Why I am a Post-Millennialist

[seeking the lost]

4 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

There is nothing that will so insure a man to remain in ignorance than contempt prior to investigation.

This is a modern version of the British philosopher, William Paley, whose book Evidences of Christianity contains the following sentence: “Contempt prior to examination is an intellectual vice, from which the greatest faculties of mind are not free.” Paley was writing about Romans who scoffed at early Christianity.

Actually, Pre-Wrath derives from the sequence of events laid out in linear, prophetic narratives. 

Now I do read what you write, but so far, I can't say I agree with any of it.  Your doctrine seems very strange to me.  I see where you start, and how you compile it, and I am amazed at how you gloss over errors and read Scripture as only you can so as to get the conclusions you draw from it. 

So your opinion of my eschatology matters little to me because you can't even take the time to examine it so as to lend a constructive critique.

As I have done with the parable of the wheat and tares, showing how my interpretation meets with the wording and is buttressed by prophecy in Revelation.

I am not a novice and the post tribulation rapture was not my first doctrine.  I have had to study all the different thoughts concerning eschatology.  Your representation of the doctrine that questions my reading ability sets a contempt.  I must assume that you do not want me to come out of ignorance.   Pual had something to say about ignorance.  He said: 

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. 

Your treatment of the wheat and the tares ignores the ancient near east practices of the harvest.

I understand that when you approach scripture with bias that all you can see will support your bias.  You have proven that.

In China American Missionaries taught this doctrine of the pre-wrath rapture.  The missionaries were kicked out by the communist.  Many millions were killed for their faith.  Many more fell away because they felt they had been lied to.  The missionaries told them they would escape.  The fruit of this doctrine is bad all the way around.  I place it in the category of doctrines of demons and seducing spirits.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

1 hour ago, seeking the lost said:

 I must assume that you do not want me to come out of ignorance.

That's quite an assumption you make from reading.

Now what is happening to Christians in certain parts of the world is not The Great Tribulation.

That unequaled time - according to Jesus - and not you - only begins with the (midpoint) abomination of Daniel (9:27).

In Revelation, the Lord reveals to John that this period starts with TWO LAWS passed with the unveiling of the talking image of a beast of a man - the King of the North, i.e., the anti-Christ in chapter 13.

The Great Tribulation, which will never be equaled, sealing its definition as a specific and unique event in prophetic end-time events, is shortened, so that not all life, and that is further defined by those lives that are in jeopardy: the Elect - are killed.

The Great Tribulation is shortened by the arrival of the "unknown Day": the Day of the Lord.

And here we see Rescue and then Wrath in chapter 14 - which I showed you before so you would not be ignorant.

However, you chose to reject any teaching besides your own thoughts.

[seeking the lost]

14 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

 

15 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

 I must assume that you do not want me to come out of ignorance.

That's quite an assumption you make from reading.

 

You forget your challenge to me of reading skills.  Perhaps I am adding to your text.  That hurts, right?

 

14 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

Now what is happening to Christians in certain parts of the world is not The Great Tribulation.

I know that and you know that but when your family is tortured and killed before your eyes and you are being challenged to forsake your faith, it may be hard to convince them of that.  

 

14 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

The Great Tribulation, which will never be equaled, sealing its definition as a specific and unique event in prophetic end-time events, is shortened, so that not all life, and that is further defined by those lives that are in jeopardy: the Elect - are killed.

If the elect have been captured why would the days need to be shortened?

 

14 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

However, you chose to reject any teaching besides your own thoughts.

I reject any teaching that is not included in the WORD of God but is made up of enticing words of mans wisdom without solid foundation.  The rapture occurs after the resurrection and not before the Wrath.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

13 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

You forget your challenge to me of reading skills.  Perhaps I am adding to your text.  That hurts, right?

What do you mean - "That hurts, right?"  I give you no power to hurt me.  You can do whatever you want to do.  Sometimes, depending on what you do, you can even do it again; and then again, other times you can't!  Perhaps you are adding to my text?  Is this a guessing game?  I don't know, but we will see how you change the text later on in this post...
 

13 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

I know that and you know that but when your family is tortured and killed before your eyes and you are being challenged to forsake your faith, it may be hard to convince them of that.  

Who says I have to convince them?
Who says they are the arbiters of what constitutes the Great Tribulation?
And who says that their suffering just because it's horrible makes their suffering THE Great Tribulation?
Is their suffering more terrible than all the other forms of torture used throughout the millennia by man against man, woman and child?
Was their suffering inflicted in accordance with Revelation 13:14-17?  No?  What about Mt 24:15?  No?  Well then - it's not part of the Great Tribulation!
 

13 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

If the elect have been captured why would the days need to be shortened?

Who said anyone was captured?

I said: killed. 

How do you go from killed to captured? 

Where in conjunction with the Great Tribulation in the Olivet Discourse did Jesus say the Elect were just captured?

Where, in conjunction with the talking image and the two laws of Rev 13:15-17 does it say to capture those who transgress?

Ah, this must be a reading thing of yours...
 

13 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

I reject any teaching that is not included in the WORD of God but is made up of enticing words of mans wisdom without solid foundation.  The rapture occurs after the resurrection and not before the Wrath.

You did not comment on my teaching of Revelation 14:14-16 being followed by Revelation 14:17-20.
You didn't even examine them.
You glossed right over them.
You didn't even include them in your reply.
That is showing contempt prior to investigation.

These verses show Rescue then Wrath.
If you want to say the Rapture does not come before Wrath and you only follow teaching that is included in the WORD of God - but ignore that portion of the WORD of God that includes it - then you get what you got.

Revelation 14 is not the only place this concept of Rescue-then-Wrath is demonstrated in God's WORD.  Going from the detailed parallel account of the one 'seven' in Revelation chapters 13-16 inclusive, we'll go back to the broad overview of the Seal/Scroll account in Revelation chapters 4-11 (exclusive of 11:1-13) - where the Great Multitude show up in Heaven before the first Trumpet of God's Wrath goes forth (in conjunction with the Day of the Lord's Wrath).

SO - there are two places in the book of Revelation where what Paul wrote, and what Jesus said is true.  We, the wheat, are rescued to the barn of Heaven and then God's Wrath falls on the wicked, the ones left behind; the tares - and they are burned in the field of this world.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Marcus O'Reillius

[seeking the lost]

On 4/28/2017 at 10:13 PM, Marcus O'Reillius said:

 

On 4/28/2017 at 8:47 AM, seeking the lost said:

I know that and you know that but when your family is tortured and killed before your eyes and you are being challenged to forsake your faith, it may be hard to convince them of that.  

Who says I have to convince them?
Who says they are the arbiters of what constitutes the Great Tribulation?
And who says that their suffering just because it's horrible makes their suffering THE Great Tribulation?
Is their suffering more terrible than all the other forms of torture used throughout the millennia by man against man, woman and child?
Was their suffering inflicted in accordance with Revelation 13:14-17?  No?  What about Mt 24:15?  No?  Well then - it's not part of the Great Tribulation!

So you do not care that your fake doctrine has disillusioned them and they being lied to turn their back on the Lord.  Go to the Chinese who felt betrayed and now win them back to confidence in the Lord.  Are you so uncaring about people that you cannot be sensitive to their suffering and their perception of the truth?   I know it is not part of the Great tribulation but in the same way they are offended now,

 

On 4/28/2017 at 10:13 PM, Marcus O'Reillius said:

 

On 4/28/2017 at 8:47 AM, seeking the lost said:

You forget your challenge to me of reading skills.  Perhaps I am adding to your text.  That hurts, right?

What do you mean - "That hurts, right?"  I give you no power to hurt me.  You can do whatever you want to do.  Sometimes, depending on what you do, you can even do it again; and then again, other times you can't!  Perhaps you are adding to my text?  Is this a guessing game?  I don't know, but we will see how you change the text later on in this post...
 

On 4/28/2017 at 8:47 AM, seeking the lost said:

I know that and you know that but when your family is tortured and killed before your eyes and you are being challenged to forsake your faith, it may be hard to convince them of that.  

Who says I have to convince them?
Who says they are the arbiters of what constitutes the Great Tribulation?
And who says that their suffering just because it's horrible makes their suffering THE Great Tribulation?
Is their suffering more terrible than all the other forms of torture used throughout the millennia by man against man, woman and child?
Was their suffering inflicted in accordance with Revelation 13:14-17?  No?  What about Mt 24:15?  No?  Well then - it's not part of the Great Tribulation!
 

On 4/28/2017 at 8:47 AM, seeking the lost said:

If the elect have been captured why would the days need to be shortened?

Who said anyone was captured?

I said: killed. 

How do you go from killed to captured? 

Where in conjunction with the Great Tribulation in the Olivet Discourse did Jesus say the Elect were just captured?

Where, in conjunction with the talking image and the two laws of Rev 13:15-17 does it say to capture those who transgress?

Ah, this must be a reading thing of yours...

The spell check must have changed raptured into captured.  They in the safety of heaven would not need those days to be shortened.

 

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

3 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

So you do not care that your fake doctrine has disillusioned them

Time for you to get off your high horse mister.