Judah, Tamar and Shelah

[HisFirst]

Just now, shiloh357 said:

I think "clubbing" has given way to online dating sites, which to me are questionable.   

 

Oh yes, that's for sure and Yes, they are questionable, even Christian dating sites....eg:   profiles that note how many tines they go to Church, alongside of a shirtless pic of themselves

Just now, shiloh357 said:

 

 

[JTC]

1 hour ago, HisFirst said:

Are you going to church at the moment? 

Maybe try one that has a mature singles group? 

No I'm not, worse still is that in nearly 40 yrs I have never been able to find a good church. My very 1st one was founded by a man who turned out to be a false prophet. If we were in OT times we would have had to stone the man. His prophecy involved a total social and economic collapse. This was supposed to happen in 1984. (very much like the book) That church only had about 70 members but once it was 1985 people started leaving. We did have a great worship service, it was the best of any where I've been. I still miss those worship services. They didn't have a pastor instead they had 3 elders and 4 deacons. One day a new guy came in. That was rare. A few weeks later we had a church BBQ. At the time I was still pretty new myself, for this reason I befriended the latest new guy. During the BBQ the new guy was upset and wanted to talk to me privately. I was kinda shocked by what he told me. The elders did a baptism in the Holy Spirit with him. Back then they expected you to start speaking in tongues and if you didn't they believed you didn't get the HS. Back then they also thought speaking in tongues gave you power. One of the elders brought the new guy in a private room and tried to teach him how to speak in tongues. He asked me if they are supposed to do that. Not that I knew of. We never saw him again. I've had nothing but bad luck with churches. At this time, I no longer have a car so I couldn't get to a church. I have spinal stenosis and can't walk much. I'm also bent over. I had to give up working 5 years ago. I'm on disability but it's very little. I never had much savings but what I had is gone. I just wasn't meant to be married. If I was it would have happened. I've noticed that, for the most part, the woman chooses the man. What woman have done since I was 20 is when she sees a guy she wants she makes it obvious to him. It's then up to him to chase her. Girls love being chased and most guys need to feel like they choose the girl. But it's all a social game. Most people don't know this, I do bc I'm basically a psychologist I just never got my PhD. That wasn't God's will neither. I've helped many people in my years. Almost everyone would have never gone for formal therapy. If I had gotten the PhD I would have never met all the people I helped. This is why I think it happened just as God wanted it to.

Thanks for asking.

[ravindran]

On 3/26/2017 at 3:40 AM, HisFirst said:

For those of you who know the story of Judah and Tamar (who was his daughter in-law twice) 

Genesis 38

She was married to two of Judah's sons but remained childless after thwir deaths and Judah instructed Tamar to wait until his third son, Shelah,  was grown and old enough to marry her and produce children. But this didn't eventuate. 

The story progresses to later, Tamar dresses as a prostitute, to which Judah (not knowing) goes to her which in due course, Tamar conceives. (twins).

So the whole point of this is ,

do you think the age gap between Tamar and Shelah would have been significant and what do you personally  think of age gaps between women and men (Christian) where the woman is at least 10 yes older?

We are accustomed to older men/younger women unions but what of the reverse?

 

 I have seen successful marriages where the girl is slightly older than boy. Me and my wife are almost same age. She is just few weeks younger than me. It has been working out pretty good for us. I think it does not matter who is older. I think 5 to 10 years is the max. Otherwise, the difference is  more than a decade and we know how things get so different in few years. It would feel like people from 2 generations are living together

 

[Jayne]

On 3/26/2017 at 2:40 AM, HisFirst said:

For those of you who know the story of Judah and Tamar (who was his daughter in-law twice) 

Genesis 38

She was married to two of Judah's sons but remained childless after thwir deaths and Judah instructed Tamar to wait until his third son, Shelah,  was grown and old enough to marry her and produce children. But this didn't eventuate. 

The story progresses to later, Tamar dresses as a prostitute, to which Judah (not knowing) goes to her which in due course, Tamar conceives. (twins).

So the whole point of this is ,

do you think the age gap between Tamar and Shelah would have been significant and what do you personally  think of age gaps between women and men (Christian) where the woman is at least 10 yes older?

We are accustomed to older men/younger women unions but what of the reverse?

 

We don't know the age gap between Shelah and Tamar.  Was it 5 years?  15 years?

Besides, Judah never intended to give Shelah to her.  The only reason she dressed as a Temple prostitute to bear children for that family is that she saw that "he was grown and not given to her."

Would a marriage work with an older woman and a younger man?  I have no idea. 

[Neighbor]

4 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

Pre-nups usually only happen in marriages where one or both spouses are wealthy and want to preserve their assets.   But a pre-nup is basically admitting to failure even before the marriage gets off the ground. 

 Oh no, not at all. Only once you have gone through one will a person understand the benefits to both parties. Plus it incorporates wills and estate planning. Don't have to be very wealthy to need estate planning.  The hard process ishar dto work through for sure,but  makes it clear what does need to be worked upon for success in a marriage, and helps avoid misunderstandings and pitfalls later on.

AND if the individuals don't do their planning ahead of time while under no duress the governments will do it  as government sees fit without their  consent later.

[Guest shiloh357]

4 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

 Oh no, not at all. Only once you have gone through one will a person understand the benefits to both parties. Plus it incorporates wills and estate planning. Don't have to be very wealthy to need estate planning.  The hard process ishar dto work through for sure,but  makes it clear what does need to be worked upon for success in a marriage, and helps avoid misunderstandings and pitfalls later on.

AND if the individuals don't do their planning ahead of time while under no duress the governments will do it  as government sees fit without their  consent later.

I have never seen anyone, except those who are wealthy, get pre-nups.  To me, estate planning is different than a pre-nup.

[Neighbor]

42 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

I have never seen anyone, except those who are wealthy, get pre-nups.  To me, estate planning is different than a pre-nup.

Hi, was very foreign to me too; till I fell in love at age 73. And am also involved in my own estate -such as it is - planning, plus  tending to estates of some family at  this time. Had very little real knowledge of what a substantial industry this is, and just how much governments do take over if one has not been very thorough and careful in planning and declaring what is to be done even with the smallest of assets.

 I have lost an entire week of work for my employer this month to such issues as some items were not considered well enough ahead of time.

 Between the cost and the emotion of filling out what are literally divorce settlement papers I was more than once determined to skip the process; but now that it is done, I find we are stronger as a unit and know so much more about how to build  a new life together. So that I can best provide for my bride. It is no fun in any sense of the word. But I now think  it is God's will- for me anyway, and I now know better how to best serve that will in honorable service to His glory.

[HisFirst]

21 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

I don't know what the age gap would have been as I am not sure we are given enough information to make that determination.   Yes, marriages were generally not made for romantic reasons, but for practical reasons.  Having offspring was more important than romantic love.  They had a totally different mindset than we do today.

The problem there Shiloh, methinks it leads to adultery - an arranged marriage for whatever motivation that's not based  on love. 

I thought the OT Jews marriages were based on love if you take a peak at SOS, very romantic.

[HisFirst]

10 hours ago, JTC said:

No I'm not, worse still is that in nearly 40 yrs I have never been able to find a good church. My very 1st one was founded by a man who turned out to be a false prophet. If we were in OT times we would have had to stone the man. His prophecy involved a total social and economic collapse. This was supposed to happen in 1984. (very much like the book) That church only had about 70 members but once it was 1985 people started leaving. We did have a great worship service, it was the best of any where I've been. I still miss those worship services. They didn't have a pastor instead they had 3 elders and 4 deacons. One day a new guy came in. That was rare. A few weeks later we had a church BBQ. At the time I was still pretty new myself, for this reason I befriended the latest new guy. During the BBQ the new guy was upset and wanted to talk to me privately. I was kinda shocked by what he told me. The elders did a baptism in the Holy Spirit with him. Back then they expected you to start speaking in tongues and if you didn't they believed you didn't get the HS. Back then they also thought speaking in tongues gave you power. One of the elders brought the new guy in a private room and tried to teach him how to speak in tongues. He asked me if they are supposed to do that. Not that I knew of. We never saw him again. I've had nothing but bad luck with churches. At this time, I no longer have a car so I couldn't get to a church. I have spinal stenosis and can't walk much. I'm also bent over. I had to give up working 5 years ago. I'm on disability but it's very little. I never had much savings but what I had is gone. I just wasn't meant to be married. If I was it would have happened. I've noticed that, for the most part, the woman chooses the man. What woman have done since I was 20 is when she sees a guy she wants she makes it obvious to him. It's then up to him to chase her. Girls love being chased and most guys need to feel like they choose the girl. But it's all a social game. Most people don't know this, I do bc I'm basically a psychologist I just never got my PhD. That wasn't God's will neither. I've helped many people in my years. Almost everyone would have never gone for formal therapy. If I had gotten the PhD I would have never met all the people I helped. This is why I think it happened just as God wanted it to.

Thanks for asking.

There's all different Christian teachings on how to "find a mate". The woman leads, the male leads, the female must never show interest, the female Must show interest and pray like mad for the right one without lifting a finger etc, etc.

Personally, I don't think there's only one solitary Mr/Ms Right out there for people and if you miss the boat meeting that one person, well then that's your lot in life - single to the end. No - I think there's many opportunities out there as a single and when you meet that person, you just know. Even if it hasn't dawned on the other person yet. Call it gut instinct or discernment - that's my take on it anyway.

[Guest shiloh357]

5 hours ago, HisFirst said:

The problem there Shiloh, methinks it leads to adultery - an arranged marriage for whatever motivation that's not based  on love. 

I thought the OT Jews marriages were based on love if you take a peak at SOS, very romantic.

The idea in arranged marriages - and I am not a fan of arranged marriages was that they would learn to love each other, at least that was the ideal.  Not sure if it always worked out that way.

Often parents arranged marriages for self reasons.   Marriages into another family often entailed having access to that family assets.   If family A had skills in carpentry or stone masonry, and family B had good business skills, then it it made sense to merge both families and gain a lot of financial profit from it.   So the parents of both families arrange for their kids to marry.   The kids had little say in the matter.

Biblically  speaking, marriages should be for love, not arranged.  The Bible does not teach arranged marriages, but it does mediate the cultural reality that existed in Bible times.   SOS would be an example of how the Bible teaches marriage for love.