In heaven during 1,000 year reign?

[Marcus O'Reillius]

LOL Roy, remind me to reset my dial to Heblish.

[Keras]

16 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

She describes 20 diversion tactics used by people.  First out of the box is this one:

1. Gaslighting.

This is the exact tactic that you use. Combined with personal denigration and scoffing.

Everyone can see how you just dismiss Bible truths, without posting scriptures or any proof of your beliefs. Its obvious to all, that your position, a pre-wrath rapture to heaven of all true Christians, is bereft of scriptural support  and is not what God has planned for His people at all.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

#2 in Shahadi Arabi's list:

Projection.

One sure sign of toxicity is when a person is chronically unwilling to see his or her own shortcomings and uses everything in their power to avoid being held accountable for them. This is known as projection. Projection is a defense mechanism used to displace responsibility of one’s negative behavior and traits by attributing them to someone else. It ultimately acts as a digression that avoids ownership and accountability.

While we all engage in projection to some extent, according to Narcissistic Personality clinical expert Dr. Martinez-Lewi, the projections of a narcissist are often psychologically abusive. Rather than acknowledge their own flaws, imperfections and wrongdoings, malignant narcissists and sociopaths opt to dump their own traits on their unsuspecting suspects in a way that is painful and excessively cruel. Instead of admitting that self-improvement may be in order, they would prefer that their victims take responsibility for their behavior and feel ashamed of themselves. This is a way for a narcissist to project any toxic shame they have about themselves onto another.

For example, a person who engages in pathological lying may accuse their partner of fibbing; a needy spouse may call their husband “clingy” in an attempt to depict them as the one who is dependent; a rude employee may call their boss ineffective in an effort to escape the truth about their own productivity.

Narcissistic abusers love to play the “blameshifting game.” Objectives of the game: they win, you lose, and you or the world at large is blamed for everything that’s wrong with them. This way, you get to babysit their fragile ego while you’re thrust into a sea of self-doubt. Fun, right?

Solution? Don’t “project” your own sense of compassion or empathy onto a toxic person and don’t own any of the toxic person’s projections either. As manipulation expert and author Dr. George Simon (2010) notes in his book In Sheep’s Clothing, projecting our own conscience and value system onto others has the potential consequence of being met with further exploitation.

Narcissists on the extreme end of the spectrum usually have no interest in self-insight or change. It’s important to cut ties and end interactions with toxic people as soon as possible so you can get centered in your own reality and validate your own identity. You don’t have to live in someone else’s cesspool of dysfunction.

Everything about the sequence-of-events comes straight out of the Bible.  I do not have to defend myself because I know what is charged against me is false.

[Retrobyter]

On 4/14/2017 at 10:33 AM, Marcus O'Reillius said:

Why do you?  It's your perception.  Like the motto said in the Church: "Don't believe everything you think."

Timing has everything to do with interpretation when speaking about end-time prophecy.

 

On 4/14/2017 at 10:58 AM, Marcus O'Reillius said:

Your patronizing response is offensive.  "If you would READ Daniel 11..."?  "IF you know a little history."?  Really now. 

Well then you would know that Daniel 11:5-31 describes a generational war between the Seleucids and Ptolemies.

You would also know that Daniel 11:31-35 is also described as the lens of "Dual Focus" which shifts a near-term prophecy to a far-term prophecy, and can "fit" both.

You would also know that Daniel 11:36-39 describes a King unlike any from antiquity.

You would also know that Daniel 11:40-45 lays out in linear narrative a sequence of events which leads to the midpoint abomination, whereas in both 11:45 and Luke 21:20, the enemy surrounds Jerusalem before entering as a victor and presented his "prize" - the talking image of the beast of a man: the abominations-desolation.

This leads to the trip wire of Daniel 12:1, where "Michael" (meaning: "Who-Is-Like-God") responds, and the Great Tribulation is first described in the Bible, and the first time the rescue we seek is put into order as well - after the Great Tribulation, just as Jesus laid out in the Olivet Discourse.

Daniel 12:2 demonstrates a gap in prophecy going from one resurrection to the second.  It is one of five times the Bible describes TWO Resurrections: the first for only the "Righteous" and the second including both "Righteous" and "Wicked."  The second happens after the Millennium; the first happens on the Day of the Lord when Jesus Returns.

To all this, Daniel is amazed and could not understand (12:8), and the answer about the timing (1290 and 1335 days) includes specific information not found anywhere else - what I call the 30 and 45-day periods.  The Lord imparted that to us so we can know and understand. 

Shabbat shalom, Marcus.

Not so nice when the shoe's on the other foot, is it? I found your first statement quoted above, in your word, "offensive." So, what goes around comes around.

"Dual focus"? Don't you know that you can't do things like that with Scripture? How is a reader supposed to determine when a prophecy has been "fulfilled" or not? Anyone can continue to re-use prophecies to make them sound like they're being fulfilled in a "far-term prophecy" at the whim of the individual! No, when a prophecy has been fulfilled, it's DONE! It's OVER! The definition of "fulfilled" is

Merriam-Webster's Definition of fulfill

fulfilled; fulfilling

transitive verb

1 archaic  :  to make full :  fill: her subtle, warm, and golden breath … fulfills him with beatitude — Alfred Tennyson

2a :  to put into effect :  execute He fulfilled his pledge to cut taxes.
b :  to meet the requirements of (a business order) Their order for more TVs was promptly fulfilled.
c :  to bring to an end she came to install herself and fulfill her time at the house — Willa Catherd :  to measure up to :  satisfy She hasn't yet fulfilled the requirements needed to graduate.

3a :  to convert into reality a sense of the failure of life to fulfill its ultimate expectations — Leslie Reesb :  to develop the full potentialities of He has a lot of talent, but he hasn't really fulfilled his potential.

Otherwise, how many of the 400 fulfilled prophecies concerning the Messiah should we say are being "far-term" fulfilled about some other would-be "messiah?"

I think you're confusing this "rule" with that of "double reference," which is not the same thing at all. A "double reference" is a passage of Scripture that is partially fulfilled at one time and partially fulfilled at a later time. THAT'S permissible. It's that "two mountain" effect. Looking from a particular perspective, two mountains (two points revealed in prophecy) can seem like their right next to each other, when a different perspective will reveal the huge valley between those two peaks (the valley representing the time between the fulfillment of those two points of prophecy). Each portion of the prophecy only has ONE fulfillment, although they SEEM to be together in the prophecy.
/\\ vs. /\____(time)_____/\

Also, remember that Yeshua` IS the Resurrection.

John 11:21-27
21 Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.
23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.
KJV

General Resurrections aside, there will be resurrections throughout the Millennium! Remember how He instructed His disciples when sending them out to the towns and villages throughout the Land of Israel?

Matthew 10:5-8
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach (herald), saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand (within your grasp).
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
KJV

This will be the character of the entire Millennium. God the Father AUTHENTICATES the messages about the Kingdom, supporting them with the miracles performed. This is proof positive that God is behind those messages.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

57 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

"Dual focus"? Don't you know that you can't do things like that with Scripture?

Oh boy.  Yes, it is a facet of prophecy, and I didn't coin the term.  If that offends you, sorry, but I can't be bothered to read yet another lengthy discourse dictating terms.

[Retrobyter]

On 4/16/2017 at 0:13 AM, Marcus O'Reillius said:

Oh boy.  Yes, it is a facet of prophecy, and I didn't coin the term.  If that offends you, sorry, but I can't be bothered to read yet another lengthy discourse dictating terms.

Shalom, Marcus.

Nobody's claimed that you "coined the term"; however, just because others have used it doesn't mean that it's a correct way to treat prophetic Scripture or that you should follow suit. It's really not that hard to understand: If you can't determine WHAT fulfills a prophecy, then you won't know WHEN it was/is fulfilled! And, if you don't know WHY the prophecy was made, you'll get the WHAT wrong EVERY TIME!

[Marcus O'Reillius]

11 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

If you can't determine WHAT fulfills a prophecy, then you won't know WHEN it was/is fulfilled! And, if you don't know WHY the prophecy was made, you'll get the WHAT wrong EVERY TIME!

I'm not wrong because you think you're right.

You know, it's funny.  People can come on here with all kinds of ideas on how this or that is put together or comes out and wild speculation flourishes back and forth.

However, some people will try to stamp out ideas that don't work with their version of Scripture, like Heaven as our home, or the Rapture as an event.  Well, that hasn't worked out very well for them has it? 

No one I know has changed their thinking on either of those two subjects despite you and keras loudly, and persistently, trying to stamp them out.
______________________________________________

Now as to Daniel 11, it is a story begun in chapter 10, and concluded in a short question and answer section in chapter 12.

When the Man in Linen, Jesus, as both my Pastor and I think He is, comes to the near-term prophecy of Antiochus IV Epiphanes of the sixty-two 'sevens' in the second century B.C., the narrative in verses 31-35 can be used to describe both that time and the end-times - which is far-term.

The Lens of Dual Focus uses the template of Antiochus IV Epiphanes to be used to describe the end-time 'beast-of-a-man', the "little horn": the King of the North.

Verses 36-39 are descriptive and do not match Antiochus, or any other tyrant who held sway over Israel (China was as large as Rome during her classical period without mention in Daniel 2).

Verses 40-45, likewise, continue a linear narrative of events which do not describe what happened in Daniel's near-term, which is now our history.  Daniel 11:45 and Luke 21:20 describe the same event.

Daniel 12:1 is a continuation of that linear narrative!  It describes the Great Tribulation and the Rapture.

Daniel 12:2 leaps from the Resurrection of the Dead in Christ which happens right before that rescue to the next Resurrection of all the dead - after the Millennium.  This is the first of five times the Bible describes TWO Resurrections: the first for just the Living, and the second for both the Living and the Dead.  Daniel 12:2 sums up all of man's time.  The Man in Linen gives Daniel no information on the Millennium skipped in this gap of prophecy.  Daniel's main theme is God's authority over nations and kings.  In the Millennium, there is no rule of man.
______________________________________________

Now I don't care that you don't agree with it, because there is much we disagree upon and I am not dependent upon your approval for how I interpret something - much less when you say it is fulfilled - as you do with Daniel 9:27 saying Jesus "caused to prevail" a limited-time covenant.  Your pyramid scheme for the New Jerusalem is equally ridiculous to me.

[Retrobyter]

11 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

I'm not wrong because you think you're right.

Shalom, Marcus.

No, you're wrong because you haven't yet investigated all the facts. Please read this argument for Daniel 11. You will find that the answer to these verses in Daniel 11 is because of the history of those times. You have a MIXTURE of personalities involved in how they treated the Holy Land during the two centuries before the Messiah arrived.

Not everything in the Scriptures about some "bad man" is about the "Antichrist!"

Quote

 Your pyramid scheme for the New Jerusalem is equally ridiculous to me.

The simple solution to the shape of the New Jerusalem is this: FOLLOW THE RIVER. Start from its Source and follow it (and the street) to the gates! And, be aware that material items, like water, are affected by gravity and that...

Revelation 21:24-26
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
KJV

Edited April 20, 2017 by Retrobyter
to add some clues & fix my grammar!

[Keras]

11 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

You know, it's funny.  People can come on here with all kinds of ideas on how this or that is put together or comes out and wild speculation flourishes back and forth.

However, some people will try to stamp out ideas that don't work with their version of Scripture, like Heaven as our home, or the Rapture as an event.  Well, that hasn't worked out very well for them has it? 

No one I know has changed their thinking on either of those two subjects despite you and keras loudly, and persistently, trying to stamp them out.

People have changed their beliefs when all the scriptural truth is presented to them.  However some are so locked into their beliefs, they seem unable to even read anything that refutes their stance.

Things are working out for me just fine, I have an good and useful life. It is when the Lord arises and takes action, as He will, then we will face the test and those whose beliefs are found to be wrong, may have a very difficult time of it.

I don't like to oppose anyone, my task is just to present what the Prophetic Word actually says.   Your reaction, Marcus, is normal [if a little over the top!] from anyone who finds they cannot actually support their beliefs from scripture.  The big one, is do people ever really go to live in heaven?  And the truthful answer is that nowhere are we told that God will take all Christians there.  What we are told, in very many prophesies, that He will bless His holy people as they all live in the holy Land, as they fulfil their destiny of being God's witnesses and His Light to the nations.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

No, you're wrong because you haven't yet investigated all the facts.

Nonsense.  You're saying I'm wrong because I don't accept your facts.  I looked at your webpage.  It's wrong in my opinion.  The first "fact" I don't accept from your website is naming the Man in Linen as definitely being Gabriel.  The second "fact" I don't accept is that all of Daniel 11 has been fulfilled.  That is NOT a "fact", it is your opinion which you think is right.

Again - I am not wrong because you think you are right.  You think you are right, and yet: I think you are wrong.  So, you just think I am wrong.  I think I am right.  Right and Wrong cannot be determined by us, because the truth of the matter is not fully to be known.  We both could be wrong.  But we cannot both be right.

Now that we have gone over these semantical conditions ad nauseam, maybe we can over specific points rather than some broad brushed bias you have against any notion of a particular verse relating to the anti-Christ.