Why I am a Post-Millennialist

[missmuffet]

15 minutes ago, Limey_Bob said:

I said in my first post, which you have obviously not read, that I do take them literally. SOULS in Revelation 20:4 are reigning with Christ, in heaven, so the six occurrences of 1,000 years refers to human history, four occurrences are from Adam to Christ, the other two which mention the throne at verses 4 and 6 refer to the intermediate state (Church age) where Christ is ruling over souls (this means disincarnate spirits of saints) in heaven. I hope that I have not been rude MissMuffet, forgive me if I have been sharp, but you need to prove your claims not just make assertions, as if making a mere assertion is itself truth, when it is not. Why can't two of those thousands years (verses 4 and 6) refer to Christ's literally reigning now in heaven, over his death saints, in what is called the intermediate state?

I did post Scripture stating that you are not reading the Bible literally. If I were you I would take a look at the very severe warning that is in the book of Revelation and not taking away or adding to the words that are in that book.

Revelation 22:18-19

A Warning

¹⁸ For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; ¹⁹ and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

[Kindle]

9 hours ago, Limey_Bob said:

Oh Dear, I SPECIFICALLY stated that I do NOT beleive this

Ok, Let me get this straight. You made a post titled Why I am a Post-Millennialist. But when MM said she didn't agree you said You don't believe it.

So which is it, are you a Post-Millennialist Or not??

[missmuffet]

You can believe how you want to believe Bob I am just saying the Bible does not teach post millennialism.

[Unfailing Presence]

10 hours ago, Limey_Bob said:

Hello Unfailing Presence, you have raised an excellent point. The three main positions are pre-,  post- and A-  Millennial.

 So, I'd prefer to call my position a spiritual post-Millennial view, and I am in complete agreement that the claim that the world will get better and better, so much so that 1,000 years of peace will come in, is complete nonsense, the Bible instead prophecies a great falling away, a great apostasy, and so i would agree that the usual (physical) post-Millennial view is wrong, just as I would see a great many serious dangers in the futurist version of Pre-Millialism (which includes a belief in the rapture), a position which is hugely popular within the American Evangelical Church which have either consciously or subconsciously taken certain dispensational beliefs, and then built a theology upon what I would regard as extremely flawed theology.

So what would be the specific  purpose of  a spiritual post Millennium in heaven ?

 

Sorry about making two separate posts .

I meant to include the quote in a single post .

Learning curve may be in effect for awhile , lol .

*** Took care of it for you.  OneLight ***

[OneLight]

2 hours ago, Limey_Bob said:

Sadly, no. For somebody who is a babe in Christ, newly converted, I'll accept that they should try to follow Jesus for the first few weeks of their Christian walk. However, for everybody else, converted for more than a few months, the command is to "study to show yourself approved" as in our present day, we are living in the midst of the worst apostasy in church history.

Your statement that it is our responsibility to prove each other wrong, using the command "study to show yourself approved", is inaccurate.  I find that in 2 Timothy 2:15 to say "Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.".  This verse do not say to prove each other right or wrong, but to be approved by God, not people.

[HAZARD]

20 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said:

You did a fine job in explaining  the where's  of each Millennial position but a little short on the what's  of each position .

 I think that where you place the Millennium is dependent  entirely upon what you believe it's ultimate purpose  to be .

Based upon a specific  stated belief in  purpose , can the claim then be made that  one of these positions , " Pre, Post, A " , stands out from the others ?

How so ?

The saints will be raptured before the tribulation. The Rapture is a distinct coming in itself, not to the Earth, but in the air where Christ meets the saints and then takes them back to Heaven to present them blameless before God the Father, John 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:16, 17.

The Rapture takes place several years before the literal advent of Christ to the Earth, for they, the saints come back with Him at that time. The saints are in Heaven before God, and not in the air, from the time of the Rapture to their coming again with Christ to reign as kings and priests, Jude 14; Rev. 19:14; Zech. 14:5.

Jude 14,  And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of His saints,

Rev. 19:14, And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Zech. 14:5, And ye shall flee to the2 valley of the mountains;1 for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

At the Rapture, the Lord comes from Heaven as far as the air, or Earthly Heavens and the saints will be caught up to meet Him in the air.
At the second coming, the saints are not raptured, and neither is Christ, but both will come back to the Earth together.

The rapture takes place before the Tribulation, whereas the second Advent takes place after the Tribulation. The Rapture could occur at any time, whereas the second Advent cannot occur until after the tribulation.

[OneLight]

2 hours ago, Limey_Bob said:

I am telling people what I happen to believe myself, I am not telling people what they ought to believe, but I do welcome feedback and correction, as eschatology is an area new to me and I have only recently come to the position which I now hold to (I used to be a pre-Millennialist, I was saved in a Pentecostal church in London in 1985 and was taught that as truth). I read my Bible and pray, but I have now given up on the institutional church. The three doctrines which got me to leave the church were (1) Trinity    (2) person of Christ    (3) new covenant. I live in the UK, and apart from the odd Methodist and Liberal Anglican much of the evangelical Church here cannot accurately define the Trinity in accordance with the ancient creeds (Athanasian Creed, Westminster Confession of Faith etc), neither can most church folk explain accurately who Christ is, I have for instance been told that Christ's sacrifice for sin wasn't on the cross it was actually in hell offered to the devil, I have also been told that Christ only had one single spirit, not two, which is the heresy of Apollinarianism which denies his full humanity. Finally, most church folk cannot explain accurately the new Covenant, yet that is the basis of the gospel and it's based upon a covenant made between God the Father and the Son of God, mediated through the Holy Spirit (Hebrews 9:13-15).  I do not mean to be offensive or rude, but i would happen to believe that most religious people merely parrot what other people have taught them, few people actually study and research things out for themselves, which God commands us to, remember the Bereans.

Hi Bob,

You keep using the term Pentecostal as if it were only a Oneness belief.  I have to correct this by showing there are many Pentecostal churches that are not Oneness, while some are:

• Apostolic Church
• Assemblies of God
• Association of Vineyard Churches
• Church of God (Cleveland)
• Church of God in Christ
• Church of God of Prophecy
• Elim Pentecostal
• Full Gospel Baptist Church Fellowship
• Hillsong Church
• International Church of the Foursquare Gospel
• International Pentecostal Holiness Church
• Pentecostal Assemblies of the World
• United Pentecostal Church International (UPCI)

 

According to one Oneness Pentecostal site, they list what they see as Oneness establishments/Churches/Universities, which are:

Official Names and Membership (estimates):

Apostolic Overcoming Holy Church of God (AOHCG)-13,000
Assemblies of the Lord Jesus, Inc. (ALJI)-50,000
Bible Way Church of Our Lord Jesus Christ World Wide, Inc. (Bible Way)-250,000
Church of Our Lord Jesus of the Apostolic Faith (COLJF)-30,000
Pentecostal Assemblies of the World (PAW)-1,000,000 reported
Pentecostal Church of Apostolic Faith (PCAF)-25,000
United Church of Jesus Christ (Apostolic) (UCJC-A)-100,000
United Pentecostal Church International (UPCI)-500,000 (1.5 million worldwide)

Other Designations: "Jesus Only" churches; "Apostolic Pentecostals"; The "Oneness Movement"; The "Jesus Name" Movement

Key Publications:

Pentecostal Herald (UPCI)
The Global Witness (UPCI)
The Bible Way News Voice (Bible Way)
The People's Mouthpiece (AOHCG)
The Contender for the Faith (COLJF)
Christian Outlook (PAW)

Educational Institutions:

AOHCG: Berean Christian Bible College-Birmingham, Ala.
PAW: Aenon Bible School-Indianapolis, Ind.
UCJC: Institute of Biblical Studies-Baltimore, Md.
UPCI: Apostolic Bible Institute-St. Paul, Minn.
Apostolic Missionary Institute-Oshawa, Ont.
Christian Life College-Stockton, Calif.
Indiana Bible College-Seymour, Ind.
Texas Bible College-Houston, Texas

 

Over the years I have come to realize that blanket statements are very damaging and just about every time, a lie.  Please be careful with blanket statements as it may hurt someone without you ever knowing it.

[Unfailing Presence]

Hazard thank you for your input on a different " where " concerning the Millennial period .

What do you think the purpose in God's plan of this particular version of the Millennium to be ?

[missmuffet]

Do you have a preterist belief Bob?

[HAZARD]

1 hour ago, Unfailing Presence said:

Hazard thank you for your input on a different " where " concerning the Millennial period .

What do you think the purpose in God's plan of this particular version of the Millennium to be ?

This dispensation is called "Divine Government," because God Himself along with the Son and holy Spirit will set up a divine government on Earth over all nations forever. This first thousand years of God's reign is called the Millennium (Rev. 20: 1-10).

The Kingdom will be as earthly and literal as any other one that has been on the Earth. It will not be monarchic, democratic, or autocratic, but a theocratic form of government, that is God reigning through Jesus His only begotten Son (2Sam. 7: Ps. 89:35-37; Isa. 2:2-4; 4:2-3;9:6-7; 11:1-15; 16:5; 24:23; 32:1-4; 40:9-10; 42:1-4; 52:7; Jer. 23:5-8).

It will be world wide and will forever "increase" in population and blessings (Isa. 9:6-7; 11:9; Ps. 72:8; 97:9; Dan. 7:13-14; Micah 4:1-3; Zech. 9:10; 14:1-21; Rev. 11;15).