cherubim Posted March 25, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 3 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 267 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 372 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/26/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted March 25, 2017 I have a question that I have struggled with for a long time. In The Old Testament psalms, David prayed for judgment on his enemies - the "Imprecatory Psalms" - then Christ said to "love your enemies, pray for those who use and persecute you." When someone does something despicable to you - how are you supposed to know whether to pray for God's judgment on them, or pray *for* them? I'm a long time Christian and this still stumps me. I have seen people get away with atrocities, and do not appear to have gotten repaid for the evil they did. Even when Christ said to pray for your enemies, he didn't say specifically *what* to pray. Has anyone else stumbled with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted March 25, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 25, 2017 When someone pulls a verse out of context, they can make it sound like almost anything they wish, In your case, you negelect the context in which you foudn the verse. Here it is in its fullness. Matthew 5:43-48 You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted March 25, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 185 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,224 Content Per Day: 3.34 Reputation: 16,647 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted March 25, 2017 People will be judged for their works in the end and unless they repent they will burn in hell. But our job is to forgive. By that I mean to allow Christ in us to forgive the unforgivable, since he hung on a cross and prayed "Father, forgive them, they know not what they do". That same Spirit lives within us when we receive Christ and are born again. What is humanly impossible for us to do, He can do through us and in us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BacKaran Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 I was scammed by "friend said" who claimed to have been born again... No, they purposely targeted me cuz i was a widow. I forgive them even after winning in court, which they owed me a bunch, I let it go cuz I didn't want their drama in my life for the next two years while they made late payments to me. They stole the money from God, not me so I've prayed for their repentance but they've continued on to scam others. Move on and let God deal with them.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delade3 Posted March 27, 2017 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 179 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 78 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/05/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted March 27, 2017 On 3/25/2017 at 5:19 AM, cherubim said: I have a question that I have struggled with for a long time. In The Old Testament psalms, David prayed for judgment on his enemies - the "Imprecatory Psalms" - then Christ said to "love your enemies, pray for those who use and persecute you." When someone does something despicable to you - how are you supposed to know whether to pray for God's judgment on them, or pray *for* them? I'm a long time Christian and this still stumps me. I have seen people get away with atrocities, and do not appear to have gotten repaid for the evil they did. Even when Christ said to pray for your enemies, he didn't say specifically *what* to pray. Has anyone else stumbled with this? Our Father who art in Heaven... Hallowed be Thy Name. Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherubim Posted March 27, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 3 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 267 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 372 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/26/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 27, 2017 Yes - that is the scripture that sums it up, but what about "when the wicked are cut off you will see it"? I'm surprised more believers haven't struggled with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherubim Posted March 27, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 3 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 267 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 372 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/26/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 27, 2017 On March 25, 2017 at 4:06 PM, OneLight said: When someone pulls a verse out of context, they can make it sound like almost anything they wish, In your case, you negelect the context in which you foudn the verse. Here it is in its fullness. Matthew 5:43-48 You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect. I didn't take a verse out of context - you just quoted the entire verse. I'm very aware of lifting verses out of context. I asked if others struggled with not seeing God's retribution on evildoers, as promised. In the imprecatory psalms David prayed for the destruction of his enemies, and then Christ calls on us to forgive them. Even in Revelations the saints cried out, asking God how long it would be before He avenged them. I wondered how other believers have interpreted this. I watched ID and saw where many family members pushed for "justice" for their loved one who was a victim, and prevailed. If one is a believer, they may sit back and tell themselves "God will Avenge," instead of pursuing justice or revenge. It always has made me wonder where our responsibility stops and Gods begins. Even Christ doesn't give any guidelines - such as how long you are to pray for your enemies, and what to pray. What do others pray, and how long? I know someone who is an evil person, that has gone on for years causing destruction, and not being held accountable, and I can't understand why God hasn't done something to them. I know scripture states that God causes His sun to rise on the evil and good, yet you would think He would stop an evil person. I never agreed with believers stating the blithe "we're in a fallen world." Yes, it is fallen, but God has made promises - you can't ignore that or explain it away. Then you get to the dilemma of what is "justice" and what is "revenge." It's just something I've struggled with as a long-time believer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherubim Posted March 27, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 3 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 267 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 372 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/26/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 27, 2017 I appreciate your opinion however. Have you ever struggled with this? Apparently many have struggled with it - I've read many sermons through the years on the topic, and it never quite resolved my questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherubim Posted March 27, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 3 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 267 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 372 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/26/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 27, 2017 On March 25, 2017 at 4:20 PM, Willa said: People will be judged for their works in the end and unless they repent they will burn in hell. But our job is to forgive. By that I mean to allow Christ in us to forgive the unforgivable, since he hung on a cross and prayed "Father, forgive them, they know not what they do". That same Spirit lives within us when we receive Christ and are born again. What is humanly impossible for us to do, He can do through us and in us. Some acts perpetrated by evil people - sometimes even Christians - are unforgivable. I know the verse that you quoted, yet what about the verse: "IF your brother repents, forgive him?" What if someone never repented? I know that people will be judged for their works - it's just very difficult to see an evildoer, sometimes even a professing Christian, continue on doing damage and it looks like God isn't stopping them. It's a dilemma I've watched play out for over 35 years. Hasn't anyone here struggled with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherubim Posted March 27, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 3 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 267 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 372 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/26/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 27, 2017 On March 25, 2017 at 5:24 PM, BacKaran said: I was scammed by "friend said" who claimed to have been born again... No, they purposely targeted me cuz i was a widow. I forgive them even after winning in court, which they owed me a bunch, I let it go cuz I didn't want their drama in my life for the next two years while they made late payments to me. They stole the money from God, not me so I've prayed for their repentance but they've continued on to scam others. Move on and let God deal with them.? That's exactly what I'm talking about. Your "supposed" friend very well could be a believer - I have watched believers do very bad things over the years. That's a unique way of looking at it - that they stole from God - I just don't know if I can sustain that belief for long. It's hard to forgive someone when you have to live with the results of their evil every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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