OneLight Posted April 8, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted April 8, 2017 19 minutes ago, simplejeff said: No. Souls did not have life, did not exist, until YHWH 'sparked' (gave) life at conception to them, according to all SCRIPTURE. I never said anything about a soul. I was speaking before God formed us in the womb that God knew us. Since there is no other scripture about this, all we have to go on, that I could find, was when He spoke to Jeremiah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted April 8, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted April 8, 2017 There are several (it seems) heresies thoroughly exposed online (a search may turn up readily, it is not a new thing) that falsely claim what they call "pre-existence" which is directly opposed to and contrary to GOD'S WORD. Like a lot of new age and other heresies, (like wife of Jesus or mother of god schools ) it was not ever considered "true" by the faithful churches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unfailing Presence Posted April 9, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 649 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 170 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/26/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 9, 2017 (edited) 10 hours ago, woundeddog said: no I didn't.- I stated "age of accountability"- that of course is infants- but also includes those who have no real knowledge or concept of sin I'm just not seeing where you reconciled your " no matter what age they died " statement in your opening post with an age of accountability somewhere between infancy and old age ? By my understanding " no matter what age they died " excludes the entire need for of an age of accountability . What need would there be for an" age of accountability " if " no matter what age they died " they were covered ? Edited April 9, 2017 by Unfailing Presence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted April 9, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted April 9, 2017 2 hours ago, simplejeff said: There are several (it seems) heresies thoroughly exposed online (a search may turn up readily, it is not a new thing) that falsely claim what they call "pre-existence" which is directly opposed to and contrary to GOD'S WORD. Like a lot of new age and other heresies, (like wife of Jesus or mother of god schools ) it was not ever considered "true" by the faithful churches. My thoughts were nothing I have read anywhere, just something that came to me when holding a new born baby right out of the womb. You can see how pure they are, unaffected by the world as if they just came from God Himself. "Pre-existance" is not mentioned in scripture at all, pro or con. I can be mistaken, if you would care to show me where in scripture this can be found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woundeddog Posted April 9, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,370 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 1,054 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/21/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/18/1868 Author Share Posted April 9, 2017 4 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said: I'm just not seeing where you reconciled your " no matter what age they died " Okay- I see now- I did not understand what you meant~~~~ I am saying that if a person is known by God to be headed to heaven--- (hypothetically) it would not matter what age they died at, they would still go to heaven--now of course we cant pick and choose when we depart this plain-- and when our body dies is when it dies--- but there are goats and sheep--- goats don't go to heaven- sheep do-- (free will issues?) some sheep just don't know they are sheep yet they may temporarily be lost sheep-- but ultimately the Shepard brings them home-- I know some folks will call me a heretical Calvinist-- but I believe that if God knows who is going to heaven-- they will go to heaven-- if their time of death could be moved back and forth along their time line, it would not change their destination for eternity~~~~~~ I don't know- does that clarify what I was saying , or just confuse it??~~~~~ I don't think age of accountability really enters it at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unfailing Presence Posted April 9, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 649 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 170 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/26/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 9, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, woundeddog said: .......and when our body dies is when it dies--- but there are goats and sheep--- goats don't go to heaven- I don't think age of accountability really enters it at all But if the understanding is that there are no infant " goats " , that would be exempted from heaven should they die in infancy , then what would cause an infant who lives past infancy into adulthood to become a " goat " ? Some change has to occur in between the time they were infants and were certain to go to heaven should they die in infancy , and the time they aged long enough to become " goat " or a " sheep " ? My understanding is that this change is the " age of accountability " is reached . And the personal decision to be a sheep or a goat is made at that time . If you don't think the " age of accountability " is the determining factor that makes an adult person who was at one time an infant certain to go to heaven if they died a " goat " or a "sheep " exactly what is it believe causes them to become a " goat " or " sheep " in adulthood ? All infants being " sheep" the understanding . Edited April 9, 2017 by Unfailing Presence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woundeddog Posted April 9, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,370 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 1,054 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/21/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/18/1868 Author Share Posted April 9, 2017 1 hour ago, Unfailing Presence said: But if the understanding is that there are no infant " goats " , that would be exempted from heaven should they die in infancy , then what would cause an infant who lives past infancy into adulthood to become a " goat " ? I know this is a hard one-- let me try again. Although all infants and mentally infirm are "safe" all infants that die as babies go to heaven------- BUT if an infant grows past age of accountability, and choose to sin, they are no longer "safe" but are accountable--- God knows who will and who will not come to faith. All who will come to faith in their lives are Sheep, all who will not are goats.. A baby that dies in infancy is in Gods eyes a Sheep--- if they had grown up they would still be sheep. A baby the grows past infancy that never come to faith is in Gods eyes a Goat-- the baby is a goat in infancy but grows into and adult goat- because they were never part of Gods flock to start with. Our Human race is really only divided into two sub-races-- sheep and goats-- sheep always go to heaven-- goats never go to heaven. Sheep go to heaven because of faith in Jesus finished work for them- and infant that can not come to the faith by tem selves has imputed faith because God is merciful and as faith for them. Now- a baby goat ( if they died in infancy would go to heaven), but since they grow to adult hood and never come to faith-- do not go to heaven. so pre-accountability death always makes a person a sheep. Is that any better??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Noodle Posted April 9, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 573 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/27/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 9, 2017 22 hours ago, simplejeff said: No. Souls did not have life, did not exist, until YHWH 'sparked' (gave) life at conception to them, according to all SCRIPTURE. All scripture? Let's see. Genesis 2:7 And Jehovah Elohim formed Man, dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and Man became a living soul. Question: "What is the breath of life?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unfailing Presence Posted April 9, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 649 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 170 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/26/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 9, 2017 9 hours ago, woundeddog said: I know this is a hard one-- let me try again. Although all infants and mentally infirm are "safe" all infants that die as babies go to heaven------- BUT if an infant grows past age of accountability, and choose to sin, they are no longer "safe" but are accountable--- God knows who will and who will not come to faith. All who will come to faith in their lives are Sheep, all who will not are goats.. A baby that dies in infancy is in Gods eyes a Sheep--- if they had grown up they would still be sheep. A baby the grows past infancy that never come to faith is in Gods eyes a Goat-- the baby is a goat in infancy but grows into and adult goat- because they were never part of Gods flock to start with. Our Human race is really only divided into two sub-races-- sheep and goats-- sheep always go to heaven-- goats never go to heaven. Sheep go to heaven because of faith in Jesus finished work for them- and infant that can not come to the faith by tem selves has imputed faith because God is merciful and as faith for them. Now- a baby goat ( if they died in infancy would go to heaven), but since they grow to adult hood and never come to faith-- do not go to heaven. so pre-accountability death always makes a person a sheep. Is that any better??? I think my conclusion is the same as yours, and thus only the original question comes into question . " Does Satan Know ..?" I would say no . The scripture gives us information repeatedly that Satan's desire for evil , far exceeds any thoughtful insight . I mean what kind of brain fart would cause you to rebel against God Himself in the first place ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woundeddog Posted April 10, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,370 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 1,054 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/21/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/18/1868 Author Share Posted April 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Unfailing Presence said: " Does Satan Know ..?" no, I agree he didnt know in advance-- but I'll bet he figured it out along the way- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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