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9/23/17, Rev 12:5, X etc..


Heb 13:8

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1 hour ago, wingnut- said:

Jude 1:9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” Always in a position of defending God's people, it would appear to me that is what the archangels do, wouldn't you agree

We go up to heaven, Satan comes down to earth.

Rev 12:5  She gave birth to a son (huios Jesus Christ himself), a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child (teknon the church) was snatched up (harpazo) to God and to his throne.

Rev 12:7-9 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

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In regards to the 7 years of darkness, just prior to the bowl that plunges the beasts kingdom into darkness you have this bowl, which again contradicts the idea of 7 years of darkness.

Well, not really. The Day of the Lord doesn't start at the 5th bowl. That is silly. The Day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night to nonbelievers. The term "thief" is describing the rapture event. Also notice that 1 Thess 5:3 mentions a pregnant woman. Israel is five months pregnant right now with the body of Christ as we speak. Are you awake or asleep?

Matt 24:40-43 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. 42“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 

1 Thess 5:1-4 Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. 4But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.

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The Day of the Lord is the very day that Jesus speaks of in Matthew 24, at His coming.

Right, and His coming includes rapture which is the first event that kicks off the Day of the Lord.

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So the two witnesses are here for how long?  1260 days.  They are here for the last half of the 7 years,

No, they are here for the first half of the 7 years. Many events happen in Rev 11:7-13. I don't think Jesus is going to allow these things when He lands on the Mt of Olives at the end of the 70th week. The time line fits better when their ministry ends at the abomination of desolation. Check out Steve's time line, it fits perfectly.. http://www.heavenlysign2017.com

1. The beast kills the two witnesses
2. The world refuses them burial, and they gloat over their bodies
3. 3.5 days later they're raptured to heaven
4. 7,000 people die in a severe earthquake.

Question: If the 1-4 events occurs at the end of the 7 years, then why are the two witnesses being raptured to heaven at the same time Jesus and His army are both coming back down from heaven? :rolleyes:

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41 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:


Question: If the 1-4 events occurs at the end of the 7 years, then why are the two witnesses being raptured to heaven at the same time Jesus and His army are both coming back down from heaven? :rolleyes:

 

I would suggest tossing Steve's timeline in the garbage and concentrating on the bible's timeline.  Start with the three woes, you are told when they occur right here.
 

Revelation 8:13 As I watched, I heard an eagle that was flying in midair call out in a loud voice: “Woe! Woe! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the trumpet blasts about to be sounded by the other three angels!”

 

Three woes, three angels, three trumpets.  5th, 6th, and 7th trumpets.  You can always refer back to my last post to see where they are, but they are attached to the last three trumpets as the above verse clearly states.  Scripture doesn't say those who are alive and remain go to heaven, it says they meet Him in the air.  The two witnesses died 3 days prior, so they are already dead and follow Him out of heaven.  The dead in Christ rise first my friend, think about what that means in relation to spiritual bodies. ;)

God bless

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10 hours ago, wingnut- said:

I would suggest tossing Steve's timeline in the garbage and concentrating on the bible's timeline. 

 :rolleyes:

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Scripture doesn't say those who are alive and remain go to heaven, it says they meet Him in the air.

Where do you think God's throne is in Rev 12:5? :rolleyes: 

Rev 4:2-4 At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it. 3And the one who sat there had the appearance of jasper and ruby. A rainbow that shone like an emerald encircled the throne. 4Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty-four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads.

Rev 4:9 Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever, 10the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:

Rev 5:13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!”

Rev 7:9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.” 11All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God,

Rev 12:5 She gave birth to a son (huios Jesus Christ himself), a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child (teknon the church) was snatched up (harpazo) to God and to his throne.

Rev 19:1-5 After this I heard what sounded like the roar of a great multitude in heaven shouting: “Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God, 2for true and just are his judgments. He has condemned the great prostitute who corrupted the earth by her adulteries. He has avenged on her the blood of his servants.” 3And again they shouted: “Hallelujah! The smoke from her goes up for ever and ever.” 4The twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God, who was seated on the throne. And they cried: “Amen, Hallelujah!” 5Then a voice came from the throne, saying: “Praise our God, all you his servants, you who fear him, both great and small!”

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30 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

 Where do you think God's throne is in Rev 12:5? :rolleyes: 
 

 

God's throne is in heaven, I have never suggested it is anywhere else.  You are aware that there is more than one layer of heaven aren't you?  If not Retrobyter has given some really nice explanations of that in the past, you should  take a look at them.  God's throne is found in the highest level.  The sky you look up and see with your eyes is the lowest level of the heavens, which is what Matthew and Paul are speaking of when they say the living will meet Him in the air or are gathered in the clouds.  You can see the clouds in the sky right?  You can't see God's throne though can you?

 

As to the great multitude, first you have to acknowledge this part.

 

Revelation 6:9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

 

Their souls are in heaven, they are dead, or asleep if you prefer.  They are given their white robes here and told to wait until other believers are killed as they were.

 

Revelation 7:9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands,

 

The number of dead people has grown because other believers have been killed during the war against the saints.

 

Revelation 7:13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”

14 And I said to him, “Sir, you know.”

So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 

Same group, refer back to the fifth seal, these are the ones who are killed for the word of God and the testimony they maintained.  Dead people, still not in their spiritual bodies, they are souls.  All of these believers will follow Him out of heaven because they are already dead, but those who are alive and remain meet Him in the air, in the clouds.

God bless

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Heb 13:8 said:

 Where do you think God's throne is in Rev 12:5? :rolleyes:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Lucifer tried to invade heaven and dethrone God,

Isiah 14: 12, How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!


    13, For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:


    14, I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

God like lightening cast him back to the earth, Luke 10:18, And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Psalms 75: 6-7, For promotion cometh neither from the east, nor from the west, nor from the south.


    7, But God is the judge: he putteth down one, and setteth up another.

God's throne is in the Northern hemisphere, so far out we cannot see it.

Heaven is a created place (Genesis 1:1), "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

There are three heavens beside the Heaven where God now lives.

Where God lived before He created the HEAVENS  is not mentioned in Scripture so its a waste of time debating this.

Beside the Heaven where God now dwells (Gen. 21:17; 22:11,15 : 2 Cor. 12:1-3; Deut. 26:15; 1 Kings 8:30), there are two other spheres called heaven.


Paul speaks of three heavens (2 Cor. 12:1-3). The third heaven is here called Paradise where God lives.

The other two heavens are the clouds(Gen, 1;8; 7:23; 8:2; Job 38:9, 34; Isa. 14:14; Jer. 51:16), and the starry space between the Earth, and the Heaven where God lives, (Gen. 1:15-20; 22:17; Isa. 14:12-14; Ps. 8:3).
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5 hours ago, wingnut- said:

God's throne is in heaven, I have never suggested it is anywhere else.

Right, and the word "harpazo" is in both 1 Thess 4:17 and Rev 12:5. The word "teknon" is for us, the church. It's time to wake up! Rev 3:3.

1 Thess 4:13-17 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up (harpazo) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
 

Rev 12:1-5 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman (Israel) clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.   2  She (Israel) was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.   3  Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon (Satan) with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads.   4  Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon (Satan) stood in front of the woman (Israel) who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child (teknon the church) the moment he was born.   5  She gave birth to a son (huios Jesus Christ himself), a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child (teknon the church) was snatched up (harpazo) to God and to his throne.
 

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which is what Matthew and Paul are speaking of when they say the living will meet Him in the air or are gathered in the clouds.

The living and the dead meet together in the air and then to God's throne.
Notice Rev 12:5 says "was snatched up (harpazo) to God and to his throne."
Meaning.. "to God (in the air) and to his throne (in heaven)".
Also notice the word "and".. was snatched up (harpazo) to God and to his throne.
Scripture is clearly making a distinction between the air and the throne.

1 Thess 4:13-17 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up (harpazo) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
 

Rev 12:1-5 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman (Israel) clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.   2  She (Israel) was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.   3  Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon (Satan) with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads.   4  Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon (Satan) stood in front of the woman (Israel) who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child (teknon the church) the moment he was born.   5  She gave birth to a son (huios Jesus Christ himself), a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child (teknon the church) was snatched up (harpazo) to God and to his throne.
 

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As to the great multitude, first you have to acknowledge this part.

The great multitude is the body of Christ raptured. Only in heaven will we be wearing white robes surrounded by angels upon angels.

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23 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

Heb 13:8 said:

 Where do you think God's throne is in Rev 12:5? :rolleyes:

Hello Hazard. What are your thoughts on Rev 12:1-5 coming to pass on 9/23/17.

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8 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Hello Hazard. What are your thoughts on Rev 12:1-5 coming to pass on 9/23/17.

https://days.to/23-september/2017.  

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3 minutes ago, other one said:

??

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