the ones who He knows will not, He just dispatches them to hell. The Scriptures you string together simply don't make the case you're trying to make. First of all predestination has nothing to do with who will not be saved. God doesn't predestine anyone to go to hell. Hell is the consequence of rejecting Christ, not the predetermined destiny of some people. Every time predestination is used in Scripture it applies to what God has predestined for Christians to become, not who will become Christians. Predestination applies to God's plans for our sanctification in this life and our eventual conformity into the image of Christ. And that is exactly what Rom. 8:29 says. Babies simply don't go Hell because God has not predestined any person to Hell and children are held in innocence until they can respond to the convicting power of the Holy Spirit and make a conscious decision for Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted March 31, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 904 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,642 Content Per Day: 2.03 Reputation: 5,828 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted March 31, 2017 So... John 14:6 (AV) 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Means nothing to you? I suppose I completely misused this passage as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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