appy Posted March 27, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 23 Topic Count: 133 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,864 Content Per Day: 0.62 Reputation: 2,596 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted March 27, 2017 42 minutes ago, cherubim said: I would think that most have struggled with this. When someone does evil, I think it's right to ostracize them. The church did it many years ago - even ex-communicating. Some evil is so heinous, that to sweep it under the rug is dangerous. It's a very hard, very complicated issue. I just have not found sermons that have really hit the mark, and resolved the issues in my mind. Years back Dear Abby printed a letter from a woman who said that her husband beat her (this is not my problem - I have a good husband). She said that she went to a well-known pastor, who told her to "turn the other cheek." Abby's response was to the point: "I don't believe God expects you to turn the other cheek if the first one is black and blue." So I think these verses are very open to misinterpretation. I would like to have a settled feeling about certain people - one in particular. But how can you feel settled, when that person is a danger and you are on high alert? It's a hard thing. I haven't seen teaching yet that really deals with the nuts and bolts of the issues. Per the “dear Abby” example. Turning the other cheek means to ignore simple verbal insults by other people. It does not mean that one has to except a punch in the face. And then a second one on the other side. NOT at all. Nor does it mean that a person has to remain with an abusive person and be repeatedly abused either physically or emotionally. That is not what the scripture means. NOR does it mean one can not defend themselves physically if they need to. Again that scripture is being directed at simple insults. Meaning name calling, being sworn at, etc. . . And this is what dear Abby was saying. She was telling the person that she did not have to stay in an abusive relationship. To get away from the abusive spouse. As for the pastor's teaching...this is why we are told to take everything to God's word, and read his word for ourselves. To see if what is being taught lines up with scripture. In the woman's case and your first post about forgiveness. It doesn't mean that this woman had to stay and except the abuse. Not at all. Forgiveness here, also does not mean she had to trust the abusive partner either or forget the events. Or even come into contact with the abuser. Because we can't forget something like that. But it does mean, to not remain bitter, angry and resentful at the abuser. Much easier said than done in this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Churchmouse Posted March 27, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 91 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,216 Content Per Day: 0.81 Reputation: 1,014 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/29/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/02/1958 Share Posted March 27, 2017 11 minutes ago, cherubim said: I'm unsure of separating the Old and New Testaments - Christ even quoted from the Psalms. I don't know the link, but the teaching is: "Praying the Psalms for Spiritual Warfare - is it Scriptural." - it covers some of what I'm referring to. I have to come back to the topic in awhile. He didn't use old testament sensitivity to promote Christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherubim Posted March 27, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 3 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 267 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 372 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/26/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 27, 2017 5 minutes ago, giggling appy said: Per the “dear Abby” example. Turning the other cheek means to ignore simple verbal insults by other people. It does not mean that one has to except a punch in the face. And then a second one on the other side. NOT at all. Nor does it mean that a person has to remain with an abusive person and be repeatedly abused either physically or emotionally. That is not what the scripture means. NOR does it mean one can not defend themselves physically if they need to. Again that scripture is being directed at simple insults. Meaning name calling, being sworn at, etc. . . And this is what dear Abby was saying. She was telling the person that she did not have to stay in an abusive relationship. To get away from the abusive spouse. As for the pastor's teaching...this is why we are told to take everything to God's word, and read his word for ourselves. To see if what is being taught lines up with scripture. In the woman's case and your first post about forgiveness. It doesn't mean that this woman had to stay and except the abuse. Not at all. Forgiveness here, also does not mean she had to trust the abusive partner either or forget the events. Or even come into contact with the abuser. Because we can't forget something like that. But it does mean, to not remain bitter, angry and resentful at the abuser. Much easier said than done in this situation. I don't disagree with you, but your interpretation of scripture is your own, if you think about it. Why do you believe yours is the correct interpretation? I think your interpretation is to an extent accurate - but it seems incomplete. Common sense should prevail, but even pastors seem to come up with their own interpretations. I think many people have been harmed - seriously - and made to feel bad on top of an original injury. I saw this played out. We were in a church years back, and this issue arose with a situation. The pastor's wife said: "No no no no no no no! Scripture states YOU MUST FORGIVE!" I just didn't believe God would pummel someone and try to jam "forgiveness" down someone's throat. Feelings take time to heal - if they even do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherubim Posted March 27, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 3 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 267 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 372 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/26/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 27, 2017 12 minutes ago, Churchmouse said: He didn't use old testament sensitivity to promote Christianity. I'm unsure what you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherubim Posted March 27, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 3 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 267 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 372 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/26/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 27, 2017 26 minutes ago, Abby-Joy said: If you'd like to message me and tell me the steps you took, that would be fine. But don't assume I've not taken any.... please.... No Abby - I don't assume that - I had a strong reaction due to the situation we just had. What they attempted to push on us was insane. Scripture states: "In a multitude of counselors there is safety. I don't have all the answers, or I wouldn't be here asking others' opinions. Sometimes, a person has fought through a situation and may know a strategy that works. I'll message you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Churchmouse Posted March 27, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 91 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,216 Content Per Day: 0.81 Reputation: 1,014 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/29/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/02/1958 Share Posted March 27, 2017 19 minutes ago, cherubim said: I'm unsure what you mean? i think If i hear the term unsure much more in this I will pull my hair out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appy Posted March 27, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 23 Topic Count: 133 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,864 Content Per Day: 0.62 Reputation: 2,596 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted March 27, 2017 You can either move on with your life or remain angry and bitter. Remaining angry will eat away at you, robbing you of peace and joy. Forgiveness, means you will no longer remain angry or hold a grudge. It does not mean that the person who is abusive is escaping responsibility. It is that you are doing what God told you to do and that is that you let the wrong doer off of your hook...doesn't mean the person is off of God's hook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippie333 Posted March 27, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 114 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,236 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 673 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/24/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/18/1970 Share Posted March 27, 2017 13 minutes ago, giggling appy said: You can either move on with your life or remain angry and bitter. Remaining angry will eat away at you, robbing you of peace and joy. Forgiveness, means you will no longer remain angry or hold a grudge. It does not mean that the person who is abusive is escaping responsibility. It is that you are doing what God told you to do and that is that you let the wrong doer off of your hook...doesn't mean the person is off of God's hook. Amen Appy!, Joh 21:21 Seeing him, Peter said to Jesus, Lord, and what of this one? Joh 21:22 Jesus said to him, If I desire that he remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow Me. Joh 21:23 Then this saying went abroad among the brothers, that that disciple should not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him, He shall not die, but, If I desire that he remain until I come, what is that to you? Do as we are to do in following Christ, what someone else is going to face is between them and God... we are to do His will and not worry about the rest. God Bless, Hip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherubim Posted March 27, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 3 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 267 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 372 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/26/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 27, 2017 4 hours ago, Churchmouse said: i think If i hear the term unsure much more in this I will pull my hair out. okay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherubim Posted March 27, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 3 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 267 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 372 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/26/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 27, 2017 4 hours ago, Hippie333 said: Amen Appy!, Joh 21:21 Seeing him, Peter said to Jesus, Lord, and what of this one? Joh 21:22 Jesus said to him, If I desire that he remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow Me. Joh 21:23 Then this saying went abroad among the brothers, that that disciple should not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him, He shall not die, but, If I desire that he remain until I come, what is that to you? Do as we are to do in following Christ, what someone else is going to face is between them and God... we are to do His will and not worry about the rest. God Bless, Hip I think it comes down to what is our responsibility vs God's. I don't think it's a cut and dry issue. Oversimplifying the issue has led to positive harm, since people may be lulled into thinking they never have to take action. I see that no one really has more insight into this than all the sermons I've read over the years. It's something I struggle with. All the verses are plain enough, but living it out doesn't seem like it's even for everyone. I've seen cases where judgment didn't fall on an evil person until someone took action, and other cases where judgment came without anyone acting. I don't know - I think it's a hard concept. I've seen people do horrible things and seemingly walk away scot free. In at least 2 cases it was professing believers. What they did was really bad. It reminds me of the verse in Revelations about the saints asking God how long it would be before He avenged their blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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